mystery

Go ahead and pretend your analysis of what I said is accurate. But anyone with basic reading and reasoning skills will be able to see it's not if they choose to read my posts. Even if I've been coming across badly in ways, that doesn't take away from much of what I've You're distorting what I said into what it's not Why even do that?

I just see pride as a big block So not something to respect in anyone including myself Arrogance is such a stumbling block for me Arrogance comes before the crash I've felt crashed for awhile haha

Thank you for being accepting pilgrim. And not being harsh to me. I'm sorry if I came across bad in ways. I'm not a great writer, but it's all in the spirit of not caring about offending someone's pride. But still I care. Idk just sorry if I came off badly.

it seems some people want to impose their ignorance/limits on such subjects as if their ignorance/limits really do define/represent such subjects Newsflash the ignorance is just that, ignorance and it will never be able to have a clear sight about any subject It is ignorant! often such subjects are vaster than people currently realize

To Pilgrim and Cat,

 In regard to Gurunath's Kriya I have been as skeptical as the next skeptic. I have been as skeptical as you, likely. Do I care about that trait? Not really, it is utterly unimpressive. It is not hard to see that it seems people can get results from almost anything, and so that fact should make us quite suspicious. The scientific community often tests medicines against placebo, of course there is more reasoning. Again, I have seen the movie Kumare. Look it up, then you will realize why I am name dropping that. It is very relevant. I have heard much about how many frauds there are. Even IF just 1% of the alleged frauds were frauds, it would be shocking. I don't blame you for being suspicious in a world of many frauds, as I am just sure there are. But sometimes someone or something does come along that is genuine, and you have to have less ego blocks to realize when that comes along and to not fight against it. Yes people can get some results from fraudulent things. Kriya yoga is so powerful that it can be seen as well beyond that field. Sometimes our consciousnesses/lives really do cross paths with a genuine spiritual practice. For me kriya yoga has been exposed as a very advanced practice. It really is the lightning path, I've seen. It is called the lighting path cause of its nature. Voltage, nervous system, the powerfulness, the speed, etc. To get beyond the subconscious to get to the soul. I was as skeptical of it as the next person, how could something like kriya be legitimate? Honestly kriya yoga sounds &^%$ing ridiculously fraudulent to me. It sounds so fraudulent to my logical mind. But despite that I was guided to it, my heart sees what my brain fails to accept. Nothing can be said to someone caught up in belief and disbelief to change their minds cause they are in a place of rigidity. The brain is an organ that just is not capable of addressing kriya yoga. If you are interested in truly seeing it, consider if moving into your heart would assist in seeing if it is genuine or not. Kriya yoga has been intensely more powerful than the category you are describing where "nowadays people get results from almost anything". I've extensively tried different techniques that are all over the scale of being successful or not. Kriya yoga breaks through what I thought was possible on that scale, it surpasses. But of course I enjoy other genuine practices and get results from other genuine practices. I've experienced and witnessed what you are referring to (nowadays...etc) and kriya yoga is not that. My brain cannot address kriya yoga, but it sees proof/evidence. I am still surprised still about how intensely powerful kriya yoga is, and I have been experiencing kriya yoga for months. You haven't even done his kriya, and even if you did you would have to be patient. That's just ignorant. So I am not even saying this for you, I am saying it for other people that might be skeptical too and follow your bad suggestions I do not want to describe "advanced" like you did. I am discussing genuinely advanced satgurus and genuinely advanced others (spiritually). I was discussing how to experience the lightning path, it is necessary you must be empowered by a genuine satguru. 
Then you basically said it is possible that you have not been empowered under a real satguru which means you have no genuine sight of kriya yoga.
 Sometimes humility should take the place of arrogance, and we should soften our heart/mind (in my opinion). In regard to Gurunath I tend to be quiet about what I experience. I do not even like to share what I experience to those close to me, even close to me in spiritually adventuring.
 I will attest to four impersonal experiences in that other people have experienced it too. It is really public.
 1) One thing that shows me he is a genuine satguru is that my kundalini kriya yoga really is empowered. My life/consciousness/karma/etc makes that very visible. It is hard to put into words, so I am not really trying to. 2)He transmitted his soul consciousness and I witnessed a glimpse of his witnessing. WOW, is all I will say. Again, hard to put into words so I am not going to try.
 3)One thing that shows he is at least a siddhi is that I personally experienced him breathing through my breath (intensely). It was obvious that happened, but again it is hard to describe. 
4)One thing that shows he has siddhis is that I personally experienced his shivapat changing of the faces.
 Actually I will vaguely describe one personal experience. 1) I was doing his omkar kriya, and the shaktipat allowed me to glimpse immortal self within. More occurred during that time and words will fail. But an example of other things I experienced was glimpsing the astral chakras and what they really are. 
Of course there is much much much much much more that has occurred through him and I. I am being purposefully vague. If you naturally want to argue against this, just know that is my reasoning for not saying more. Your arbitrary, doubting brain will mechanically continue on doubting no matter what because it is below the level of real thinking. And I am not under a pretense I can silence such a poor faculty in someone else and help them transition to a higher state of thinking. I am not advanced. This is for other people who are curious about him. And if you are one of them just know I am leaving stuff out. Why would I cast what is sacred to myself to such a crude level? So I am being very vague, believe it or not.
 I do not feel motivated to share any more about my direct experiences with him. Anyway, he has apparently shared he is not taking any new students (people have allegedly been his students through past lives). So if you are not in resonance with him that could be very meaningful/purposeful. He is advanced enough to put a veil over himself so people that are not supposed to arrive to his satsangs and kriya empowerments won't. That is a siddha, It really is. Satgurus have considered it very necessary to magnetize certain people away from themselves and to themselves. And I am sure is very easy for him. For them, that is like as easy as moving your body is for you. I see genuine awakening simply as being really sobering from delusion/mental illness.

Students everywhere put unrealistic demands on sat gurus as well as others. Students everywhere arrogantly assume a liberated individual should behave according to their own box of limited perceptions of what a sat guru must be like. Hopefully you can at least figure out how ignorant that is.

I have talked to some of the teachers before too, one of them said that they don't really practice the kriya yoga much. They did not literally say that. But they said the the time they practice it per day, and you can only do so much kriya in so much time. The quality matters too. The time spend doing kriya does matter, when you learn of Kriya. The quantity does matter. Just like in any other technique quality matters, but the more you do that technique the more effective it becomes as well. So again, the teachers are capable of being beginners and ignorant. I am not sure gurunath cares much about how realized they are as long as they are a good support system.

He is the real deal, and he is very personable with his initiates. He is a genuine. I can attest to this. I am surprised. I was not expecting this. Kundalini kriya yoga is the real deal, and Yogiraj Satgurunath is a real kundalini kriya master. I am surprised. I was not expecting this. I have been in love with other "tracks" before. But I was guided to his tracks and kundalini kriya yoga. And I am thankful and love is occurring. Kundalini Kriya Yoga removes obstacles. It is indeed the lightning path. How simple kriya yoga is makes my brain want to go into denial about how genuine it is, but going in denial would be a lie at this point. It is just not up to my brain whether it works or not. It is beyond my belief and/or disbelief. Astonishingly, I can see it transforming my life, consciousness, and burning my karma. As Yogiraj Satgurunath Siddhanath says (something like), "you must fall in love with your practice, or you will not know its value".

I am going to be blunt. Much of what you said is pathetically ignorant. But will your mental rigidity allow you to see that? I bet not. You might even take what I say negatively cause of pride. Even the Tao/Tao Te Ching/Lao Tzu may have poor students/poor representatives/poor teachers of them. You're really going to put down Tao/Tao Te Ching cause of its students/teachers/representatives? That is literally your logic. By that logic every thing relevant is a fraud cause every tree is capable of having spoiled fruits even though others may be ripely delicious/healthy. What cannot? Even if a beautiful, healthy fruit falls from Yogiraj Satgurunath Siddhanath, a student/representative could spoil it. Even someone who has received genuine blessing and empowerment, may be ignorant still. I am someone like that. Kriya yoga is not a magic pill, it is causal until it is non causal. It burns karma, but there can be much karma to burn through. Don't you know what that means? Has Yogiraj Satgurunath Siddhanath claimed that any of his students/teachers/representatives are even Paramansas? No, the so called teachers are likely students who have been practicing very, very, very simple techniques that are helping other students learn the very very very very simple techniques. They are students. They still need to become much more "advanced" so to speak before even becoming paramansas. Teaching the techniques does not take much realization. They are still beginners. Jesus allegedly said "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Tung Shan, an ancient Chinese Zen Master and founder of the Soto Zen school, once sang: "Of students as many as the sands of the Ganges, not one is awakened. Their faults lie in their search for tracks left by the tongues of others. Forget all forms and wipe out all traces that you may diligently walk in the Void." What is more difficult to guide one to than awakening? Being awakened is simple, but the rigidity of the mind makes it difficult to awaken. Are you so arrogant so that you feel you are awakened? Yogiraj Satgurunath Siddhanath is indeed a sat guru. He is even very personable. I am thankful that he is assisting myself. The vastness of his help is astonishing. And that is why I have faith. I have had glimpses sometimes of his vastness. But I am not advanced, so I can only see so much. But the journey to eradicating ignorance is causal until its not. "Their faults lie in their search for tracks left by the tongues of others." Even if we are trying to be on the track of tao, we may wind up on a track of delusion. How can this not be so unless we are fully united with tao? How can a delusional person dictate what a liberating human being appears as? How can a delusional person significantly see underneath appearances? Are you really not delusional?Are you really all the way awakened? His celebrity status is not celebrity status. People often experience love/devotion for beings that give them experiences such as what he gives. I write back cause of devotion perhaps. Others may be ignorant enough to consider what you said as anything but ignorant. But what you wrote is that, ignorant. I could go on and write back to every thing you said. But all I will emphasize is most of what you wrote is pathetically ignorant. But I gather rightly or wrongly that what I am saying will not be received here. So I will cease my message here.

Is your Kriya yoga blessed/empowered by a satguru or another advanced being? That's a big part of it being successful.

Kriya yoga doesn't help spirit at the expense of the body. Kriya yoga would be the number one thing I know of right to heal my body, and I've been investigating the most healing things I can discover for years for body, mind, and soul so to speak. Ever since I've been doing Kriya yoga with gurunath, much has occurred increasing the health and wellness of my body. I am being blunt and I know what I am referring to is cause of the kriya. I'm open to finding something more healing, I just haven't yet. I mean, certain psychedelics can be increasingly effective for healing certain diseases of the body and psychology, of course. Certain other practices can be powerful too. But there's just something about that Kriya that is very exceptional and special haha. Have you even done his Kriya yoga? What do you REALLY know about it?

<+_>

If the satguru is indeed a satguru, channeling for him/her/ them would be like what wiggling your fingers would be to you

I mean if you want an open discussion, you have a choice to offer your so called good insight as to why you think the video you posted is something "made up" so to speak. And by the way surya yoga is not the only practices he offers. Why is it controversial that sunlight can cure certain diseases? Why it it controversial that intention and prayer can have bodily effects, psychological effects, etc? Have you been up to date with science? Many cultures of people have even worshiped "the sun" as a deity. So I am interested to hear your refute.

I am not discussing appearances. I would rather discuss what is underneath the surface. But how self realized and beyond must someone be to truly get enough bellow the surface to see how genuine a sat guru really is or is not? You do not really have any good points, so it seems you have to falsely make them I suppose. It makes for a really dishonest conversation when people begin putting words in others' mouths. Why are you pretending to say you have the capacity to judge gurus if you made it a full time job? You seem to be experiencing arrogance that has morphed into full blown psychosis by behaving as if you can do such a thing. You keep drawing rigid conclusions based on no real investigation, and you expect me to think you can do such a task? I am not the only one who has experienced much from him. I am not the only one who has experienced his siddhis. I am not the only one who has experienced his shaktipat, and watched it transform their lives, consciousness, and burn karma. It is not a vague thing when that all occurs that can be wrongfully attributed. The vividness of the transformation, the evolving consciousness, the burning of karma, the shaktipat, etc is very very very intense. It is not placebo. He does much more too I am not going to share, and I am confident I have not experienced all there is to experience from him. I have watched the film Kumare, and I am sure some so called gurus fool people too. Of course. Not everyone is like that though. I have experienced people offering what they do not really have the ability to offer, before. I would even sy I have experienced placebo before. But that is not comparable to what he offers. It is hard to describe what he offers, it is just so powerful and vivid. It takes some very deep faculties to be see into the genuine or lack of authenticity of a satuguru , faculties I doubt you have and I do not have. Many people are not blindly following him like the masses would blindly follow a priest. He is powerful, it would take a mental illness to keep bashing him after receiving his guidance. But yes you would not know this because your mental rigidity isn't allowing you to see past your cognitive road blocks to the destination of proper investigation. You won't even do that, but you are acting as if you are in-the-know. It is actually full blown ignorance/delusion how you are behaving. To think that your shallowly drawn conclusions can be passed as insight. I am still investigating him without a conclusion, as I said I do not have the faculties to realize the depth of a sat guru. Even after everything I've watched, I still need to keep investigating. It is not about bashing or praising him, it is about investigating what he offers if wanting a clear insight as to what he is offering. It is about not jumping to a conclusion before the point of clarity, and to not be so arrogant as to think I have arrived before I really have. I obviously have not arrived. I have not been uncovered of delusion and neither have you, I can tell. If you are not willing to investigate any of this I should probably stop taking you seriously. Cause you either do not care about this really, are too rigid, or you are trolling.

Just explore it yourself you know, why trust other people's perspectives including mine?

Just cause you are calling me telling someone to do due dilligence (if they want clarity) fanaticism doesn't mean it is. I wrote a lot cause I am passionate. These days people name call "passion" as negative things if it doesn't agree with their viewpoints. I could have written less. So what? I can do what I want. This isn't a graded assignment or some bs, I'm just sharing my heart. There are no rules. It doesn't have to fit a criteria. You are just another person basing their viewpoint on a lack of evidence with a pretense as if that is intelligent or a clear way to go about viewing someone. Like look you are writing what you heard about it from other people. It's like you're just regurgitating information. It shouldn't be radical to say do your due dilligence, and it's certainly not fanaticism. This is a basic sciencific principle. I am just saying don't be mentally rigid and mentally lazy (if you want clarity). Explore if you want clarity.

It's just insanity that such a lack of due dilligence would be shared as if it would benefit the world at large But then again it's insanity I'm even spending the energy here refuting such mental rigidity

And you'd be psychotic to take me seriously too as a determinate of his genuiness just like your lack of investigation formed a psychotic conclusion Just do your due diligence if you want genuine insight If you wanna be pretentious carry on as you are

And it is curious you form opinions based on people other than him That were talking about him I wasn't wild about those people too that he appoints to instruct But I don't see them as representative of him But they do serve a purpose though nevertheless Their evolution or lackthereof doesn't mean much about who he is and how powerful his techniques are And who are we to judge how evolved they are anyway What faculty do you possess that can determine that? And how about me? And who is to say a divine being should fit into your caged idea of what it means to be liberated? They're more liberated than your idea How could they be limited to your perception? And why act like your perception is very aware? What about it is?

It is basically potentially legal defamation/slander that you performed against a holy man Not that you care or that he does

If you are not doing your due diligence I don't know why you think your opinion is substantiated

I'm interested to why that is being considered a worthy investigation to get to the truth of the matter, yogiraj satgurunath siddhanath. To me it sounds like a rash conclusion that was formed cause of mental laziness and arrogance (thinking you were aware enough to form a conclusion off of lack of evidence) I got initiated under gurunath. Just cause the fruits of his service isn't obvious to you it doesn't mean it isn't happening. What occurs doesn't revolve around whether it is known by you or not. You are not the determining factor. It's arrogance to assume you are. I'm just writing this cause he has been very transformative for me. I'm saying this from much experience. It took me awhile to truly see. But then I did. I don't expect you to believe me and I don't feel like sharing anymore personal history here. But I would recommend you do your due diligence instead of being presumptuous. Honestly you would have to patiently practice his techniques for quite some time (patience) to of done your due dilligence

I am opening this thread to discuss the mystery/unknown. I am wondering how we all approach the mystery/unknown. I am wondering if members in this forum are even open to witnessing the unknown/mystery.

Some people posted online conclusions based on some authoritative icons in their respected field that had never heard of Gary Chicoine. How much more lazy can someone get about all this? That was enough for a judgment.