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Everything posted by neti neti
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Either way.... samsara!
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You're just complicating things. There is no circular logic. The seen simply does not exist without a seer, thus they share the same existence/nature/reality. Or maybe you're not, and it's just that I no longer even see the seer!
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The trap is of your own making. What exactly determines the difference you perceive between "inside" and "outside"? What exactly is it which makes you so sure the dream exists only in the mind? It seems preconceived notions veil your ability to see that my analogy is more like saying: As character and video game arise together simultaneously, then the character, the character's seeing within the game, and everything the character sees within the game are all of the same nature. Nothing more, nothing less. Scenario within scenarios, ad nauseam. And yet, you as the seer, the video game and the object within the video game all arise and exist simultaneously within the same reality. Otherwise, you as the seer could not even claim to have seen in the first place. A seer's sole function is to see. Now it's just an aspect? Mirrors only reflect objects within their range.
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It may seem circular... but you've said nothing to oppose it. Yes, that reality can exist objectively for the jiva. He can claim that he or the table exists, separately or otherwise... But, as you confirm, his initial impression of himself or the table isn't necessarily the true nature or reality of the things seen. Is it not an assumption that the seeing, the reflections seen in the mind space, and the mind space itself are all of a different nature? Consider dreaming. Is not the dreaming of the dream only possible because the dreamer and the dream share the same reality? That's all that's being said. Seeing, (whether seeing yourself or seeing the table), must necessarily be of the same nature as the seer and the seen (regardless of whether or not your perception of the "wood" color isn't the actual "wood" color). Would you agree?
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The frames are projected on screen at a speed indiscernable to the naked eye, appearing as if they are all just one continuous picture. Likewise, this universe(the 'I-thought') spontaneously rises and sets at a speed with which it seems to be continuously existing. The wizard superimposes the Great Work upon that miracle which is already greatly working.
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Sounds pretty Jungian for the Hindu section. If the seer, the seen, and seeing is the same consciousness, I'm not sure what really matters. Playing with yourself can become tiresome after a while. Eventually the images on screen start to fizzle out, get blurry and just seem to get sucked back into the lens. The Great Work transforms into the Great Rest.
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"If, instead of seeing anything in front [of you] by the mind, you see by the mind the one who sees, all will be found to be oneself, the seer; then all objective knowledges will be found to be foolish. If the seer [drik, the ego] and the seen [drisya, the world] were different in their reality [sat], the act of seeing would never be possible. But since seeing is possible, know that they [the seer and the seen] have one and the same reality." ~Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi
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"The world cannot appear where the mind-light is absent. That is to say, in the true light of Self the universe, which consists of objects that are created (by thinking), sustained (by continuing to think), and destroyed (by forgetting), does not at all exist. On the other hand, since Self (or God), the truly existing Thing, is beyond the range of mind-light, to the mind It is non-existent. The reason why Self is said to be beyond the range of mind-light, whose function is thinking and forgetting, is that It is a Thing which can neither be thought of nor forgotten, and which can Itself neither think nor forget."
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I see where you're going with this. Either way works, I would say the enemy is as skillful as we allow it to be. Or, the kids will play when daddy is away if you will. However, the opposite sides of the family are not divided, nor do they become one. They are present as both functions of witness and observer. Both appear onstage as if separate, simultaneously, arms wrapped around each other's necks posing as oneself. But you are neither the witness nor the observer. The bridegroom, bride and guests simply arise. There is no wedding.
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What is Kundalini and what entails an awakening
neti neti replied to dwai's topic in Hindu Discussion
I'd be inclined to inquire into the label of whoever demands to write or do anything, let alone who's responsible for the label of measuring its "worthiness." -
My dear Jeff, I never-mind! Ego's capacity for self-indulgence; its mischief and trickery, which knows no bounds in its will to survive as imposter. As the original traitor, the story sheds light upon ego's shameless mockery of Self. Most importantly, it inspires faith in the power of Self-Inquiry, a spotlight upon that thief in the night. One must admire such a skilful enemy, yes? Able to rub shoulders even with both sides of the family and none become the wiser. It seems almost as if he belongs here, until someone questions... Who IS this guy??? That's all it takes to expose a conman though, isn't it? A flick of a switch, and cockroaches will flee.
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A stranger once entered a marriage-house and posed before the bride’s party as the bridegroom’s best friend; and with the bridegroom’s party he posed as if he were a member of the bride’s family. Thus for five days he passed his time happily, eating well and bossing the servants, but on the last day when inquiries began to be made about him, he disappeared.
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What is Kundalini and what entails an awakening
neti neti replied to dwai's topic in Hindu Discussion
All that to say, the joy of adventure is in finding out home is truly where the heart is. -
What is Kundalini and what entails an awakening
neti neti replied to dwai's topic in Hindu Discussion
The subject in question is, in Ramana Maharshi's words, 'the I of I.' The true Self. We are not who we assume ourselves to be. The error is in the mirror of one's mind being drawn out, becoming preoccupied with this or that; anything except itself. When it is withdrawn however, ceasing to wander about incessantly, there is only Self-reflection. It then rests within its own nature until it dissolves, but in truth, it's revealed that mind never was. Only the 'true I' remains, as its only "experience" is itself. This direct experience is of the sole Subject, which had before appeared to project a pseudo-Self which experienced this or that, now seeing only itself, has nothing to experience. 'The I of I.' Remaining as oneself, without mental projection, is the subtle alteration of perception which allows for neither subject nor object(no perception). In the mind, those feel-good one-liners justify its projections, reinforcing the illusion. Words come close, but none can be It. There truly is no destination, as who we truly are has never left to find itself. The source of desire to know oneself, is oneself. 'The I of I.' When the mountain of mind's desire to seek is overcome, the summit reached reveals a landscape in which the seer, the seen and even the seeing, are one. Thus whether living in the moment of that perilous climb, or relishing in the retracing of one's steps along the way, becoming enthralled by the story is to be deceived into believing you ever even decided to depart. -
What is Kundalini and what entails an awakening
neti neti replied to dwai's topic in Hindu Discussion
All that to say, the Traveller only traverses him(her)self! Lose not sight of the Traveller! -
What is Kundalini and what entails an awakening
neti neti replied to dwai's topic in Hindu Discussion
Greetings Limahong! Sure. Although I would offer that, in our own time, we each come to discover that not only do all roads lead to one destination... but also that having once arrived, our destination is found to be indistinguishable from our departure. -
What is Kundalini and what entails an awakening
neti neti replied to dwai's topic in Hindu Discussion
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What is Kundalini and what entails an awakening
neti neti replied to dwai's topic in Hindu Discussion
You laugh? You lose. In my experience, which was "Self"-initiated , I cultivated so much of an intense desire and longing for liberation that its climax was quite dramatic. A simultaneous hundred-thousand orgasms cannot compare. One could describe it as having been such a ridiculously immense surge of energy, rising and blasting out of my crown, reverberating throughout the entire universe... that amidst tears drool and snot, I was left with no option but to exclaim.... "Blaaaah!" Thereafter, the true awakening began. -
What is Kundalini and what entails an awakening
neti neti replied to dwai's topic in Hindu Discussion
This was enlightening. From, "Guru Vachaka Kovai"(The Garland of the Guru's sayings), which is a compilation of sorts by Bhagavan Sri Ramana's devotee, Muruganar. Commentary by Sri Sadhu Om. -
"Worry not, short-lived one... your fears are as useful as those of an ant astride a leaf perched atop a tidal wave." ~Zaleskar
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The difference between imagination and reality
neti neti replied to dwai's topic in General Discussion
They are identical, and inseparable from the one imagining he discerns between the two. -
There's nothing mysterious about the imperceptible, it's simply the absence of knowledge creating an illusion of mystery for the inquisitive mind. He says as much in the first 30 seconds. Like any journey, the quest of self-discovery can be laden with pitfalls. This perception... this self-limitation, which convinces us of our inability to grasp the unknown, is one of them. For it relies upon a conviction that we must be able to. The jivatman seeks knowledge, without first knowing himself. Yet simultaneously the answer to the question, "Who am I?", is ineffable aside from... "I don't know." Knowledge is finite. The mysteriously unknown self of all, is boundless.
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~Michael Jackson (1958-2009)
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"The goddess of sensuality is very fond of the human sacrifice, and she likes it fried alive." ~Siddharameshwar Maharaj