Mig

As I started learning about morality, I still don't understand as I found these are part of character ethics: 1. Determination 意志yì zhì 2. Endurance 忍耐rěn nài 3. Perseverance 毅力yì lì 4. Patience 耐心nài xīn 5. Courage 勇敢yǒng gǎn Are all those related to Confucianism ethics or morals?

Has anybody read this book and if you do, would you recommend it? Also William Bodri The Secret Inner Teachings of Daoism And is there another translation available for this book: Chang Po-tuan Understanding Reality: A Taoist Alchemical Classic

Which language do you think the DDJ was written? Considering it was a poetic language easy to misinterpret it into another language. How would I understand each line if I don't have a structural understanding of each chapter as it seems it was intended and those chapters have been understood by generations of teachings in the same culture. If you read the translation you are reading words and understanding what you've been taught in your own culture. Talking about benevolence is purely a Christian understanding but not necessarily how the similar concept has been understood by the Chinese culture.

Where did 莊子 Zhuāng zǐ said that? And what was the context in the section where he mentioned that sentence? I think you meant ZZ Ch 27.1 故曰無言。言無言，終身言，未嘗言；終身不言，未嘗不言 Therefore I say, we must have no-words! With words that are no-words, you may speak all your life long, and you will never have said anything. Burton Watson translation

After reading many postings about Daoism, the DDJ, ZZ, LZ etc. I was wondering for all the scholars in this forum, is it necessary to know modern Chinese and classical Chinese to read those classics? or it is no necessary to learn none but rely entirely on every English translation since the concepts or messages in those books are just normal concepts or advises that are natural in humans all over the world. If I read the DDJ or ZZ, I can understand the sentences in a translation but I don't have a clue of the meaning, structure or hidden message in each chapter. If I find an explanation or commentary of each chapter and the point of view of a scholar well versed in Daoism then I understand the reason why. The problem becomes tricky when everyone has one opinion and their opinion is based on religious or an academic point of view. The famous dichotomy of religious and philosophical Daoism is seen from differently from the point of a native scholar. And reading those Daoists books, I realize that is important to learn about Confucianism and then bingo! I can see how terms, concepts or ideas had evolved after their time until the Tang and Song dynasty and how those texts were interpreted later by Buddhists, Confucians and Daoists. So is it necessary to learn Chinese or not to read or understand (to practice in life) the old classics?

Which English translation will you recommend to read Lièzǐ 列子? And what did you learn about his writing and why one translation and not another one. Thanks

A few books about what? Which books are you referring to?

Not sure what you mean about agglunative language? Any examples to share? What I have noticed recently is the use of single syllables like instead of using two syllables words like kuaile: happy and say le only.

Thanks and understood. What books would you recommend to get the general theme?

What was good about Graham translation? What did you learn from Graham that other translations didn't cover? Was that helpful to understand what Daoists preach or talk about Daoism?

What is your criteria to assert that it was not out of an imposed design? Wasn't the written script arbitrary imposed to pronounce words?

Interesting posting and the Quora answers are so diverse and I can smell the academic flavor of their lingo. It is true the importance of tones but common people don't talk like that, in conversation their sentences are fluid and when they speak very fast, it is only the context that helps in the conversation, an example is the crosstalk stand up comedy type where they speak fast, or even when they sing songs where tones are not necessarily used formally . As for tones in ancient Chinese, who knows what happened BC. And this made me wonder, were the DDJ or lún yǔ written using tones or was it a tendency for the language to become monosyllabic then tones evolved? Again, as for tones, it seems to me that there is this academic explanation, which I understand why, but tones as Kaiser Kuo mentioned in the Quora intervention, "dude" can use tones for the 4 tones in modern Chinese. Now, I have never understood when I hear native Chinese speak the standard language, I can hear stress or intonation in a sentence and tones are not necessarily used unless disambiguation to clarify the meaning of a word whether is one syllable or two syllables words.

I guess I understand better the sentence as the real person's breathing reaches down to their heels which makes sense if I breath using the dantian. It seems that is the practice developed from Daoists and Yogis traditions. More common in Taijiquan in their early writings.

I keep reading in different texts to follow nature, emulate water and be connected to nature and I am wondering did they think or do they still think nature is all good. When you look at nature, there is always something going on, not for the best for humans but to survive as nature is not clement. So why don't they mention the bad side of nature, the cruelty of nature and the disasters we see every day and in the wilderness nature has no benevolence (DDJ Ch 5). Why is so important to obtain the Dao if Dao is related to nature? Just wondering and you can probably can help me to understand better the idea behind "nature" Thanks

How good is that book as an introduction to Daoism or Eastern philosophy ? From the vinegar tasters to the old master and the master Zhuang, what's that all about?

Great and thanks. Any reason of why 節; jié was included?

Since you mentioned Jujitsu (I avoid the Brazilian tag name because of the trend) and I had practiced southern Chinese boxing, I found those strengths that are popular in many martial arts circles which have been influenced by the rújiào 儒教 the scholars (Confucianism) and the folk religion which includes Daoism and Chán Buddhism. Thus, I try to understand where those ideas came from and why people use them in their practice or teachings.

I couldn't find where the 四字 came from in the traditional Confucianism. Any sources you can share to explain the reason of those four which includes 節; jié ?

I think the problem is about the translation and the use or misuse of the word "nature". And most likely it comes from a sentence from the 淮南子 原道訓: ...修道理之數，因天地之自然，則六合不足均也。 the man who conforms to the art of the Tao, in accordance with the natural way of Heaven and Earth, would find it easy to manage the whole world. I am pretty sure that my inquiry has been made in the past or for thousand years and my observation is that it gives me the impression is that if Daoist say follow nature is idealistic and chose arbitrarily images or concepts to make sense of their message. Unfortunately hippies, post hippies and then new age people have used it as a porte manteau word to sell whatever idea that sounds cool

What is the closest sentence, explanation in Chinese? I see your example of flood, what about earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis. Is there any mention of how follow nature in Chinese?

Okay, I guess my problem is trying to understand "following nature". Did you understand it because it was common sense when you read it or is it because you found one sentence, one commentary or one explanation in one of the classics and that is how you understood it? And more problematic is when I hear people say the Dào is nature or the Dào follows nature, thus nature is 自 zì 然 rán Now human nature is or should be a replica of nature and I can observe that some individuals grow nice and some grow mean or psychopaths as now we can watch videos as how some pack animals can be cruel within their own territory. As for injustice, I think that is for another discussion later.

I've just got mine and already I am very satisfied with the few pages I have read and compared with other notes. I highly recommend it and I am not sure why is not as popular as others as Watson. Thanks for sharing

Got it. But what's four virtues (四字; sìzì)? Four characters?

So why people keep saying follow nature, emulate nature? Is that what all the Dào is all about?

Like what kind of nature of things? Any examples to share and how to emulate them as following the Dào? Beneficial? I thought we were here because sharing is caring. Back in the days people used to say tigers were lonely animals but now apparently is not the case. The reason of my ignorant questioning is because the ideas I found when people say follow nature or the Dào, it seems to me very simplistic and idealistic because the nature I see out there is far from being harmonious and when nature catastrophe hits your backyard then is no longer that nice and nothing is left undone.