Mig

Let me understand your notes. I understand we humanize what we see in nature. Not long ago, we thought we had control of nature but the more we see, the more we realize that is not the case. We try to dominate nature because the way we were taught. Now, how do you know there is no good nor bad. If I go camping and stay in one place, chances are that bugs are going to visit and most likely they will make my life impossible so I have to find a better way to be in a comfortable place. Is it good or is it bad? Is that about my thinking or just the way it is in nature? Now the natural flow with least resistance? Is that how lava works when the volcano has eruptions causing disaster for all the living creatures that were nearby. As for the lion, aren't lions territorial and will kill out anger or get killed because for some reason a pack of hyenas picked the right victim. How do you explain that? Each time I spend in nature, each time makes me wonder, where in the Dàoism or in the DDJ or ZZ talks about how nature is not all rosy but also cruel. Thus, I can see now why some humans are also cruel committing atrocities to their fellow human. If I read history and even today, I noticed how much conflict and wars still common in this world. Is that to follow the Dào? Is that to emulate the Dào? How can I go natural if natural is constant fight between those who can survive and those who take advantage of each situation to live comfortably? And be my own Master? Really, are you implying having control of myself and my surroundings? We have control of anything, plain and simple.

Let me see if I understand correctly. I started reading ZZ ch 6. 1 古之真人，其寢不夢，其覺無憂，其食不甘，其息深深。真人之息以踵，眾人之息以喉。屈服者，其嗌言若哇。其耆欲深者，其天機淺。 The True men of old did not dream when they slept, had no anxiety when they awoke, and did not care that their food should be pleasant. Their breathing came deep and silently. The breathing of the true man comes (even) from his heels, while men generally breathe (only) from their throats. When men are defeated in argument, their words come from their gullets as if they were vomiting. Where lusts and desires are deep, the springs of the Heavenly are shallow. Legge translation So, I am a regular Joe who likes to read stuff here and there and when I read this I understand each word and each sentence in English and I can see the original is about the same except that was classical Chinese. But wait, I read breath from his heels, WTH is he talking about? Then I checked one of the postings here in this site and I started reading all kind of stuff, some are made up by each contributor others trying to follow some tradition, but come on, the original text in itself doesn't tell me that much. So how I am supposed to understand the text in this specific section of this chapter? how it can possible 真人之息以踵 or is there a reference what it meant by the heel? I tried to imagine that but I don't see a physical evidence that can show me that is possible. I have tried breathing from the navel and yes, I can feel warmth through my knees and feel the warmth of my circulation on my feet. As you can see, I still don't understand what I read is what I get because I don't get it. Or maybe I am out of the target or I don't belong to those bright minds in their selective circle, who knows!

Street fight is what is the closest to a fight could be. However if you watch people fighting even those who are practitioners, fight like kids, punches, kicks and clinch. All the techniques they learned all of the sudden disappear. Today there are tons of videos that show how boys and girls still fight the same way. Very few show what they have learned like a good front kick in the face, a roundhouse kick or a good jab. There are some videos like backyard brawler that show the efficiency of kicks and punches but I rarely see a technique or a fancy technique that can knock out someone. There is a distinction of martial art (like those monks who rescued Lǐ shì mín 李世民. Lǐ shì mín rose to power and became the first Tang Dynasty Emperor.) and the sport that is practiced today. As for the martial art killing or injuring, it seems that there was a code of conduct 武德 wǔdé/butoku, lit. martial virtues, so when there was war, bare hands or ground fighting were the least weapons you had, you needed weapons or whatever useful tool to kill.

Where did you get that from France. France had savate which was kicks and strikes sport. Any street fight can be brutal and as a kid in those countries, you want to see blood in a fight and that's how you show you are a man. Bruce Lee didn't introduce Kung fu, he was against Kung fu and that's why created his own martial arts, a mix of wing chun, boxing and some grappling since then it had evolved as trends has changed. As he said: "Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own". Inosanto had to follow the trends and if you are going to his school, you will find sambo, kali escrima, silat, wing chun and JDK. As for the Chinese fight, knight errant Youxia (Chinese: 遊俠) novels then wuxia 武俠 had influenced what people considered fight or real fight although it became more fiction than real. Today MMA is not what you could find in alleys where guys fought bare hands or knuckle fists and each generation had their own rules. Today MMA is full of restrictions to make it interesting and entertaining.

Kung fu is a generic term and many movements, holds, sweeps have similarities both in the north and south boxing styles. What is similar to Jujitsu is 摔跤: Shuāijiāo that has roots from ancient times, similar type of wrestling you find it in India and some African countries. So it was the same in Rome, back in the days of Nero, you remember him, right? As most everything in this country, it is all about marketing, trends and sensationalism so one can see the evolution of martial arts from regular boxing to Judo, Karate (kumite), Kung fu (Katas: forms mainly), full contact, kick boxing then MMA. Gracie's idea took off and remember that congress had banned UFC because it was too violent. Really, everyone in this country live in a violent society and glorify thugs and criminals so the so called fights evolved with too many restrictions. Now, remember that Gracie's didn't make it in the beginning because the prevalence of wrestling and boxing as being the sport of poor people so they were never supported by their government.

How do you know that Karate developed during that time. I thought Karate was systematized in Okinawa in the 17th century ?? Just wondering

Thank you for the clarification. I am sort of familiar of all those styles and if I remember correctly Judo became popular in the US after 45 and then Karate took over. What I find interesting is the way they market names and some become popular and some don't. Just like Pankration in the 70's that never took off or then after 90s sambo never became popular. Today, there is a controversy about how Royce fights were not equally fought or didn't have athletes prepared as what you have today.

I thought that judo was the evolution of Jiu-jitsu to become the national sport. I understand that In Judo, much of the emphasis is weighted on standing techniques versus ground techniques. On the other hand, Jiu Jitsu is heavily focused on ground techniques with some standing techniques in the form of self-defense. Is Brazilian much different? Or was it marketed differently and the timing was right in the 90's when full contact, kick boxing were fading away that became popular? Or is it another trendy thing that is so common in the US?

The link for to take it easy is highlighted "wife", is that correct?

Those are the places I have lived and noticed the poor conditions an nice conditions of public restrooms. Back in the 80's when I went to mainland China the restrooms were a collective room, everyone doing their business and in the dorms, restrooms were very clean.

Alors là, tu m'épates , sacré Jean-Paul, what ZZ proposes?

USA, in California, NY, Illinois, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas mostly in large cities. Same thing in France and I noticed more in Sweden, so different when I live in those places back in the 70s and 80s. Also, same scenario and even worse in Mexico, Central American countries and Peru

Let see one example. While traveling and living in my van, I had to use public restrooms. Whenever I had to go to impoverished area, the restrooms were filthy, vandalized and not taken care so if I had to pee, I would go near a tree as it was disgusting just to stand in those restrooms. Then I would go to a public library in a decent area and the situation was the same. Lastly, I will stop in a nice residential area or well off place, the restrooms were clean, well taken care and had all you need. I came to the conclusion that people without education, entitled and selfish wouldn't even care about public facilities, even at work, they become just like many others. People who are educated they care better and try to keep their facilities in good shape so others can enjoy too. I saw that too in other countries, industrialized or third world countries. It seems to be a natural human trait to be selfish and care less.

Thanks for sharing. Do you have any feedback reading his translation and do you see any difference if you have read Watson or Mair?

It has become the norm where the influence of Hollywood, consumerism, selfishness and entitlement is now normal. And then after when they get older, everyone has a pity on them.

So tell me, all the translations we read all over, the Watson, Graham, Meir, Féng yǒu lán 冯友兰, etc., are those translations directly from the original, whatever is consider original, or shall we read by commentaries as the one Ziporyn did? If I understand correctly, one has to read each chapter and try to make sense with the way of thinking and the way it is understood today by whichever arbitrary comment. Or is there something else I am missing? It seems that in each story of each chapter there is more to ponder and understand and many thoughts are already in the Chinese mind as opposed to those who grew up thinking that death is a curse or that we are going to heaven or hell or if I hope I maybe reach my dream, etc.

Great initiative in explaining those stories rather than just translating them without any explanation. I am discovering that behind each commentary there are more explanations that can be useful in real life situations and the metaphors are helpful to bring those stories more vivid captions about what the author wanted to convey. So there is a tradition in which is explained and I have found some explanations that fit well in the Chinese mind. I am finding that many of those stories became idiomatic expressions 成语 chéng yǔ and in this way I can understand better the translations. Thanks for sharing your own translations. They are very helpful.

Zhuang ziers, I am contemplating 3 books on Zhuang zi translation: A.C. Graham Burton Watson Victor Mair Any recommendation for a beginner who almost read the DDJ. Not looking for a fancy translation but something that is close to the original or it can be understood easily. Thanks a bunch,

Why 郭象: Guō Xiàng commentary is important to read and understand 莊 子 Zhuang zi? Aren't most of the translations based on his commentary?

Isn't that subjective? My past recollections are in the present because I am thinking about it now but those were past experiences that my memory helps me to live them again in my head. As for the future, I don't have a clue, those are just thoughts that may happen or may not happen or half happen depending on millions of circumstances. And what is your sentence related to Zhuang zǐ?

At the end, where that energy comes from? It's not about the origin but the energy comes from somewhere? The energy that makes move earth comes from somewhere. I'm not talking about the manifestation but the source of that propulsion, whatever makes this planet rotate and how energy starts. Just wondering

Did I miss something? Why calling it invisible as it seems that in the 5K words book is talking about the origin of things. If I read Zhuang zi: 齊物論: 古之人，其知有所至矣。惡乎至？有以為未始有物者，至矣盡矣，不可以加矣。 The understanding of the men of ancient times went a long way. How far did it go? To the point where some of them believed that things have never existed - so far, to the end, where nothing can be added. B. Watson translation Isn't he already talking about things have never existed and is confirmed in the DDJ Ch 40 天下万物生于有，有生于无 The myriad things of the world are born of being Being is born of non-being . Derek Lin translation Just wondering

Mostly on the meaning of words as many commentators have pointed out some words have evolved and you find in today's mandarin it doesn't mean the same thing

What the purpose of saying that Lǎo zǐ wrote those lines about the Dào? As a reader, what's in it for me whether it was nameless or nothingness? What's the reason to understand those lines and how that can be helpful?