MIchael80

How to start?

Hi freeform! Are you allowed to talk about such tests and physical signs? Find that a hugely interesting subject! 😊

Hi creation! Well i would not call that beyond consciousness...as it is, as you described so well the recognition that this pure consciousness is always there and no withdrawing is needed. (Before that realization withdrawing is needed up to a certain point). But as this pure consciousness is always present there is a "level " that is prior to that even though it apears as the most fundamental "thing" and at the same time only "thing"that there is.

You cling to words where they cannot reach. But we have to use them in a conversation, right? They use "reality" because reality is "bigger" than pure awareness (you seem to use it as unbounded awareness). Maybe you want to listen to the Interview of Joel Richards i posted above (he describes these shifts) They very clearly state that they do not talk about states of individual consciousness but of shifts in being itself. Quote "consciousness is an unbounded field of pure awareness ". And beyond consciousness is "prior to..etc.etc." Your thought process goes into the right direction. 😊 ... it could seem like subtler and subtler forms of awareness and some become these subtler and subtler forms before the beyond shift. For some who make that shift it feels like a loosing of the enlightenment (unbounded source awareness) as it is ending a paradigm of perception/existence. However once it gets clear the mechanics of how pure unbounded consciousness is created are understood which is quite a revelation. 😊

Sigh.... 😔 In that quote i used presence and awareness as synonymous.... but you are right presence is not pure consciousness. I thought i made that clear that i , and the teachers i quoted (most come from a tradition) talk about beyond consciousness...beyond that basic fundamental consciousness which as you stated is "common to all states and things". https://www.lucialorn.net/states-of-consciousness This talkes about that....from presence to pure consciousness to beyond. I had already posted that.

Hi! Somehow missed that answer? 🤔 Anyway.... you say "from your own realization " ... and i say that there is just more than your realization. You do not read the sources i gave you ... even though the people there explicitly!!!! state that it is beyond absolute awareness/consciousness (not individual)... that is what i do not like! You claim something you have no own realization off and something you do not understand yet are totally resistent to look into it. And though i do not feel comfortable with saying that... i speak not from book knowledge... i just quote sources from several Teachers because i am a nobody on the Internet. I work with one teacher who had also realized that Joel Richards from fulldawncircle. Short Interview The absence beyond consciousness is not presence... presence in deep sleep is still presence/pure awareness. Beyond that there is nothing...literally a no thing ness...it cannot be experienced...because consciousness as the silent source is needed for experience... the absence of it is very strange at first. Even that no thing ness is not the end.... it is swallowed by pure divinity... and it is hidden by pure consciousness. Has nothing to do with mystification... just that there is more than pure eternal awareness. Here a leading by Andrew Hewson from I Am.. through pure awareness ..beyond it. Since you shifted to pure awareness...that leading can take you maybe beyond it. It would be wonderful if you could see that for yourself... but since you say that is ridiculous... that could be a block. 😊

A friend of mine knows them, they are excellent. 😊

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First i would say ... why not ask people who claim that and have stabalized there? Next is...there are some hints to that unfolding in scriptures, i was shown but forgot where because i am really bad with scriptures. It is also not my experience at all that stages are a modern concept. All the old traditions i know have describtion of stages of awakening. Next, from the experience here ... i am not stabalized there but was there for a while...because for me it felt like falling out of consciousness and had no reference for it i began searching and found some who where there. It was very different from breathless samadhi and the awakened "experience " so i needed a frame for it. And normal awake teachers gave the same answers you write here. Well you describe excactly what it is ...it is the abscence of knowing....for me it was like a blankness.... and only the contrast to consciousness got it some recognition. However those that are there say that changes with time . I have met several of these individuals and they agree on this unfolding... some have been awake for decades and then moved beyond consciousness... but it is seldom. If you know everything better maybe write these people that they are deluded and post the response here? As my understanding is ridiculed by you.

Do you know these stages of unfolding? Because you are so sure. And if you know these why is the real/unreal any question as it comes much before? In your analogy we could say salt being the individual and water being the pure unbounded awareness. With regards to further unfolding....that would be beyond water.

Well the actual reality is that for several people it feels like falling out of the Self....some need months of adjustment...at first it is just a blankness. 😊 But to me more important in this context is the real vs. unreal dichotomy.....very basic... is just a perception of reality from a certain stage of awakening.

Hi! As with everything that an awakened being or scripture says it is important where in the divine unfolding that being was (stages of awakening....though i do not like the word stages so much) With the first big shift there is a change of self experience from being a mind/body to pure still unbounded consciousness. At this point the world appears often like a dream or unreal....like it is covering the real. (Stage of that prayer) If you desire (here it means you are open to) further unfolding...at a certain point a unification happens...like pure awareness recognizes itself as form....the real regocnizes itself also as the "unreal " and that duality collapses leading to deep changes in the psyche and body also. Ramanas teaching comes from here "the world is not real only Brahman is real, the world is Brahman. Once this unity process completes one moves beyond consciousness....which is rather dramatic at first because it feels like falling out of source (pure awareness) like loosing ones awakening....because what is when there is no basis at all? After a while pure unbounded consciousness is seen as another layer over the pure source ... but that is beyond this response. Important is that there are different perspectives in the awakening unfolding...and they have quite distinct realities.

It is not what....but from "where" the action comes. 😊

Human beings are not capable of wholesome virtuous behaviour. Only after a good amount of spiritual practices and inner transformation is there a slight dawning of such conduct. Before, there is only behaviour based on trauma, karma, social conditioning etc.

Hi ! Are people who have attained (in the way you spoke about ) the 4th Jhannas or higher in the public? All the best Michael

They teach 4 methods. Yuxian pai Wuliu pai northern method and southern method Method of the first emperors (only for a few select teachers)

Dorothy Rowe of distanceenergywork.com Kristin Kirk of Kristinkirk.com

That is oral tradition! .... you are not allowed to write that down. 😂

The Tamil siddhas have ida and pingala (which is sun and moon) and also the fire and water channel (which is what daoists call the mco) ... both Yin and Yang systems must be worked on. 😊 Preheaven/alchemical mco is different.

72 hours in samadhi!!???? Wow !! 😲😲 My deepest respect! 🙏🙏 Just being in samadhi or "doing" some alchemical work there? Any idea what instructions you are getting after that? (Just in general)

Classically these external elixirs were often used by yogis to prolong life and thereby having more time to practice, to ward of disease and to deepen transformation. If you use chi it is also external and you bring it into your body through certain practices. While one can do a lot of alchemical stuff the original external elixir (wai dan aka philosophers stone) is made from mercury (cinnabar). It can be detoxed and made into something divine. The metals are not charged (but can be) they are brought through the alchemical process and so they become the golden elixir (aka philosophers stone). From my experience it very much supports cultivation greatly....gives a strong boost but one should be very careful. There are safe ways to use it ... like wearing the white stone around your neck or putting it into water and drinking that water.

Do you still practice it?

Beautifully put. ❤❤❤

Fascinating!!! 😊 I am always amazed how different the same terms are used. In these 2 schools earth immortal means you can live as long as the earth exists.....hence earth immortal. But you would still need to reincarnate again if you would have been killed by an accident. What you describe with forming a body etc would be possible when becoming a spiritual immortal.

Very interesting! How different schools frame their path!!! In yuxian pai and wuliu pai physical immortality is on the way to heavenly immortality and a sign of going in the right direction. Their evolution goes like.... First human immortal .... after laying the foundations (body open etc. yuan jing and chi are fully replenished) earth immortal .... this means xing and ming have joined and that is the beginning of the elixir...that means physical immortality Then heavenly immortality...the elixir has matured to become the yangshen exiting the body. spiritual immortality....physical body is disolved into light only yangshen remains.