Prasanna

I think finding the path is more a grace of God than a conscious choice on our own. I say this because, in the world, many lead their life the way they want but never get into a conscious seeking of the truth and realities of life. According to Hindu belief, the path is for those who have understood the limitations of worldly living that is more of sensuality and materialism. Some are alert and understand that their quest of truth needs a different direction than mere sensual indulgence and materialistic aggrandizement. Such people endeavour into the spiritual path trying to know what exactly is the real cause behind their life and experiences. For such seekers also it is grace of God or what some call good luck due to past karmas that propel them into the quest of truth and realities of life. this is how a great Buddha or or a great Ramana Maharishi or a great Jesus Christ came into existence.

Yes love others and compassion certainly encompasses other animals too, at least in the context of Hinduism. The priest class Brahmins do not take non vegetarian foods comprising Egg, fish, poultry, meat and other products that is derived by mercilessly killing other beings. True Love is in recognizing or identifying the one enlivening principle, God or Divinity that is supporting the life of all the beings from within the subtlest core of all the beings. True love is in revelling in the welfare of all the beings, not in perceiving them to be food products. The Western outlook of seeing birds and animals as poultry and cattle meant for slaughtering to cater to their hunger and taste buds is very gross and something abominable.

Yes love others and compassion certainly encompasses other animals too, at least in the context of Hinduism. The priest class Brahmins do not take non vegetarian foods comprising Egg, fish, poultry, meat and other products that is derived by mercilessly killing other beings. True Love is in recognizing or identifying the one enlivening principle, God or Divinity that is supporting the life of all the beings from within the subtlest core of all the beings. True love is in revelling in the welfare of all the beings, not in perceiving them to be food products. The Western outlook of seeing birds and animals as poultry and cattle meant for slaughtering to cater to their hunger and taste buds is very gross and something abominable.

Here I take self-love to mean selfish love and love for others to mean unselfish love. These two are not the absolute love. Absolute love is like how Lord Shri Krishna has defined in the Twelfth Chapter of Bhagavad Gita. There is a whole chapter dedicated to devotion or true love. The first and foremost quality of a true Devotee of God is "Non hatred towards every being" (Adveshta sarva Bhuthaanaam). In the same Chapter XII, earlier He defines absolute love as that in which the person revels in the welfare of all the beings of the world (Sarva Bhutha hithe rathaaha). The entire spiritual effort is not limited to love, but in growing up even beyond universal love and realizing the absolute Truth that "I am God" (Aham Brahmaasmi). What does this mean? This means that real service to humanity is in Self Realization or in absolute effacement of our little self or Ego. It is the very purpose of human birth, the highest of birth in the whole of creation, to achieve Self Realization or Realizing our original and true Supreme Self or Godhood within ourselves. This is the crux of Vedanta philosophy. We are not this limited, restricted, weak, embodied personality comprising the Body, Mind, Intellect and Ego, but we are the supreme self or the God within the subtlest core of our being which is the enlivening principle that supports all our perceptions, actions, emotions, thinking and and individual ego. Give up your false identification with the superficial material layers and rise in stature by recognizing and realizing your true Divinity or Godhood within. You are nothing else but God, and certainly not this troublesome and fallacious egoistic existence.

We normally use the terms Existence and Life very casually. What do they mean actually? What factors determine existence or life. I would like your ideas on this. I would also like to have an in depth analysis into this topic of discussion.

Great question. Dreams are just a projection of our Mind that arise from undigested thoughts of the waking state of consciousness. Normally as we evolve spiritually, our dreams become less in number since our ego and desire ridden Mind starts getting reduced gradually. In Vedanta philosophy, our waking state itself is considered a much realistic dream, not the absolute reality. the absolute Reality is the God within us and our spiritual quest is finding that God within ourselves through the spiritual practices that I have explained. As we evolve spiritually, we would be free from disturbing thoughts like stress, tension, worry, anxiety, depression, anger and also dreams. This can be taken as a mark of spiritual development.

I have a different idea about life. Not only that, there are different spiritual stages of development and seeing miracles in everything is the penultimate, not the ultimate. this is because the purpose of spirituality is to merge one with the Divine which is pure and absolute Miracle by nature. If we see a miracle different from it, then it means our ego is still functioning to recognize a miracle other than the pure and absolute miracle God. But I agree that we need to go through each and every stage step by step to cross over to the ultimate experience of absolute Self Realization or God Consciousness. Till Self Realization, the aspirant's attitude will be that of a disinterested interest in the happening of the world, just like a drop of water on the lotus leaf which is detatchedly attached to the leaf.

Problems become real problems when we don't know the technique to solve them. In philosophy, we use the term "Objectivity" to signify better problem solving capabilities. Objectivity is nothing but the rule of the conscientious thinking intellect over the emotional Mind. The entire philosophy of Vedanta is about developing this intellect and achieving the absolute objectivity called God Realization or God Consciousness which is the ultimate purpose of this human birth and human existence for any individual. There are clear cut spiritual practices addressing to the particular demands of each and every individual depending upon his basic constitution of the personality. Broadly speaking, the more physical a person is, the person needs the path of action (Karma Yoga) which constitutes performance of duties without expectation of results, selfless service, sacrificial actions, etc. If the person is more emotional, the person needs more of the path of devotion (Bhakthi Yoga) which constitutes non hatred towards all the beings of the world, revelling in the welfare of all the beings of the world, practice of universal love, unconditioned kindness, impartial friendship, compassion, gratitude towards the Divine Providence for the gift of life and daily experiences, gratitude towards the spiritual master, spiritual personalities, noble benefactors for their contribution to our evolution, forgiveness, etc. If the person is more intellectual, the person needs more of the path of knowledge (Gnana Yoga) which constitutes discrimination of the real from the unreal, waking up at 4.00 A.M in the early morning to study the scriptures, reflect, contemplate and meditate optimally, practice of introspection of the days proceedings for just Ten minutes before going to sleep in the night without endeavouring into personal criticism or analysis of the events. These spiritual practices will make us more objective and render us more meditative so that we can lead a purposeful life of internal bliss and external harmony with the society and nature.

Beautiful explanation. Thank you for making things simple and clear to everyone.

>>> If a God made this, then who made God ? If the answer is that no one made God, then it stands to reason that no one made this. As no God has been found, nor is one needed, we can go with what is already and have no further regressions.<<< I don't understand this, first of all it is very naive to believe that there is a separate creation when God is defined as everything. Whoever sees the creation needs to find the answer on their own. If you believe that God made world, then you fail to recognise that God is both immanent and as well as transcendent simultaneously. It is just like the dreamer is the source, cause and support of the Dream, the dream world, dream objects, dream beings and dream experiences. Just as the dream world vanishes when the dreamers wakes upto the waking state and realizes that the individual he/she alone is responsible for the dream world, dream objects, dream beings and dream experiences, the waker must realize it is God and god and god alone which is the reality underlying our waking state of consciousness. Our waking state in which we claim wrongly about creation is God's projection. You are nothing but that God from within your personality. Upanishad says realize that "That Thou Art" and not this limited, material aspects of body mind, intellect and Ego that goes through the cycle of births and deaths from one experience to another. The waking world is just another more realistic dream projection of your own God or supreme Self, just another flimsy imagination.

I don't understand what is your difficulty in understanding the two different terms consciousness and conscious. Consciousness is sometimes used to refer pure consciousness or Supreme Self or God, the very enlivening principle or reality that is supporting our life, physical body, Mind, Intellect, ego, life's various experiences, existence etc. In this context, consciousness is the enlivening principle that is the source, causes and support of life and life's experiences. We are conscious of the world only because of the consciousness or God. The thing is you have taken things for granted in life. The Divinity is so much splashed everywhere that it is indistinguishable unless you develop objectivity. You are using your body as a machine when you say shut your eyes and the world will disappear. You fail to recognize the importance of the beautiful function called sight and you fail to question about what is supporting this fascinating functionality called eyesight? Philosophy is questioning every single aspect od life and finding answers, not just taking things or life for granted which most of us do ignorantly.

Life has meaning or no meaning depends on one's level of Self unfoldment. If a person believes in the supreme Self or God, then one realizes that the world of Time, Space and Causation that he experiences is just a projection of his ego and Mind. How much ever meaningful and purposeful the experiences of the world may be, they are only relative/comparative or they are all still in the realm of duality or pairs of opposites. The spiritual effort according to Vedanta is Self realization or crossing over the duality. For such evolved souls (Self Realized souls), there are no personal likes or dislikes whatsoever. Personal likes and dislikes holds the person to the terrestrial realm and stands as an impediment in the spiritual path. Ego and selfish desires are inverted Divinity that do not help us recognize the underlying truth or Supreme Self or Reality.

I don't understand this. Why have maharajahs and castes come in the picture? I have just shared what spirituality stands for. Can you please explain it more elaborately?

List of "Near-enemies": 1) Ignorance, 2) Ego, 3) Desire, 4) Selfishness, 5) Pursuing materiality and sensuality as an end themselves in life.

A true spiritual aspirant must only focus on self refinement and never ever think about judging the world or humanity or their evolution. One will be totally misguided if one ventures in judging the evolution of the world.

Can everyone pursue spirituality? Are there any specific qualifications to take to spiritual pursuit? This question may arise for any person irrespective of whether they want to take up the spiritual pursuit in life or not. The truth is anybody can take to spiritual path irrespective of their present condition and past life, provided they are interested in spiritual path. Everybody who have a sincere seeking to know the truth and Realities of life can take to spiritual pursuit. Normally, if a person has gone through some minimal experience of life, like having led a life up to his early adulthood can take to spirituality. This is because one should be equipped with sufficient personal experience of worldly life to be able to compare and conclude on the merits and demerits, pros and cons of worldly living, so that it is easy to learn the spiritual lessons. It is interest, inclination, and inspiration that matters than anything else to take to the spiritual path.

Namaste, Novice Monk. I saw your post and see one contradiction from my understanding of life's philosophy. The thing is, one must be sincere to life in whichever way he is trying to live life, so that life lessons can be learnt from experiences which is essential for gaining wisdom of life. Obviously the contradiction is neither are you living a worldly extroverted life, nor are you sincerely leading a spiritual life. This is because of lack of clarity in your objectives of life. If you continue this way of practicing meditation and simultaneously keep enjoying sensual pleasures, there is going to be absolutely no progress, since either of them cancel each others effect when you keep doing both them simultaneously. If you sincerely want to pursue a spiritual life, then you must first start with fixing a higher, selfless and absolute goal called Self Realization beyond your selfish sensual, materialistic and egoistic extroverted pursuits. These extroverted pursuits are what we call as worldly life and worldly pursuits. These keep you pitched to worldly realms where you don't see anything higher or purposeful beyond selfish sense gratification and ego boosting material success, as if they are an end in themselves. The real awakening can be initiated only when you start recognizing that these are futile efforts that do not bring the real pleasures or enjoyments or happiness or true success or genuine freedom that you unconsciously keep seeking through them continuously even after gratification of earlier desires and ambitions. This is because of the fallacy that we pitch our happiness and success onto the external world of objects, beings and experiences. This way no true happiness or peace of mind or success is possible since the moment one desire is gratified , the mind will pitch up the happiness or success on the next higher desire without recognizing the fact that this way nobody has ever achieved happiness or peace of Mind or true success. The nature of the Mind is that it keeps pitching up the desires higher and higher on either more quantity or better quality or a combination of better quality and more quantity. This is how our Mind plays havoc in our lives when we lead an indiscriminate extroverted life of licentious sensual indulgence and greedy materialistic pursuits, without higher ideals. If at all one wants to take to spirituality, this recognition is important, followed by pitching up of a selfless ideal like Self Realization, which is proclaimed by the scriptures as the ultimate purpose of human birth and human existence in this universe. It is not enough if one pitches up a selfless goal, but needs to follow it up with perseverance and consistency of purpose till the ideal is achieved. A higher ideal is an essential necessity to keep you away from bad activities that weaken you.

This is not a new concept in Indian Philosophy. This Theosis may be new , but what it means is very close to the Self Realization, God Realization or achieving God Consciousness of the Vedanta philosophy. In Vedanta, Adi Sankaracharya and Ramanujacharya have spoken in detail about this Divinization of humans. The entire spiritual philosophy of the so called Hinduism is very much about this Theosis. This is what is called as Moksha or Mukthi or Samadhi in which the human achieves oneness with the underlying God principle existing in the subtlest core of the personality in all the beings of the world. this is achieved through special and dedicated spiritual practices called a s Karma Yoga (Path of Action for the predominantly Physical or action oriented personalities), Bhakthi Yoga (Path of Devotion for the predominantly emotional people) and Gnana Yoga (Path of Knowledge for the predominantly Intellectual people). The spiritual practices of Karma, Bhakthi and Gnana yogas help in sublimating the selfish egoism and reducing the infinite desires of the individual personality. Thereafter, when the Mind is thus fully prepared and freed from desires and Ego, the seeker is advised to take up to the highest and ultimate spiritual practice of meditation by which the seeker attains God Realization or Self Realization. Meditation is defined as the concentration on a chosen thought or ideal or idol, to the exclusion of all the other thoughts. On completion of meditative practice the seeker becomes a full fledged Yogi or an enlightened person or what we commonly call as a Self Realized Soul. That is, only Divine consciousness and no more egoism and desires.

Vedanta says that we all beings are essentially the Divine God in the core of our personality. God's grace is always there. It is we humans who due to our egoism, selfishness, desires, likes and dislikes, attachments, neutralization, indiscriminate indulgence or over licentiousness, etc, fail to recognize the Constant grace of God. If not for the God, which is the very subtlest enlivening that is the source, cause and support of life and our life experiences like perceptions, actions, feelings and emotions, thinking and imaginations, can there be this beautiful creation and the experiences thereof. We lost our recognition of Divinity due to neutralization effect. The Divinity is splashed everywhere that we are not able to recognize it differently. Imagine a condition wherein you have hands, feet, brain, eyes, mouth, ears, skin, internal systems, tongue, etc. but there is no enlivening principle to support their existence and functioning, we will all be as good as being Dead or being in Coma. the fact that all these faculties and organs function meticulously for us to survive is forgotten since we use these taking them for granted. We realize their importance only when we fall ill, sick or lose one of those vital organs. Instead, we keep blindly chasing the infinite desires that the mind pitches selfishly and lose all the connection with our True Divine personality or original Divine identity within ourselves. This is the most pathetic condition of human life due to our conditioning that we are our Body, Mind, Intellect, and Ego and due to our constant involvement in the desire ridden and ego boosting Extroverted pursuits of sensuality and Materialism as an end in themselves.

Actually, the same question raised to my spiritual master will get a reply that "Avoid result orientation". Nobody can define the state of Self realization since it is not an experience that can be defined, but a transcendence to a different state of consciousness beyond the normal three states of Waking, Dream and deep sleep that the individual Jeeva goes through. In Self Realization, Jeeva recognizes its unity with the Paramathma and merges one with Paramathma, leaving its identity with the material aspects of body, mind, intellect and ego fully.

There are very many ways to Self Realization. I am talking about consciously taking to the spiritual pursuit and spiritual path for achieving Self Realization. There are very many instances where the worldly people have achieved Self realization by doing their duties in life. That is somewhat different from pitching up the ideal of Self Realization by taking to spiritual pursuit.

Let us take a simple example of a class in a school. there will be very many children with different characters and different inherent qualities. The teacher of the class takes lessons commonly to all the students. We will find that only the one's who listen and the one's who are interested in the subject taken ask doubts, clarifications and teachers help to understand the lesson better only to those who show interest, though all the students are equally important. The point here is that the scriptures are not discriminating or abandoning or shunning the people. The normal extroverted life is different in kind / type than the introverted spiritual pursuit. The caution is not to confuse the worldly people with our half baked knowledge and wisdom. If there is a sincere seeker who has naturally turned to spirituality, he is in the same frequency to relate to the spiritual master or guide. This kind of master - disciple relationship is beneficial for both. Whereas, when some spiritual enthusiast who has not even known the purpose of spirituality himself, tries to impose it forcefully onto the worldly people, it is farcical and ridiculous since there will not be any productive interaction in such cases. Not only that the interaction will be ineffective, it may injure and harm the innocent worldly people. That is the intention of the caution. Another interesting thing which I am reminded of and which I feel is relevant to add in this discussion is Isavasyopanishad. One of the verses says that there are two blinding paths in life. One is the extroverted worldly life of sensuality and materialism as an end in itself. The pleasure derived from such extroverted life is no doubt pleasurable, but it takes us as it were into blinding darkness. Blinding darkness is symbolic of ignorance. The Isavasyopanishad further says that there is greater blinding darkness symbolic of greater ignorance. This blinding darkness is an effect of revelling in spiritual enjoyments due to complacency and getting stagnated somewhere due to compromise of values and learning. The true mark of spiritual person is Self Realization. No sincere spiritual seeker should get caught up in the enjoyments of the spiritual practices which are of a very high quality than that of the worldly pleasures. Coming back to our main point of discussion, there are different stages of spiritual evolution or spiritual growth. Those who are extroverted and worldly have chosen a different path of life. And, unless they themselves are interested, it is a futile effort to impose spirituality as they will only oppose, reject and shun spirituality which is against their present value system in life. This is more harm to the worldly people than a help to them. You will see many Gurus coming up and creating big following. They too are gurus and there were great gurus in the past, in the present who are never even recognized as gurus. Love to fellow beings is certainly devotion to God. But spirituality doesn't end in recognition of the supreme God in all beings but in achieving the Self Realization that the Individual is nothing but God alone and not the material aspects of Body, mind, intellect, Ego and the resulting perceptions, emotions, thinking, actions, imaginations etc. The individual Jeeva merges one with the supreme Self or Paramathma or Brahman. There is no more duality. Above everything, spirituality is about one's own self unfoldment rather than reformation or correction of the world. Unless one reforms or refines himself fully, how can he or she correct the world. My guru says that even Christ in some period of time got caught up when he mingled with the masses beyond his capacity. he felt spirituall weakened because of over relating with the masses. A truly spiritual person neither wishes solitude nor shuns crowd. He is dispassionately passionate and disinterestedly interested in world and his own life. No more of craving desires and ego.

Everyone is part physical and part spirit. The physical part comprises of the organs of action, organs of perception, internal organs and the very many inner systems that sustain life. The spirit part may be further divided into mental layer, then the more subtle Intellectual layer, then the bliss sheath which is more subtler than the intellectual layer and then the ultimate spirit or god or Supreme Self which is the subtlest enlivening principle within the core of the being. The more subtler the layer, it is more pervasive over the grosser layer and has more control over the subtler layers. It is natural that only few people are considered worthy of pursuing spiritual education because only few would be prepared mentally to take up spiritual pursuits. Like any other subject of study like science or mathematics, spirituality too needs certain preparation before someone takes to spiritual pursuit. A minimal experience to understand or distinguish the pros and cons of worldly life, a honest seeking to find out the truth and realities behind human life, a certain amount of devotion, gratitude and surrender to the wise, noble and spiritually evolved people who are the true benefactors unlike the superficial, gross and physical friendships which only follows wealth or power or name or fame or position, luxury, comfort, etc. In Sanskrit language, we use a term Adhikaari to refer to those who are qualified with qualities essential for spiritual pursuit. A spiritual master must only share his wisdom to such Adhikaaris and not to every Tom, dick and Harry who he sees or meets. The general caution in the scripture is "Do not disturb the Minds of the ignorant". "Do not share the spiritual wisdom to disbelievers and those who cavil spirituality and religion.

Orion, Your topic for discussion says a lot about your wisdom of life. The choice of words is fantastic. Let's get right to the answer. What makes a thought or an action, an avoidance? And, what makes a thought or an action, a cultivation? Fundamentally speaking, it is a person's attitude that determines whether one is practicing avoidance or cultivation. The more selfless a person is in life, he finds no hurdles in life. Such a person deals even the greatest of challenge with proper sense of value along with appropriate sense of proportion. For such a person, there is no stopping since he keeps doing his duties perfectly without looking for rewards or fruits of action. The more selfish a person is, he is bound to suffer when he fails. Unlike this selfish person, the selfless person maintains equanimity and mental equipoise since he does not rejoice at success, nor does he unnecessarily get disappointed to grumble about failure. So what is exactly the cause of misery in life? It is simple to answer for even a beginner of spiritual study. Yes, it one's own 1) egoism and 2) desires of the Mind that play havoc in human life. How to get rid of these two bad elements that is causing us to lead a miserable life? Vedanta philosophy gives the solution. It is through Karma Yoga (Path of Action), Bhakthi Yoga (Path of Devotion) and Gnana Yoga (Path of Knowledge). These help in sublimating our Ego and in getting rid of the numerous desires of the world. Firstly, one must fix a higher, noble and selfless ideal like "Self Realization". Then one must work with dedication, perseverance and consistency of purpose till the life's ultimate goal of Self realization is achieved. One must avoid result orientation and complacency in the path. If you want to learn Vedanta philosophy try visiting the following website: www.vedantaworld.org There are lot of resources in English for you to easily find your true Divine Personality. "Know Thyself".

Orion, Your topic for discussion says a lot about your wisdom of life. The choice of words is fantastic. Lets get right to the answer. What makes a thought or an action, an avoidance? And, what makes a thought or an action, a cultivation? Fundamentally speaking, it is a person's attitude that determines whether one is practicing avoidance or cultivation. The more selfless a person is in life, he finds no hurdles in life. Such a person deals even the greatest of challenge with proper sense of value along with appropriate sense of proportion. For such a person, there is no stopping since he keeps doing his duties perfectly without looking for rewards or fruits of action. The more selfish a person is, he is bound to suffer when he fails. unlike this selfish person, the selfless person maintains equanimity and mental equipoise since he does not rejoice at success, nor does he unnecessarily get disappointed to grumble about failure. So what is exactly the cause of misery in life? It is simple to answer for even a beginner of spiritual study. Yes, it one's own 1) egoism and 2) desires of the Mind that play havoc in human life. How to get rid of these two bad elements that is causing us to lead a miserable life? Vedanta philosophy gives the solution. It is through Karma Yoga (Path of Action), Bhakthi Yoga (Path of Devotion) and Gnana Yoga (Path of Knowledge). These help in sublimating our Ego and in getting rid of the numerous desires of the world. Firstly, one must fix a higher, noble and selfless ideal like "Self Realization". Then one must work with dedication, perseverance and consistency of purpose till the life's ultimate goal of Self realization is achieved. One must avoid result orientation and complacency in the path. If you want to learn Vedanta philosophy try visiting the following website: www.vedantaworld.org There are lot of resources in English for you to easily find your true Divine Personality. "Know Thyself".