Taomeow

There's actually two small circles in the wuxing diagram (the upper one looks a bit squished but it's there) and they correspond to the lower and middle elixir fields. The upper elixir field is actually the same as the central circle of the taiji diagram above it. And you can see that the black and white areas around it are arranged like the human brain -- yang controls on the left, yin controls on the right, yang functions on the right, yin functions on the left. This is a picture of the microcosm of the human body and a diagram of its subtle (jing-qi-shen) functions. I don't remember what kan-li meditation is, is it something from Charles Luc? Don't worry about the pill till you have control of the cauldron...

Let's keep things in perspective. Milarepa, the great national hero of Tibet venerated as a Fully Enlightened One in other Asian countries, began his apprenticeship with a black magician named Lama Yungtun-Trogyal, "Wrathful and Victorious Teacher of Evil." (Evil teachers seem to be more than willing to present unambiguous business cards, apparently. Just so no one can later claim innocence and not having known what they were getting into, because innocence of intent deactivates evil. Anyone who discovers he or she has been learning something evil had a "claim for power" at the very least within whatever intent they had. Without such a claim no teacher of evil can teach any evil to anyone.) When Milarepa finally decided to abandon the path of evil (but not before he killed all his enemies and quite a few innocent bystanders) and decided to devote himself to pursuing dharma, he did so with his teacher's blessing. Great masters' destinies are seldom straightforward (or tepid) and more often than not give them a good run for their money. One of my favorite quotes: "magic is like a sword with no hilt: there's no safe way to grasp it."

Jesus. I nearly choked on my coffee. Why are you doing this to me? Yoda, please forgive me, it wasn't personal, I would have choked on my coffee if anyone else was in your place in this context.

Pretty sure... also alchemical schools that place earth in the middle are mix-and-match schools, not entirely original. It's easy to see once you are familiar with hetu and luoshu, the fundamental diagrams the whole structure of taoism is based on.

Thanks. A few minor corrections and additions if you don't mind... So far so good. Correct. It goes both ways. The empty circle is the fucntion or operation of yin and yang if you reverse time. "To and fro goes the Way." The emphasis on emptiness/unmanifest/xian tian/tao-in-stillness/wuji as opposed to ten-thousand-things/manifest/hou tian/tao-in-motion/taiji is not present in nor derivable from the upper (genuine) diagram, and is an acquisition from other (non-taoist) schools of thought. Taoist proper theory and practice emphasize reciprocity of wuji-taiji relationship, and consequently taoist empirical practice, far from being one-way "leaving the world" ticket, has a "coming into the world" imperative traditionally followed by taoists to replicate this "to and fro" of tao-in-stillness and tao-in-motion in a life that aspires to ti tao, embody tao. I see it as a crucial point to grasp. The sequence of generation of wuxing phases begins with Water. Earth in the middle is one way to arrange it but it is only used by schools influenced by other doctrines, the taoist proper arrangement is circular. However, the one with Earth in the middle is useful in certain applications, notably in some Xuan Kong (space-time) schools of feng shui (that's because there's four seasons and four cardinal directions but five wuxing phases, so placing the earth in the middle is a way to see the cogs and pegs of the wheels of time interact from a simplified perspective that's easier to work with. Some of the great FS schools avoid it, however, and instead introduce the fifth season -- "late summer" -- governed by earth. Either way can be worked with. By the way, the placement of the earth in the middle to form a square around it accounts for the taoist assertion that "the earth is square" -- this is the shape of it's spirit, its sacred-geometrical shape rather than its physical shape. They have never been dumb enough to equate one with the other. The small circle at the base is a fractal (ganying) reflection of the wuji circle on top, and a clue that wuxing interactions never leave its domain despite all the hectic activity, while wuji never leaves the domain of hectic activity despite all its stillness. The two circles below the diagram are superfluous and probably a later addition of non-taoist origins. Taoism: Chart of the Great Ultimate (Taiji tu)

Our history has been referred to by someone who knows much about instincts, biologist Konrad Lorenz, as "the abnormal and pathological process of domestication of humans." He studied the behavior of wild and domesticated animals throughout his long and fruitful career and concluded that nothing in human behavior is radically different from animal behavior, and humans exhibit typical behavior patterns of domesticated animals. This is the saddest piece of information I'd ever come across in my entire life, and some evidence that became available later only corroborated this view. Not only are we domesticated animals, we've been tampered with on the level of our chromosomes. All apes have 48 chromosomes (24 pairs), yet humans have 46 (23 pairs) and there's evidence that this was accomplished by fusing the 2nd and 3rd chromosomes together, which is unlikely to have happened naturally for any reason, and very likely to have been genetically engineered. Which is why many of our instincts are scrambled and most of our "natural" behaviors are about as natural as those of a circus tiger. Sure, the tiger gets his morsel of food if he jumps through the hoops of fire. So do we. But it has nothing to do with "instinct," "natural," or "normal behavior of the species." Poor us.

on no, please don't say that! That's exactly what Yoda said shortly before it got interesting for him.

No, I'm referring to the British Indian military force comprised of Indian Moslems, invading Tibet in 1903-1904. You are right about tibetans having preserved many, many texts, but tibetan buddhism happens to have produced a larger (and from my POV, more interesting to a taoist ) body of literature than any other, and much of it was destroyed at the time I pointed out, and more later by Chinese communists. One of my teachers told me about tibetan medical texts, huge in volume and scope of teachings, that were in possession of Buryat buddhist families in Siberia for hundreds of years (many Buryats were Tibetan buddhists by creed and had lamas educated in Tibet, who in their turn produced some great local teachers who were teachers to the dalai-lama; some of them were famous physicians to Russian czars... but I digress.) So anyway, some of these are among the texts that, interestingly enough, survive in Russian but not in Tibetan, to my knowledge. History works in mysterious ways...

See, that's exactly the illustration of just one thing that prevents me from taking buddhism as you and quite a few others present it seriously. The paternalistic, condescending tone. The "if you're not with us you're a nitwit" message. A taoist can't possibly take this style of communication seriously.

There's 376 million buddhists and 20 million taoists in the world. If that's what "solved most quarrels," if that's what "solved the issues..." ...so much more precious it is for taoism to stand its unique ground and not get swallowed altogether (Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are much bigger than Buddhism, and of course each one of them, strong in numbers, would support the view that everything has already been solved and shouldn't be argued again... of course if it's been solved to the big guy's own satisfaction.) Too bad taoists don't honk in traffic. Maybe they should. Of course a world massively converted to taoism -- by decree, with steel and fire, with gold and blood, with "god on their side" the way major doctrines had converted their followers in the heyday of quarrels having been "unresolved" yet -- is an impossibility, but for taoism to not go extinct is a responsibility -- at least to a taoist, IMO. And to say "enough is enough" to "blending" can be a starting point... Beyond 64 blendings, the world reverts to chaos, according to the I Ching. Some things should remain what they are or else they will turn into a handful of pieces that no one can benefit from juggling, or put back together again. Look what happened to the pagan religions of Europe. Look what happened to tibetan Bon. Look what happened to all shamanic traditions -- to everybody and everything that wasn't a big corporation religion. I don't want to think that taoism will disappear the way they all did. The last tiger has been killed in China, and the last dolphin in the Yellow River... I don't want the last taoist to be next. "And it is as true as that a buffalo is not a horse," as a taoist mathematician (whose work, borrowed without attribution by Leibnitz who, upon learning the binary code from the Christian missionaries to China, made the eventual creation of this-here computer possible) used to say by way of "quod erad demonstrandum." It is as true as that buddhism is not taoism.

Get her to order moomiyo or shilajit. This is a bone mender second to none. Moomiyo from Altai is superior. Put her on an HGH releasers amino protocol (not straight-up HGH). I used this strategy a few years ago when I fractured my sternum in a car accident. It healed in half the usual time, according to the doctor.

Oh... horrible. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

All right. Sounds good. The thread was about "taoist views on buddhist way." I'm a taoist, and I presented a view. I should perhaps let it stand on its own without falling back on any other authority. I, a taoist, don't take buddhism seriously. It's not true for all taoists. Some taoists do. Many. But not all. I for one don't. Is all.

A specific sutra might be hard to find for a western non-practitioner/non-afficionado of buddhism, for most pratcitioners of buddhism in the West likewise, first and foremost because the vast majority haven't been translated. Did you know that about one in nine praises ganja, e.g., as the tool of spiritual ascention? These have never been translated! Did you know that, on the other hand, most Tibetan buddhist texts had been destroyed by Moslem invaders, making the French (and a few English) translations by a westerner the only source currently available? but if I cite David-Neel as the source, you (not you personally perhaps, one of the guardians of the sacred cow of the westernized buddhist digest) will tell me, who is she? nobody! And about the sutras in praise of pot -- there's more of these than on any other subject in buddhism and hinduism combined -- I learned it from Rick Strassman who investigated sacred herbs and sacred writings about them, I didn't do the work myself, but I believe him because other knowledge he presents is credible. It's circumstantial evidence... always and for everybody unless you wrote those sutras yourself, THEN you know what they do and do not say. When I read something from people who read the originals, that's the best source I practically have access to. Those "in support" of a doctrine will pick and choose what they give you, those "against" will do likewise, no one is "impartial." No one. So no source is one hundred percent reliable, but then you fall back on corroborating evidence, on other sources supporting or refuting a particular view. You integrate and glean a picture, and then post a one-liner, the way I did. What more could I do? A dissertation? Not interested... So I recall, e.g., that a monk who started the Zen reformation of buddhism did so because HE believed traditional orthodox buddhism had expired and become corrupt AT THE TIME, which was many centuries ago. That was the reason for the birth of zen cited by its creator. So then I see a modern master educated in sutras assert the same thing, and I happen to remember his name better than a dozen other names... whatever... I can easily find the name of the first zen dude and a quote, I just don't see the point. A buddhist who plays mickey-mouse buddhism will insist on it remaining just the way he knows and loves it anyway: mickey-mouse. A fairy tale of my life being an illusion. Screw that. A fairy tale of the glorious and magnificent universe full of beauty, meaning, mystery, life being nothing but suffering. Fuck that. A fairy tale of knowing what "right thoughts" and "right actions" and "right words" are or aren't. Duh.

This is the single most dramatic reaction I've ever managed to elicit by honoring a request for a reference. Man, some people's lives are eventful... everything is life and death... reference a book they dislike and they scream bloody murder. OK, OK, Lin Yutang and Li Hongzhi are both clueless where you're an expert, and my having nothing else within an arm's reach or a memory's stretch and being too lazy to get up and go invest a few hours of research at the local library obviously makes me a criminal. I confess. I was too lazy to look for what might satisfy your specs any harder. But I didn't know it was killing you. Really sorry. Om Tat Sat Om. Om Mani Padme Hum. Om Namo Gurudev Namo. Meow.

Which sources are not questionable? oh, I get it... the ones that support the views or your party.

Hardyg, I could ask privately since it's off-topic but I'm sure others might be curious too... Just WHAT on earth is that owl DOING?.. ...spontaneous qigong?..

Yeah, it's a Chinese dragon. Taoism is an invention of people who proudly call themselves The People of the Dragon. The creator of our own Babylonian-Mesopotamian culture, Marduk, have you ever seen an image? -- is, surprisingly enough, also a dragon. So?..

I do have a mantra but it is not a sole or primary practice, at least not right now. I can't achieve my goal with it yet, because it's a Maitreya mantra and Maitreya is yet to come. (I would never choose a buddhist mantra myself, by the way. Funny how these things work. It was given to me as part of an offer I couldn't refuse.) It is not the same as mindfulness. Mindfulness maintains the status quo but changes your perspective. Things are the way they are, mindfulness allows you to notice the way they are more fully. A mantra is transformative to the status quo. Things no longer are the way they were before the mantra was activated. If it's given in a sacred context, yes. If it's chosen randomly outside of such context, I believe one might get more mileage out of other practices. Mantra has to be individual, not generic, if it doesn't resonate with who you are it will be like playing Bob Marley on a harp, or Metallica on a violin, or Mozart on a drum... "something" will happen but not something very useful. It is absolutely true about true mantras that they have divine powers, and the opposite is true about homemade or randomly picked mantras -- these can be used just as points of concentration on "something." FWIW

however, he doesn't present HIS views in the book. He relies on (and cites) taoists (and buddhists) who have spoken on the subject -- including a long and heart-wrenching poem by a buddhist nun I dare not quote here. I have gone from shamanism to atheism to Tibetan buddhism to taoism to proto-taoism back to shamanism, by the way. "To and fro goes the Way." In modern terms, "the Way evolves." "The Way of tao is motion and the pattern of this motion is return." So it's not unusual nor demeaning to revisit a starting point -- on a different level, enriched with the sights and sounds of everywhere you've been on the journey.

"Stabilize and bind" is equated to "astringents" in the version you're looking at? Hmm... Western herbalists equate "contracts tissues" and "astringents." This has always been my understanding too. I will check my Kaptchuk/Belsky's translaton of TCM Materia Medica and get back to you.

I've no idea whose son he is. The practice is superb though -- have you tried it?.. If I come across a better reference I'll give it, so far the only book I've got handy is My Country and My People by Lin Yutang, and buddhists would be very unhappy with what he presents as the traditional taoist view of buddhism. I don't want to be responsible for their unhappiness, so if interested, check it out yourself. Unlike Li Hongzhi, Lin Yutang is not controversial one bit, he's the translator of many classical taoist and buddhist texts into English, an Oxford-educated scholar, and the inventor of the Chinese typewriter. Right on!

It's WAY more than an "astringent." Matter of fact, any herbal infusion in alcohol is an astringent. Any one of them. An infusion of schizandra in water is about as astringent as lemonade, and the berry itself is less astringent than ordinary lemon. There's a lot of research that has been done on it in Russia under the broader category of "adaptogens," spanning many decades. One stellar application that transpired is support of the white blood cell count in people undergoing chemo for cancer. I've seen it used this way with spectacular results. Usually white blood cells drop dangerously below the norm in chemo patients, which is why they are so prone to deadly infections. Schizandra counteracts this effect of chemo superbly, maintaining WBC within the normal range in many cases, without interfering with the treatment itself, unlike modern drugs used for the purpose (survival rates are even lower among people whose WBC was artificially maintained with those drugs than among those who didn't get them, according to a British study I saw.) In China, they use a combo of conventional Western and traditional herbal methods in many hospitals with better results than any one of them alone (cancer is surprisingly resistant to natural-only interventions, contrary to popular romantic beliefs of new age derivation, and there's really not much on it in TCM, perhaps because it used to be exceedingly rare in China when TCM was in full swing. There's way more on it in Ayurveda though, which makes me wonder...) Schizandra is usually part of those herbal formulas.

Yes. Also a buddhist and taoist scholar, which is why I thought his opinion might count in a buddhist-taoist thread. I know about the controversy. I know the practice. It's a taoist practice within a framework of buddhist ideas. In fact, falun gong might be the closest thing to buddhist-taoist reconciliation I've ever encountered.