lessdaomorebum

I think you need a katana to do that? JimD: "So, let's have a show of hands from anybody who is willing to tell us how they have used their Chi, and what did that feel like. Please show examples for me." Excellent!

His last two posts (preceding your first one) have left me asking the same question . . .

You must be a friend of Jim's.

One of the things that impressed me with Goodman in the Mercola interview was when he talked about how he didn't start out with a theory of how these things should be, but rather shaped the theory out of what he came up with in addressing his own back issues. He had been a personal trainer for years, a body builder, and was then in chiropractic school, but he went beyond what he had learned. Another thing that impressed me was when he said it wasn't a cure all (though it seemed maybe he was paying lip service to that). I have had lots of different body workers work on me. There is a strong tendency for them (and doctors, nurses, chiropractors, et cetera) to work from theory alone, especially since they don't seem to realize that the clients they can't help leave them not because of reasons within the client (they generally blame the client), but because the body worker is unable to help them. As I have said before in different words, I understand that if something has worked for 99 people there is a strong temptation to think it must work the same for number 100, especially when it is one's profession (and so one feels the need to have an answer). Resist that temptation; take problem client's as a gift from your guardian angel of body work; they are there to help you grow as a body worker.

Well, forget it then! As mentioned, I have felt chee-like sensations before. When I would do tai chi, every few weeks or months I would feel something running along my right temple and eye, or right upper lip, or right calf and ankle. Can't seem to remember the left side doing any of this. I would relax and tune in to it, but nothing more would ever come of it. Sudden loud noises make me react like I have PTSD or something, and a weird, powerful sensation will shoot down both arms, sort of as if all the blood is rushing to the fingertips (but it's not a blood thing, rather like a nerve thing). Perhaps that is chee, but that is all there is to it in terms of feelings. These sorts of things are limited in scope, short or momentary in duration, and I have not been able to get anything more out of them (regarding Cheya's suggestion of Meredith).

Has someone stolen Jim's account?

Say hello to your dog.

Thank you again for your kind advice. I started the 30 day challenge 30 days ago. While I can not say "Praise Jesus, I'm healed!", I do find it beneficial enough that I am continuing with it. I have been adding in some of the remaining nine exercises in his book Foundation. His take on the lunge is very promising. Right now his exercises and my thoracic area are not getting along well. The reason I am continuing is to see if Goodman's material can win over my thoracic area. I think it is possible. For folks who might wonder what this is, the 30 day challenge is here. Other videos by him on the founder are here (easier) and here (more advanced). He has other videos on his Youtube channel where he teaches two other exercises. There is a lengthy interview with Joe Mercola, followed by a detailed trial workout with some interesting information (here is the workout by itself). He sells a two DVD set of his exercises. If I don't delete my account here, I will report back in a couple months on whatever progress I have been able to make with Goodman's material. It definitely has potential. Thank you again, Cheya. Juice and tai chi ruler are future projects.

It is amazing how people like Yamu, and his student Brian, and many other persons on this thread, come only to offer their opinion without addressing the concerns I have raised, often blatantly saying things that demonstrate that they have not listened (one of Michael's favorite words) to what I have clearly written (and blue eyed snake thinks my cup is full!). If I get some time, maybe I will collect these in one post. Try these (mostly) new ones: Some teachers insist you must feel chee, otherwise you are wasting your time. Richard Clear in Tennessee is one of those. Their argument is how can you direct chee or heal another if you can not sense it. Many teachers say just do the exercises and who cares what you feel. Many people claim to use energy, but some chee gong teachers say that they often encounter such people who can not in fact project one iota of chee. It is so easy to fool oneself, as I have explained here more than once already. Many people say bone marrow washing is a must to fully save up your hard work with chee. Others don't teach it at all and talk only of the dantyen. Some teachers use microcosmic orbit from the beginning, even in books and videos; others insist that it is an advanced technique and extremely dangerous if done incorrectly. You folks really should try to read my posts. Offhand, I can only rememeber Cheya and Marblehead attempting to answer my actual questions/issues. Some others have offered chee exercises or general advice (which is also appreciated). Many have talked as if they are just writing their general opinion without having read what I wrote. It is bizarre as I reread the thread wondering where I went wrong to get so many odd replies. I am trying hard to see myself as the one who is in error, but people recommend, by way of analogy, that I eat more eggs when I have already said that I love eggs and eat them every day. It just boggles my mind. In fact, I have gotten zero useful information relating to chee gong on this thread (unless Cheya's tai chi ruler works for me, but that is a future project).

I met a serious internal arts guy many years ago who was studying with Ron Lew, and had great things to say about him. When I was in the Bay Area for an internal arts camp, some locals at the camp had heard of Ron Lew and his Tibetan qigong/neigong. He had a reputation as quite the wizard. A search on TDB turns up nothing. I see he has four DVDs here: http://www.chi-energy.com/ Doesn't say anything there about classes or seminars. Anyone have any first hand experience with him or his system and wish to comment? Thanks!

I don't mean to hijack your hijack, but this reminds me of one of two woo-woo experiences I had back when I was doing tai chi gong ho many years ago. I was on the upper floor of a set of racketball courts, where the open window is, sitting and waiting for a court to be free so I could do my "wax on, wax off" routine (as people referred to tai chi when I did it out on a nearby green space). There were a couple of actual racket ball players waiting too. We chatted a little, and tai chi was discussed. They were polite, but clearly thought tai chi was for pussies (if you will pardon my French). Suddenly, a ball came whizzing through the window a foot or two from my head and in clear view of these two gentlemen. Without thinking my arm went up (it went up, not I extended it), and I caught the ball. Their attitude changed completely, and I was very surprised as well.

I neither felt qi nor was turned on. The getting turned on part is not a problem, but the qi part is. Folks, as I have said before, if it were so simple as doing some basic exercise, why would I have made this thread? But thank you for trying

The bat part is the easiest to explain if you talk to your physics teacher. The lasting effects of such silliness in general has been written about in a book by an American student of Shaolin. The monks pay a very heavy price for their antics over time; it ruins their bodies and brains. So much for the 'protection' of chee. Do your homework before you hurt yourself. Look at the soft touch knockout artists (George Dillman and others) you can find on Youtube. They have been proven fake. People who don't know them can't be affected. They've tried. The number of fakes in this field (intentional and unintentional) is amazing, so it is all fake to me until someone can explain it. Why? Otherwise I can show you a magic show and say it is real. I certainly don't know how magicians do their tricks. It looks real to me. It really does. I have zero proof that a magician is not really sawing someone in half or making them disappear, so it must be real! Natural phenomena are one thing; stuff humans do is another; humans are a wily bunch! Many in China have been scammed by fake qi masters.

From the first page of this thread I keep thinking of the zen story where the master points at the moon and the pupil looks at the master's finger. We can quote zen stories at each other like arguing theologians, but that does not address the topic of this thread at all. In my country we have a saying (okay, it's Bruce Lee): my way is not your way, and your way is not my way. "It works for me, so it must work for you!" "If I can do it, anyone can do it!" That sort of sentiment is narcissism, thinking everyone is the same as us. Even Western medicine is slowly starting to realize that even powerful drugs work better for some people than others (and some seemingly not at all). And as I mentioned in my OP, while craniosacral therapy has been learned by more than 125,000 people in 110 countries, even the institute that is responsible for that teaching says that some people can't feel the craniosacral rhythm. Again, look to my early examples of music and art lessons, that some people are tone deaf or can't seem to draw a dot on the paper. As they say in someone else's country, 因人而異。

Sure, for example your teacher dropped out after one arrogant post. You call that a teacher? Like you, he offered nothing constructive. At least that saved me one more teacher I didn't have to look into as a possibility. Why not address my questions rather than address me? Could it be that you realize I am on to something? Do you actually think the videos are legitimate? Watch how out of sync they are, how unconnected master and student are in their movements. Did you not notice the "contributors" themselves disagreeing vociferously? Anyway, people typically drop out of threads. I know I do; I say my peace and move on, but since this thread is mine, I have stayed Did you not read my post (you said you read the whole thread) where I pointed out the fact that teachers disagree on even the most basic or important aspects of qigong, often saying X is harmful or nonexistent or a waste of time while another school says X is the best? That is why I have made analogies with weight lifting, drawing, piano, etc. What other subject (even tarot card reading or astral projection) has such wide disagreement among adherents? Maybe qi is real. I am still asking the question, but replies such as yours are of no help to anyone. Read your reply, please. It is arrogance and nothing else. You didn't say, "Hey, try this technique or contact this teacher" as some nice people have done. Your whole lengthy reply is your godlike judgment of me. Nothing else is in there.

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz = 26 Must be a really bad number

I am not into the martial arts, and don't like violence, but try some of these. They are actually related to dawei's bizarre comments. Note how out of sync the teacher's and student's movements are. Lama Dildo Or begin this after the one minute mark. They need to rehearse more, just like the above two videos. I guess it don't work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0DXOsfIv4E Expert fisherman Watch any aikido demonstration, including by Ueshiba, in slow motion. Pure dance, doing what the master wants. Lest you think I am simply a skeptic of anything I can't do, contrast the above with some straightforward tai chi push stuff, clearly explained and in slow motion.

I will try this in the coming days, especially since Marblehead said it turned him on! Karma again? Basically you are saying qi is the NBA and it helps an awful lot to be tall?

Jim D.: 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection 2) You asked how is it important to feel chi. See below. dawei: I am not sure if the following is what you were saying or the opposite: if ten (or even two) supposed chee healers come up with different diagnoses, then there is a problem. One possibility is that one or both of them do not have the skills they think they have. The other possibility is that chee does not exist (in which case they are both fooling themselves). I covered this in a different way a little earlier in this thread when talking about how different chee gong teachers disagree _completely_ on some fundamental matters of qigong. I am here to get to the bottom of this once and for all (from my perspective). If I understand your term 'localized understanding' correctly, it is just mental masturbation. Bruce Frantzis writes about meditating out to the stars, but how would he know? How does he know that sort of thing isn't just a form of mental illness? Meditation was shown to have clear health benefits decades ago, and many times since, but not meditating out to the stars. Herbert Benson, in what I Iater read was an ethically controversial manner, found that Tibetan monks could do things that could not be explained by science, such as drying wet towels on their body in cold weather or raising the temperature on their finger to as high as 113 F (I think that was the number) without budging their core temperature. OK you damn qi-ites (just kidding), let's figure out if chee is real or not. Can you do something with it or can't you? Heal my back and I'll sing your praises and those of chee. Lots of people out there supposedly do distance healing. Lots more supposedly do in person healing (less convenient as I currently have no travel budget). I become less open-minded about qi by the day since everyone is all talk and everyone has a different story . . .

Can the OP give an example of a "pure" system that is not made up of two or more systems?

The founder (田瑞生) died of liver cancer at age 68. Not a great advertisement for a chee gong style. He supposedly did healing, but apparently did not teach healing. It is unclear if anyone is around who can teach the third and final level (it's not meditation, but rather hand/finger postures). It is one of 14 banned chee gong styles in the PRC (Falun being a 15th, but in its own category). EDIT: See page two; Earl Grey says he IS alive. Who knows?

The CIA supposedly used astral projection. Some guy wrote a book on it. I think the Department of Defense has something to do with chee, but I haven't gotten around to watching that documentary (Jon Ronson).

Celibacy is an unnatural perversion. I don't know what earthing is. Sun gazing causes blindness. Working out I did an awful lot of in the past. Yours was another in a long line of arrogant, condescending, presumptive posts on this thread. If people would read what I wrote, I think there would be less of such posts, but they read what they want to see.

Celibacy, NONE of your links work (from page 1).

The video is private. Where would one find it now?