Qiway

You called me and the system I teach out in a right wing thread. In your first message here you accused me of piracy, in my books that means I’m being accused of stealing/thief. Then you don’t like it when I show how can one master copyright an art when another published it half a century earlier? Even though I’m in the lineage of both. Don’t drop accusations especially trying to lump me and the system in a right wing thread (dirty tactics to tarnish someone’s reputation and the lineage masters) and then use the “last message and I’m out tactic”. Be responsible for what you say if you’re calling someone out. If you don’t want a simple one message response then simply don’t call someone out as a thief. Maybe we can agree to disagree and shake on it. Unless you decide to publicly call me out as a thief again. Wishing you the best on your path 🙏

Your over a dozen interactions start with an insult and then you end with “this is a one off thing, I’m out”. Then I politely reply and you follow up with an insult and claim I’m the one dragging the conversation. And if I’m lucky you won’t end your message with a following insult. Same cycle over and over. Mods step in to stop the attacks, as I won’t steep to that level. This time I found myself being called a thief and irresponsible in a huge random post (Right Wing post?). Back to the topic. Maybe if @Sean vetted people (as suggested by past teachers who have left) then maybe we wouldn’t have this “bullshit”. For example, my full identity as well as address of home/clinical qigong clinic is on this forum. The only thing missing is a phone number. I would present myself exactly how I would in my clinic. Anonymous accounts allow people to do things they wouldn’t do when their identity is visible and credibility on stake. Hopefully something like that would wean out most of the problems.

To Admins/Mods, Some users may attempt to contact you to delete this thread under piracy. Master Liang Shifeng taught Spontaneous Five Animal Play Qigong in the early 1980’s. Some have the misconception that this style “belongs” to Master Liang Shifeng and that automatically means it’s copyrighted. Meanwhile Master Hu Yao-zhen (1879-1973), wrote a book titled "Wu Qin Xi" (Five Animal Frolics) in the 1940's with the specific spontaneous five animal method that I posted detailed. And taught it for a long time before the 1940s. I trained in both lineages, second generation of Master Liang and a third generation of Master Hu. How could someone claim Master Liang Shifeng (started to teach it in the early 1980’s) owns this practice when Master Hu wrote the book with the method in question in the 1940’s (and taught it many years prior to the publishing of that book)? Please carry out independent research before taking action based on the opinion of one person’s claim (including mine). Please PM me if you require further information. Thank you 🙏

To Admins/Mods, Master Liang Shifeng taught Spontaneous Five Animal Play Qigong in the early 1980’s. Some have the misconception that this style “belongs” to Master Liang Shifeng and that automatically means it’s copyrighted. Meanwhile Master Hu Yao-zhen (1879-1973), wrote a book titled "Wu Qin Xi" (Five Animal Frolics) in the 1940's with the specific spontaneous five animal method that I posted detailed. And taught it for a long time before the 1940s. Master Hu even helped coin up the term “Qigong”. I trained in both lineages, second generation of Master Liang and a third generation of Master Hu. How could someone claim Master Liang Shifeng (started to teach it in the early 1980’s) owns this practice when Master Hu wrote the book with the method in question in the 1940’s (and taught it many years prior to the publishing of that book)? Please carry out independent research before taking action based on the opinion of one person’s claim (including mine). As this isn’t the topic of this thread, to keep on track please PM me if you require further information. Thank you 🙏

I have already put up a HUGE warning that people with Qi deviation already should not use this system to fix it. Instead go and see a Clinical Qigong Therapist as any self taught system will make it worse, not just this one. The rest is people telling a teacher how to present their lineage practice based on their experiences from other systems. Then people wonder why a lot of well known teachers refuse to participate on this forum. If you really feel the need then maybe you should indiscriminately dig up every single topic with a shared practice posted on this forum and get them to post a disclaimer. Or maybe ask the mods to delete them all if they don’t have a disclaimer instead of picking on just this one. If the Tao Bums admins or mods come up with a default disclaimer then of course I will adhere to that, but for now this practice is well presented. I’m breaking this cycle of having to constantly repeat myself, no matter whatever new way you come up with to waste my time. Take up any issues with the mods, I’m sure they would have been on it already if it was an issue or will do. Sincere questions from others welcome 🙏

I would also like to say that if someone was to be injured from these instructions, I would be more concerned with helping them rather than hide behind a disclaimer. However in this day and age any alternative therapy practitioner must follow strict legislation and that is being followed. If anyone should be concerned about my legality that would be my insurance and those enforcing government legislation.

As a physical and online business, it has already been checked by a lawyer and everything run by insurance. I may have misread the online communication but your tone seems to comes across as interrogation/attack rather than a fellow Tao Bum taking time from their day to genuinely offer legal advise from a place of concern and kindness.

Thank you for respectfully offering to start that in another topic. I’m interested.

And I wasn’t using diversionary tactics, I was responding to your comment about Qi deviation being a beast by detailing my experience how I tackle such issues and how I wouldn’t put anything out there that would cause such things from my training experience. Now I’ve answered your issues about legality above. Anything else?

The disclaimer is worded as recommended by the NHS (the official medical organisation in the UK) and by my public liability insurance. That’s how it works for alternative health practitioners (acupuncturists, chiropractors...) in the UK. We have to use the exact words to comply with legislation and insurance. I am insured as a Clinical Qigong Therapist as my full time profession under UK Law.

Disclaimer: “Hu Yaozhen Qi Clinic offers services that belong in the complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) sector. They do not serve as a substitute for a doctor’s medical advice, examination, diagnosis or treatment.” That is the disclaimer used in everything I do and part of my terms and conditions before people commit to anything coming from me. My website is in the original post but not everyone may see the disclaimer, so thank you for pointing it out. Now will every thread that contains a shared practice will follow up with a disclaimer? I have had my share of dealing with Qi deviation and would not put out anything there that from my experience would cause harm. Below is my background of my clinical qigong. During the 20th century Master Hu Yaozhen helped coin up the term “Qigong” and “Medical/Clinical Qigong”, and then opened the very first Clinical Qigong Healing Hospital in Beijing, China. Master Hu earned the title “Father of Modern day Qigong” and three generations on Master Hu’s legacy thrives through the work of the Hu Yaozhen Qi Clinic. Regardless of my experience, I always keep a beginners mind and open to answer any concerns raised.

That is your opinion from your experience, below is my opinion as an instructor in that specific art and as a Clinical Qigong Therapist. Or just as in any style of Qigong, the Qi will begin the healing process... Any style in any written/book or video format can cause healing or harm. Based on the amount of books/videos out there, the harms seems to be pretty low. Personally I have seen more harm in beginners via incorrect practice of martial qigong such as iron palm/body than health/medical qigong. Overall I have seen more sports based injuries than qigong based injuries.

I can vouch for Jenny Lamb’s dvd and years ago she very kindly shared teachings that involved direct contact with Immortal Teachers for absolutely free. That said the energetics of each spontaneous qigong differ greatly. With moving forms you see the differences visually with spontaneous styles you cannot visually see the difference. Even Spontaneous Five Animal Play differs greatly. For example the one saved, compiled and readjusted by Liang Shifeng in the 1980s differs greatly to the one taught decades earlier by Hu Yaozhen (1879-1973). Then there are arts with foundations based in spontaneous qigong (that utilise Stillness, Movement and Spontaneous). So the chi is fired up to specific standards set out by the past Masters. Meaning we don’t settle for sensations such as tingling or warmth, the internal circulation must be so strong that it moves your body. So in those arts if the meridians in the arms are truly open then as soon as the practitioner enters the Qi State, the arms will immediately start to move on their own as the flow of Qi is that strong. Once all orbits open naturally then the practitioner may harness the chi to perform classical forms. I always tell people to go with the one that calls out to them, they will get a feeling or calling.

Exactly what I expected after privately assessing what went wrong here. Of all the Qi deviation I have seen in clinic, most are caused by practitioners of genuine systems who decide to teach when they have not trained as a Teacher. Sudden strong transmission of Qi + not being able to correctly energetically align a person = trouble. This case requires direct intervention and had akasuna123 started from the free instructions not only would they have saved a fortune (even when I charge its only a fraction of what they paid!) but be on a completely different healing journey. akasuna123 asks for the details of his situation to remain confidential so I will not delve who this “Master” was nor go into detail. Good Teacher or gentle self practice from the well written official English script that went through hundreds of recent trails by Liangs students prior to release in written format, equals steady balanced growth. https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/47557-free-hua-tuo’s-spontaneous-five-animals-play-qigong -zi-fa-wuqinxi-dong-gong/ One of the reasons I took on the responsibility of this lineage in clinic is because I was tired of seeing Qi deviation caused by advance students (even those who learnt directly in China) teaching when not going through the Teacher and Healer training.

Exactly what I expected after privately assessing what went wrong here. Of all the Qi deviation I have seen in clinic, most are caused by practitioners of genuine systems who decide to teach when they have not trained as a Teacher. Sudden strong transmission of Qi + not being able to correctly energetically align a person = trouble. This case requires direct intervention and had akasuna123 started from the free instructions not only would they have saved a fortune (even when I charge its only a fraction of what they paid!) but be on a completely different healing journey. akasuna123 asks for the details of his situation to remain confidential so I will not delve who this “Master” was nor go into detail. Good Teacher or gentle self practice from the well written official English script that went through hundreds of recent trails by Liangs students prior to release in written format, equals steady balanced growth. https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/47557-free-hua-tuo’s-spontaneous-five-animals-play-qigong -zi-fa-wuqinxi-dong-gong/ One of the reasons I took on the responsibility of this lineage in clinic is because I was tired of seeing Qi deviation caused by advance students (even those who learnt directly in China) teaching when not going through the Teacher and Healer training.