Pilgrim

Darn I forgot TWR does give a lot away for free. Here is one of his utube videos doing Guru Yoga practice. Not sure he uses the same phrase short on time but want you to see this Jonesboy. 😊

I would love to share it but these are courses on Ligmincha learning site one has to pay for. They include video, guided practices and written materials. I am sorry but sharing those things is forbidden and illegal also copyright stuf etc.... These things we are discussing are included in the Ngondro course. It is a very long course that some people do for the rest of their lives. It is very thorough and they have weekly group sessions via zoom led by a wonderful man and teacher John Jackson. Very personable I have spoken with him on the phone in private and I think with all your background and studies you would not only get a lot out of it but enjoy it as well. As you can see there are other courses there too. https://www.ligminchalearning.com/

I feel your pain Brother Buddhism has often left me scratching my head going Whisky Tango Foxtrot over!!! Repeat did not copy!!

Yes very much like this especially in six Lola’s practice with Shindla Odkar which involve purification of the three bodies and the six Lola’s or realms. At the end You merge with Shindla Odkar. There are many shared thing with Bon. But Bon is a bit different from what I can tell but more similar than not.

Good Morning, I learned of Guru Yoga from the Bon tradition, Specificly from TWR if you know who that is, I always mess up spelling the name. 😁 So Tenzin Wngyal Rinpoche or something like that He is a Tibetan Lama Ligmincha Learning. Anyway the analogy I use Is not mine when it comes to connecting Taprhitsa Spelling? He calls it out as a connection and likens it unto downloading software for your computer. In my experience it does feel that way.

Very true.

Thank you very much for such a wonderful explanation that was really something else. 🙏🏻👏🏼😁 I must backtrack just a bit. I wrote Consort practice is where it stops after coming from Kriya. What I should have said was Tummo came from Kriya and then the etheric consort to show how and then the joining and I think of this as Tantra. The thoughtful explanation you just gave most certainly does help, yes I see many, Many of my own Experiences reflected here. In Kriya we do not worship the Gurus but I must confess I have great love for them and a few in particular. If you do not mind could you lay it out sequentially in a linear fashion. For example I assume initiation is first followed by a basic practice followed by something else when and where do my experiences fit in and what comes next? Finally what is the end Dzogchen Chen? Thank you this will really help me understand Tantra and it’s place in things much better. We can continue in private if need be to avoid further thread drift.

To me Trust is a big notch up from certainty and confidence though both are part of what creates trust. Trust to me is sacred, it has a component of loyalty that goes beyond convenience and beyond fulfilling a desire or preventing loss. Trust is totally comprehended and known when it is gone when it is betrayed. Trust goes beyond recognition and familiarity with patterns and the security they will continue because nothing stays the same. Without some degree of faith Trust never gets a foothold, trust requires the self confidence to be naked and Allowing yourself to be afraid to take a chance. Forming trust takes guts, it ain’t for wimps.

Letting go does not mean we can not discuss other traditions, no not at all. The wine bottle was brought up, filling old wine bottles. I am suggesting new wine bottles be used so the flavor of the old wine not contaminate fresh water. Wine bottle meaning a fresh framework which is yours. I view you as a teacher always have. So if we are using words on a website I want yours from your realizations which are many. I am not a scholarly person so caparisons between traditions that do not match my experiences fail to really get my full attention. I do not care what has been written in the past, it does not matter.

Great question. For me it is what I have experienced and described. To me Tantra grew out of Kriya in its own. I also view Guru Yoga as not Tantra but something different. Maybe this is wrong? To me Guru Yoga is a connection to a more advanced being and your software gets updated and improved by doing so. As far as my unscholarly understanding of Tantra goes I stop at the consort practice which comes spontaneously and Is not visualized or done with another person. This I believe is the culmination of Tantra and the rest is where it blends with Buddhism and Bon. I may be wrong but Buddhism and Bon go way beyond Tantra. Maybe some one can help me put the whole thing together in a linear fashion I favor? For example where the pieces fit in?

Sorry Kar3n that’s my fault. No conflict present trying my best to show my support for Jeff and encourage his unique offerings to be given from his own framework. Sorry for taking it off topic.

Lol arrogant yeah well.... we all do that from time to time😉 As far as wine in old bottles hard to avoid disagreements when using other systems or traditions in comparison with original experiential knowing. Very hard to come across as humble when one is trying to make a point when resistance to the point comes up due to the flavor of the original contents of the bottle. You are trying to serve water out of Rum Barrels. Best methinks to start with fresh barrels IE: Framework And containment for ones realizations that can be shared. I know you prefer the direct experiential approach sharing presence and such but there is a problem with this. When the field is present for a congress of souls the minds of said souls, the emotions the stored samskaras blend. For example I am still working out my issues over a long time marriage which I ended due to betrayal. Of course as time goes on it is getting better. my point is that entering into a congress of souls or sharing presence also allows these issues to wash over into others even as there’s so to me. People can be deeply effected by this and not know why. It can manifest in conjunction with their own existing issues. This is why I say just because people can does not mean they should. Just like with puberty human beings become capable of making children, does not mean they should. It is better to wait for maturity. I think allot of people arrive at spiritual puberty and can before they should.:) Therefore in my opinion when having a congress of souls it should be with known practitioners and more mature ones not just the capable. I guess it can be argued if not through pain how does one grow an mature? The only answer I have to this is it can be done systematically but it should likely be between two souls at first one who is more mature and well versed and can disconnect others from a session and create a safe bubble of interaction. Now that is allot of work. You Jeff want to assist others. I know this is the case but in order to do so it is going to take letting go of comparisons and explaining from a position of fresh water barrels. Those who can will learn, those who are not attracted well okay so what anyhow there are many time worn paths they can tread. New does not mean invalid and old does not mean the best way. Those who are objective, those who can find value will. Those who can not where never yours to guide or assist anyway

Meant a new segment in your PPD. As for the rest under advisement of my lady will address in private. Will say this much time to step up to the plate and quit being humble!

No! No! No! you got it all wrong the demon looked like this

I agree. I also think we are all in the same page but describing it which is difficult to describe differently and within my describing you have brought it out very nicely indeed. So this is the benefit of conversation 😁

Just catching up li post by post and really do not want to go searching old posts for anything. May I ask you do me a favor and lay out your view in a linear fashion? I for one think it would be helpful and help further conversation in this thread. For example I remember years ago you had a system of 1 to 14 which was good. For that matter would you consider starting a PPD so you retain control and spell out your self founded tradition? Just to be clear to others Self Founded is not meant to be derogatory lineages have to start somewhere do they not?

In my experience the one who has something to offer and aid you with comes to you when you are ready. She teaches directly and you learn directly then you both reach the level you are capable of and then you grow into it. While you are growing into it your teacher leaves you so you can.

Damn well said bravo sir 👏🏼

You are welcome for me sharing is the best way to explain. You are quite right about sequencing and how it all blends. I owe you an apology at first I thought you did not get these thing but now I see from your experiential replies you most certainly do. I apologize for that. In fact I see we are more like brothers in comprehension of these matters and appreciate having someone to discuss with. Thank you very much. Becoming the Samadhi is what is needed 😁 very well said. Fantastic replies from you some of the best ever from anyone!

Yes and pointless unless one starts making the leaps and starts getting it. We do this in Kriya by entering Samadhi states where direct realization and awareness happens. Not all at once as some might say but to our individual capacity and then have to grow into it.

In this instance while an analogy to be certain it is also being used to describe a function of being or in my way of thinking a storage array on a server. You have a storage medium a hard drive for simplicities sake. What ever is written to the hard drive remains in some form. When you delete something the area on the drive containing the data you desire to delete gets marked with an omicron symbol. This in term tells the operating system this are is available to be overwritten yet the data is still whole and present yet hidden from the end user. Over time the data gets overwritten and more difficult to recover even with forensic tools. This is why when we decommission servers in the industry we go beyond Even DOD level government level wiping performing writes overwriting all the sectors in a drive multiple times with randomization. So the chalk board board which is all people knew makes a good analogy as most of us went to school and were exposed to the chalk board. The chalk board also explains a functioning of a real portion of our spiritual anatomy. In this case presented by Ilumarian the data is the karmic traces the substantive media the traces reside upon are not physical as even the traces are not physical but are indeed the chalkboard of her explanation and the hard drive of my explanation. Did you know even with wiping a drive you can still recover data with an electron microscope? Talk about hard to get rid of whew! Furthermore since we are dealing with non physical reality of our very being it does go to all is consciousness even the parts we are unaware of because like the storage array on a server the office worker has no need to be aware of what is going on with it only that it functions. This is indeed a level of consciousness and as we all know in order to access different levels we must set our tuning fork to the same harmonic and then our ability to be aware in and if this state of consciousness is achieved. The purpose of what is shared in Khandro is to recognize this and upon recognizing it realizing that there is only one way to get rid of the karmic traces. As long as a server operating system exists, as long as the drive exists the traces and the data are present in one form or another fractured marked for deletion buried under layers and layers of jibberish still it persists. We can then guess we’ll what happens if I take a torch and melt the storage medium into slag. Well physically this will work but what is discussed here is not so easily transmuted. In fact transmutation will not work. This is why it is said Tantra and sutra leave traces. It is only when the I is no longer that the chalkboard and the Hard drive vanish as there is nothing left to record upon. This is also why purification is an endless pointless ritual. It only serves to get one behind I and in Kriya this happens in degrees. I for example am far from being without what we call in Kriya the Godown Of thoughts which is exactly the same as has been expressed here. Are there other chalkboard analogies sure let’s explore them all for as long as any speaks as an authority they are not. This has been my interpretation thank you for viewing 🙏🏻

Here is the real gasser! What if ? What If? What if Everyone really is already enlightened and part of the deal of being born human is that the animal body and the mind cannot express the full divinity without maturity if the mind, the etheric double and this is the reason for birth in the first place schooling on the often times harsh material plane. After all the mind and the body are codependent and arise as one but the mind is quasi inter dimensional capable of more than any physical or astral body even capable of ceasing in the casual realm. So here the really bright ones came up with many paths to the same mountain top using what is available. The body, The mind the etheric body or astral and work their way back to their divinity while still incarnate. This is how we get the examples like Jesus, Buddha, Tapihritsa, and even more astounding showy ones like Trilanga Swami Who was so well documented for hundreds of years defying the very laws of nature. Clearly these beings went way beyond mere enlightenment as it was but a step on the way to something even more. I rather think the way I outlined it is the case and it takes allot of work or time as in millions of reincarnations as a human to improve. Who knows how many just to have the desire to become more to entertain the very notion of enlightenment or the desire for it. How many lifetimes more once even a small measure of enlightenment to even care to go further for the whole enchilada? Might some not rather enjoy being human and being here in their demigod state of awareness? Some seem to get enlightenment rather swiftly and declare we are already enlightened. Then others mistakenly believe oh it is just shifting your point of view. Seems to me the ones claiming these things are clever and witty and know how to spin a story and offer an attractive them and framework. I have even seen one who wrote a book and it was good and there was nothing left to say. The book became popular as did his odd appearance and personality and against all common sense the author a person with mental illness became respected. Strange how that worked out. Then upon seeing the dollars rolling in even more books were written rehashing shit from different angles. One word comes to mind. Fraud. So we have many root traditions both old and new to work with, some very inviting and others more selective and a fine sprinkling of flawed teachers in all and in some cases down right frauds. My advice if you want the full enchilada be careful how you approach any path do it with eyes and ears open and a healthy dollop if common sense every morning with your coffee or tea. Be alert keep your ears pricked up and be like an outdoor cat ready to bolt. Life is to short to waste on frauds and those peddling a poisoned dharma. If it seems too good to be true it usually is.🎣 Reach out with your feeling nature and use your way seeking discriminating mind.🧐 After all you all ready know all you have to do is give yourself permission to admit it.🌎😁

Lol I think I would have liked him. I have always earned my living by being of service to others. One of my favorite things to do is say No. I can see the question coming and before they speak I smile and sweetly say No. Often I get a what do you mean no ? I did not even say anything. To which I reply well see the conversation can’t go anywhere but up from here. Or can’t do anything but improve from that beginning. This is to slow people’s motors and get them to consider I am a person too so they phrase what they really want correctly instead of being on the horns of a need worked up in their emotions or imaginings of an issue that truly is more of a mole hill than a mountain. The really objective ones get it and laugh with me. Some get offended and their issue also takes longer for me to get too ass well 😈

are you saying the sages mind is the reflection of the people’s mind as the sage has abandoned mind and become the reflection of others?

Pratyahara ( Sense Withdrawl ) is required and can be done in many ways by yogic technique how you turn the senses inwards and withdraw the life force into the central channel that was previously enlivening the ever extroverted senses by means of introversion is dependent upon your practice. In Kriya Yoga we use a series of techniques that first take one from the outer world to the inner. Over time the practitioner can do this very swiftly within the first few moments of sitting even. Pratyahara / Sense withdraw becomes a very simple matter it is more getting a feeling for doing it than anything else. The object of meditation in Kriya is the triple divine qualities a psychospiritual force. The triple divine qualities are also a byproduct of friction. Friction with what? 1.The Astral body and the blockages or Samskaras within that system. The whole motion is one of reversing the process of having been born and taking human form in a way so that one comes to consciously realize their true nature. The short version of this is an often used and seldom understood phrase: self realization, but that is just the beginning, The triple divine qualities are as follows and defined they are all astral in nature and non physical but the human nervous system registers pleasure in an attempt to translate them. They are an psychospiritual force and are of Shakti. 1.Divine vibration and pulsation can manifest as Pulsation, Vibration and Electrical like qualities. as with all that follow the goal is to seek the source of this psychospirittual force by going deep into it to its core. 2. Divine Sound is the inner sound one hears it has nothing to do with the normal sese of hearing and it is in fact arising from Divine vibration. This is how the true Om is felt and heard as well as bija and mantra true mantra not the vocalizations so many traditions adhere to or even the mental verbalization. True Mantra comes from Divine vibration and consciousness attuned in such a way that the vibration is discovered. 3. Divine light is the most refined of the three and is from the most refined vibration. Know that these things are only perceivable once a degree of sense withdraw into stillness and spaciousness are accomplished. It does not have to be complete or total sense withdraw The reason is as follows. These triple divine qualities all manifest from stillness and spaciousness. Once even a small degree of sense withdraw occurs these triple divine qualities begin to manifest it is by technique of Kriya Yoga of Hariharananda they are worked with and worked with differently in different levels of Kriya. So if all you accomplish is sense withdraw without knowing what to do next and you start getting the triple divine qualities which are blissful and do feel pleasurable then you have hit a roadblock. You can hang out and experience them of course enjoy them and call it a day. In Kriya however we do not stop there. The triple divine qualities guided in the channels and the chakras take on a different dimension if inner life. In each and every practice the introversion becomes more and more profound then becomes the object of Meditation (Dharana) The culmination of practice is the practice of Jyoti Mudra where if you look at my avatar you will see what advanced Kriyabans experience. After this we sit in what is called the Paravastha of Kriya. This is an interesting thing Kriya means action even though one is sitting Kriya is different than allot of traditions in that once Samadhi is achieved we learn how to be in samadhi while engaging in the world. We first learn this by the techniques of Kriya which at first make you think is this right? why would I dive deep only to have to perform a technique that requires stretching the body? I don't want to do this it takes me out of my tranquility. In time you become used to carrying the tranquility of samadhi with seeds in action and not be a slave to the cushion and this makes the practice highly practical and valuable. After all the Kriyas are done we reside and abide in the fontanel and do NO Thing whatsoever at all only sit and calmly abide. In my case as the stillness settles over me like a blanket and the senses introvert once again the triple divine qualities shower down upon me from the crown and I feel divine vibration literally shower down upon the whole body in blissful waves over and over again and where the encounter resistance resonate and generate friction and then from the friction which is a byproduct of the divine vibration causing purification as it changes the vibratory frequency of the obstruction it encounters divine sound begins. And before long divine light as well but most important of the three is divine vibration you must get that first otherwise there is no true purification going on just faithful beliefs and trust in tradition. Once the triple divine qualities become strong the entire body vibrates with the frequency of OM and OM is most certainly heard so loudly at times that on may rightly wonder if it is waking up the whole neighborhood. These triple divine qualities take charge and realign the astral body. In Kriyabans like myself whose alignment is sufficient a very curious and extremely odd physical manifestation occurs. The Triple divine qualities having living consciousness and a decidedly female presence guide divine union and form the true Shiva Lingham via the method known as Kechari Mudra which if forced is a farce but when guided by Shakti is very real. What happens is the tongue seeks to go upwards slide up along the back wall of the throat and penetrate in to the cave above. When this happens duality within the being as male and female cease to exist. For you become the penetrator and the penetrated. The tongue becomes the lingham and the soft pallet and the womb above the Yoni. This to be clear happens in the physical it is not a metaphor. To be equally clear it happens first in the astral which then the physical follows. Many make the error of doing it physically which is mistake. One must only form the mudra when in deep practice and when the triple divine qualities make it happen you just get out of the way and watch as it happens on it's own it is quite wonderful. Now when this rather odd union takes place we understand experientially that this is the true Yab Yum the true Shiva and Shakti taking place. What follows is the circuit has been made complete from crown to base and the sushumna opens wide allowing the energy to pour in from a dilated crown and flood the central channel and rebound upwards and if allowed to continue growing ever stronger you will follow it with all your being to a point of absorption where nothing but this exists and your awareness will change and become like unto the expanded awareness of the cosmos and so much will flood into you and will become known and enter the deepest samadhi state where your heart will stop and your lungs will have no reason to work. This is dangerous. It is dangerous because you may not come back. This happened to Lahiri Mahasay the founder of Kriya Yoga I will tell this story at the end of this post. It is dangerous because if you do come back as I have you will be reluctant and resistant to leave the peace and serenity beyond measure for this human life. Then you will have to learn how to integrate being here when you already know beyond a shadow of a doubt the other is better beyond words yet you need to be here for the experience of life that you took incarnation for in the first place so you dare not tempt this. Once a person has had Nirvakalpa Samadhi the feel for how it is done and the avenue to take for it known it is able to be avoided in favor of less dangerous absorption. The way of opening oneself to be a vessel for the soul to fill with all its power through the crown chakra is a path to Mahasamadhi. In order to avoid this as it is an extremely high state of energy required to open the seal and enter the casual realm one simply does not allow the dilation of the crown chakra to become so wide open nor focus so much on what the energy is doing until the mind is completely absorbed. After this occurred more than once I learned a great many things many things were taught to me and not by people and not by words but by the living force behind the triple divine qualities. While seated one day after the practices were completed and abiding in the crown chakra and sense introversion began the triple divine qualities made Kechari Mudra occur and then even greater energies came in and aligned my channels and dilated Sushumna at this point I am completely introverted unaware of any surroundings but this time the energy took on a different behavior. I was shown channels and pathways intuitively not visually. And watched as a decidedly female presence shaped and guided the energy of divine vibration into these channels. For some reason the energy entered the penis and caused a throbbing erection which I had no interest in doing anything about but was fascinated this could occur and continued watching what the energy did. I learned that even though taught that the pathways start at the crown chakra and end in Muladhara the base chakra rear and front Kshetram ( Trigger Points) being the Coccyx and Perineum respectively that it was not an entirely complete teaching that the patch actual ends at the tip of the glans where the Jewel Tip Chakra is located. So here I was sitting like a passenger watching experiencing feeling all of this going on completely absorbed in the inner world and divorced from the physical world going on outside my closed cell of a room. My entire central channel was full of divine vibration from Crown to Jewel Tip Chakra note I am not saying physical body. Astral body. Now with the astral system charged up and enduring blissful ecstatic orgasmic sensation to the point of not enjoyment but enduring yet not painful more like to the threshold of ones ability to do so and remain aware a curious thing happened. She being the energy guided herself and gathered at a point below the navel and this changed the vibration in the system into a lower throbbing type of orgasmic feeling here the energy was pulled and compressed and grew hot. Then I felt it rise like a flame up the central channel and as it did I became aware the physical body was growing hot like a furnace and huge gouts of sweat giant drops were streaming off of the skin. Yet the internal focus persisted and I watches the body with some concern and about this time realized I had not been breathing for quite some time. It is a curious delima when you realize you do not know if you are on the out breathe nor the in breathe and do not know where to take it back up from either exhalation or inhalation. So I exhaled and realized there was not much there upon inhalation I realized how hot the body was as it felt as if I were inhaling hot air from an oven whose door had been opened. This pretty much ended this session as I feared doing damage to the body as the heat was ever building. There I was left sitting with an erection that was throbbing like crazy and sweat everywhere soaking wet. So after doing some Kriya Mahamudra to realign the energy in the body I took up my cushion again with this persistent erection and sat until I felt cool inside, Kechari continued to form and I would bring the tongue back down as it constantly seeks the pituitary gland above the Sphenoid Sinus encased in the sella turcica bone shell, this structure can be felt with the tip of the tongue. Here there is an energetic connection. and there is a spongy soft pocket here where the tongue rest naturally. After some time everything calmed down and I went about my business a bit perplexed. Shortly thereafter and many sessions many things were shown to me including the full practice of Tummo. Tummo eventually led to consort practice where the heretofore only felt female presence took on astral shape and form and then the things of the statue makers became fulfilled as surly as if a flesh and blood woman had mounted me. I now understood the pictures and the statues were depicting a reality not an imagining and not a physical joining which would be a mockery of the actual experience which is more real. This female essence taken form joined and taught me how and where to move the energies between us to cause the bindu to melt and many more things. At about this time I contacted Jeff and asked him if he had any idea what this was that was going on and he told me to look into the 6 yogas of Naropa and see if their were similarities. Needless to say I was astounded. Later i discovered other books which described things in greater detail and aligned with my experiences. Over time between this and Kriya great transformations took place and over-swept my physical life changing everything there as well. In time the Divine Mother, Consort, Shakti, Kali however you will call her gifted me with my lady a avatar of the divine female principle if ever there was one. To say Tantra, Tummo and True consort practice is trans-formative is as understated of an understatement that could possibly be made. People should really be careful with these practice you may get one whole hell of allot more changes than you can possibly imagine. I know I sure did and I watched peoples Karma accelerate in my presence at an astounding rate. Something I want to bring out is all of this is Divine energy from the Divine Mother and she most certainly transforms you by it. To understand what I am saying you must understand like this. If I take a tuning fork and tap it it begins vibrating if I place another tuning fork next to it it will pick up the vibration of the first. It is like that. The pleasure component is inescapable but not the goal it is the part that holds mind to single pointed absorption like nothing else can. Tummo and consort practice are not in the category of complete absorption and samadhi. They are also outside or the realm of Patanjalis Yoga Sutras and remind me of Tantric sorcery. I think it could be very dangerous for someone to tamper with the divine female principle least their intentions are pure and devoted. To practice tummo effectively however a background in the yoga that leads to the triple divine qualities is essential as I have described. Now for the Story of Lahiri Baba as told to me by his Great Grandson Shibendu Lahiri in private. Shibendu told me with great respect and solemnity he reserves for his Great Grandfather above all others that Lahiri Mahasaya was sitting in Nirvikalpa Samadhi the state of no heart beat and not breathing as was his custom and he knew this was going to be a prolonged practice and instructed his wife not to move his body no matter what she witnessed or how long it took. For some reason that remains a mystery she did not remember and upon finding her husband in that state planned his funeral and carried it out. It is not known why she did this and only remembered his instructions after the fact. I speculate that Lahiri Baba had his reasons and once in Nirvakalpa Samadhi decided not to return or could not find his way back which I do know is a risk and the body perished.