Sudhamma

OP: The pre-requisites of enlightenment. What is this enlightenment in this thread? Are we looking at Daoist or Buddhist or any other enlightenment? From various other threads, I read of enlightenment according to Daoism and of other belief systems. Each as their own 'pre-requisites' and go tangent to each other. So, what is this 'enlightenment' in respect to this thread? Will you at least elaborate?

Hi Holderfold, just my 2 cents worth: Seems that you are confused by the meridians' directional flows. You are right with your observation. If you are learning acupuncture, shiatsu, or acupressure, then the meridians (and their directional flow) are important, and with that the timing aspect as well. Leave it to your body to regulate the flow. In any case, just do your orbit according to the instructions given by your teacher. Note: Not all qigong systems require the micro or macro cosmic orbit to complement their practice.

Yes, if during meditation, one sees a Buddha, "kill him" or rather, vanish the image as advised by The Buddha. As the image is an illusion. Jessie, enter the Buddhist path, learn Buddhism, begin with being an 8-preceptor before saying things like fake Buddhist path, fake monks, and things like that.

Gerald in his #8 contains good advice to you. You seems to have anger against Fo Guang Shan Monastery's practices. You even posted two videos to support your views. What is true is that all that dancing (lions included), and music will not help anyone towards spirituality, but certainly helpful in expressing faith, joy and happiness by lay-participants of the occasion. On the other hand, you don't see monks or nuns performing the dances, otherwise, they will be contravening the Vinaya rules. You don't see any 8-preceptors performing the dances or singing, otherwise, they will be breaking the 8-precepts. Incessant chanting whether or not being repetitive has a purpose of focusing the mind. Is focusing the mind not meditative? There are many Buddhist sects, each different from each other in their practice, yet the core teaching of The Buddha remains the same. Perhaps if you are eager to gain an insight into what Fo Guang Shan Monastery is doing (justice to Buddhism) you should join their rank, otherwise you as an outsider have no right to criticize them.

Hi Dontknwaboutanything, again this is just my personal take. There are two ways to get basic knowledge: 1. read up. And by this, start by reading Buddhist books that provide the basic information, and from there progress to more complex matters. There are two books that got me started, and they were written by Christmas Humprey. The books, "Buddhism" and "Buddhist Sutras" are paper-backs (Penguin?). You won't go far wrong with that approach unless you start with the deep end. 2. join a Buddhist temple that provide sunday classes, and you will not find any charlatans in those places. Start by joining a Theravaden Buddhist temple, Sri Lankan, Burmese or Thai as they will start by teaching basic stuff; stuff that was taught by the Buddha. In those places, besides being energetic (perform pujas and you are expected to help around), intellectual (you are expected to read and attend classes/lectures and even obtain a diploma in Buddhist studies), there are meditation classes, where you will be taught basic meditation techniques. The lineage? Shakyamuni Buddha, should be good enough isn't it?

There is another way of converting faith/hope to knowledge. Instead of chanting mantras and trust that deities will empower you with knowledge, why not enrol into a Buddhist sunday class? Just my suggestion. Unless of course if the knowledge you are seeking cannot be found in the Buddha-Dhamma as contained in the Tipitaka.

qicat at #17 has given you a good list of 18 rules. the key to a good zhangzhuang is a relaxed structure with an aligned chong mai, the central meridian, meaning that the 'meeting of hundreds', bai-wei, a pressure point on top of your head, is in line with the 'meeting of yin', wei-yin, between the anal opening and the sex organ. This alignment, besides ensuring the transmission of energy flow, will also ensure that the skeletal structure is not stressed. The chin is tucked in slightly, but not touching the chest. The pelvis, the butt, is also slightly tucked in. Collapse your chest, round the back and drop your elbows. When the rules say, pull-in, do so without force. You need to be doing it with a mental focus and with minimal force. Check the tension in your hands, fingers and the back. Release the tensions, and relax. Breathing should be gradual, slow, quiet and deep, regardless whether you are doing MCO with RAB or not. Check the stance whether it is too wide as it should be your shoulder width. The next time you are doing the practice, set up a video camera to your side and view how you have performed later. That should help you to correct any mistakes in your posture. Trust this will help you. Note: there are many versions of zhangzhuang, each school has its own version, and of course, "rules".

To address the question, What is a Buddha? Simply put, the word Buddha denotes an achievement, like MBA, PhD, the highest spiritual achievement in the pursuit of release from cyclical births and deaths. If a person is a Buddha, then he will not be 'reborn' within the 6 realms of existence. Besides, the word Buddha referring to the highest spiritual achievement of a person, the term is explained as 'The Awaken One', 'The Enlightened One'. After gaining his enlightenment, Buddha Shakyamuni was approached by a brahmin who found his bearing noble, holy and somewhat transfigured. The brahmin asked whether he was a god, and the Buddha replied, no. He was asked again whether he was a man, and similarly, he answered, no. Finally, the brahmin asked him who he was. He replied that he was Buddha. In this time period, there is only this One, only one Buddha, historically attested and that is Buddha Shakyamuni. Having said that, he was said to be the 28th Buddha in the lineage.So much for "One". There are two categories of Buddhas: the highest being Sammasambuddha, the next is Pacekabuddha. Buddha Shakyamuni is a Sammasambuddha. There are differences between the terms. As with tradition, the Buddha of the current time period would prophesied the next Buddha. Shakyamuni, in one of his previous births was prophesied by Buddha Dipankara to be a Buddha in a future time. Buddha Shakyamuni prophesied that Bodhisattva Meitriya would be the future Buddha after him. Pacekas are excluded from this 'requirement'.

There are more than three revelations that my teacher told me. I will just list three which I think are generally of interest: 1. it is difficult to find a good teacher or a good student, as both must satisfy the 6 'harmonies'. A teacher is like a father, honor, obey and respect him. A student is like your child, love and protect him/her always. Learn the techniques well, understand and apply them well in fluid situations. Teach well, and in time teach all that you know, and hope that your student can surpass you. 2. It is not learning a variety of forms to be a perfect martial artist, rather it is enough to learn and practice well a single form. By extension, 'be afraid of one who practise a single kick a thousand times'. 3. Be humble and don't be a show-off. No one system is better than the other, for each technique regardless of how powerful it is has its counter, even iron shirt has its weakness. There is always one that is better than you.

Don't think we are getting anywhere with this. The Path of Emancipation as laid down by The Buddha is straight, and very direct. If you think you know this path well, then by all means travel on it, and you will reach the One. There is no need to beat around the bush and get all dizzy after that, but by all means if running round and round gives you the pleasure, please continue. Let me travel that straight path to the One, perhaps, it is the different One from yours. Thank you for the conversation, and this will be my last post.

There are deviant teachings in the world today. When Ven. Ananda posed the question to the Buddha about how to differentiate a deviant teaching from His, his advice was to test the truthfulness and the correctness of a teaching by its wisdom (and principles) relative to what is taught by Him in His lifetime. That's the gist of His advice to Ven Ananda. The beauty of Buddhism is that everyone is welcome to experience the Buddha's dhamma. "Ehipassiko", to be approached to be seen. The invitation is for anyone to come and see for themselves. The Buddha's Dhamma is approachable, can be experienced, and tested. " Well-expounded is the Dhamma by the Blessed One. To be realized; with immediate results. To be approached, to be seen. Capable of being entered upon; To be realized by the wise, each by himself." Interestingly, what is One? A question posed to a novice monk, Sopaka of 7 years old. Again, what is this One (ref. Anguttara Nikaya I.22)? Lastly, what is the One and Only, the sum total of Buddhism (ref. Samyutta Nikaya, I.236)? Yes, 84,000 teachings or dhammas. Vinaya Pitaka: 21,000 'units'; Sutta Pitaka: 21,000 'units', and Adhidhamma Pitaka: 42,000 'units'. Each unit, can be either one theme of the discourses, one explanation of the background in the discourses, one portion of questioning, or one portion of answering. (ref. The Gandhavamsa, "The Descriptive Analysis of Numerical Terms in Buddhism" by Ven. K. Dhammasiri). You said: "the 82,000 teachings of Buddha and 2000 teachings of Bodhisattva's". The words said by Ven. Ananda were: " Dvasiti Buddhato ganhi Dve sahassani bhikkhuto Catura sitisahassani Yeme dhamma pavattito" Translation: "82,000 I received from the Buddha, 2,000 from the bhikkus. These 84,000 are current teachings." (source: Theragatha I.1024) Notes: Bhikkus, means monks. Units of dhammas: Dhammakkhandas, kind of measurement of the Buddha's teachings. There is no definite number of sentences or verses for a unit of Dhamma. They are classified with reference to the Three Pitakas stated earlier.

The greatest gift is the gift of Truth. Whether it is the Medicine Buddha is holding court in a temple instead of Shakyamuni Buddha who is addressed as "bern si fo" or roughly translated as the "original teacher buddha" is immaterial as long as the teachings in the sutras have a bearing to the teachings, the Dharma of Shakyamuni Buddha. From the Kalama Sutta, the Buddha sets the "check-list" for later Buddhists to find out whether the "later-teachings" after His Parinibbana is true to what he taught. If it is not, then it is not his teaching and should be discarded; if it is, then adhere and abide to the teachings.

Thank you Mark Foote for "What keeps it alive for me is this notion that Olaf Blanke has put forward, that our sense of self, especially the self that is associated with our sense of location, is a result of the coordnation of the vestibular and proprioceptive senses, along with the senses of vision and of gravity. Distinguishing these senses contributes to their coordination, as far as I can tell, and the lower dan-tien is really an experience of that sense of location in the surrender of activity in the movement of breath, behind (and usually below) the navel." It kept me alive as well, an experience in awareness.

In the book, "The Tao of Taijiquan, Way to Rejuvenation" written by Jou, Tsung Hwa, a well-known taijichuan expert, in Chapter 3 Foundation, page 141 wrote "....During exhalation, the two qi's separate, the post-birth qi leaves the body through the nose, while the pre-birth qi sinks to the dantian, a point found three finger-widths below the navel and two finger-widths inside, causing the lower abdomen to expand." Can he be also taught wrong, and hence teaching others wrongly as well? Those of practising taijichuan in the States would know who this Jou Tsung Hwa is and do need not any introduction. I've made my point about where is this lower dan tian.

Since the lower dan tian is a general ‘area’ of energy, it can cover a couple of pressure points, Qihai and Guanyuan. However, there is one translated Chinese passage that said the Guanyuan que, that point 3-inch below the navel is the (lower) dan tian. That passage was said to come from China’s national acupuncture academy. Under the heading, Xi Que Yang Shen Fa, “The Four Pressure Points in the Cultivation of Health”, Guanyuan que is also named as Dan Tian, three inch below the navel, is one of the person’s important points. I’ve here an extract, edited, from Wikipedia that also maintained that the LDT is 3-inch below the navel. Can both and those ‘experts’ referenced in the article be wrong? However, having said that, I’ve also read from other sources that similar to what is taught in SFQ, LDT is behind the navel. I suppose that to each his own and practise well what is being taught, be it behind (small intestines?) or below the navel. What is important is to experience the effectiveness of either location. If a location does not result in, for want of a better word, ‘storing’ energy, than dump it. My experience with 3-inch below the navel is by far without problems. An extract (edited) on Dan Tian from Wikipedia. Quote Dantian From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Dantian, dan t'ian, dan tien or tan t'ien is loosely translated as "elixir field", "sea of qi", or simply "energy center". Dantian are the Qi Focus Flow Centers, important focal points for meditative and exercise techniques such as qigong, martial arts such as t'ai chi ch'uan, and in traditional Chinese medicine.[1][2] Overview Historically the first detailed description of the lower Dantian is in the Laozi zhongjing 老子中經 from the 3rd century CE, it refers to the Cinnabar field where Essence and Spirit are stored, it is related to regeneration and sexual energy, menstruation and semen.[3] Traditionally, a dantian is considered to be a center of qi or life force energy.[1][2] The dantian are important points of reference in neidan, qigong, neigong, tao yin, Taoist sexual practices, Reiki[4] and other self-cultivation practices of exercise, breathing, and meditation, as well as in martial arts and in traditional Chinese medicine. The lower dantian is particularly important as the focal point of breathing technique as well as the centre of balance and gravity. Dantian are focal points for transmutation of the three treasures Jing, Qi and Shen. Qi can be seen as a substance when it is stored in the form of Essence or Jing, this can be refined by heating in these cauldrons into more rarefied states such as Qi which is insubstantial and further still into Shen which is more like the Western concept of Mind although it is more often translated as Spirit.[5] Taoist and Buddhist teachers often instruct their students to centre the mind in the navel or lower dantian. This is believed to aid control of thoughts and emotions. Acting from the dantian is considered to be related to higher states of awareness or samadhi. The Taoist concept of dantian as energy centers is similar to the Indian yoga concept of chakras as key points where prana is stored (see also nadis). The major difference, however, is that Taoist dantian are the major energetic storage mechanisms whereas the yogic chakras are not so much storage centers, but energetic vortices which act as intake and output ports. Many traditions consider the dantian and the chakras to be separate, albeit cooperative energetic mechanisms. Three dantians Different schools of thought categorize dantian in various manners. Three main dantian are typically emphasized:[1][2] Lower dantian (下丹田, Xià Dāntián): below the navel (about three finger widths below and two finger widths behind the navel), which is also called "the golden stove" (金炉 pinyin: Jīn lú) or the namesake "cinnabar field" proper, where the process of developing the elixir by refining and purifying essence (jing) into vitality (qi) begins.[6] Middle dantian (中丹田, Zhōng Dāntián): at the level of the heart, which is also called "the crimson palace", associated with storing Spirit (Shen) and with respiration and health of the internal organs, in particular the thymus gland. This cauldron is where vitality or Qi is refined into Shen or spirit;[7] Upper dantian (上丹田, Shàng Dāntián): at the forehead between the eyebrows or third eye, which is also called "the muddy pellet", associated with the pineal gland. This cauldron is where Shen or spirit is refined into Wu Wei or emptiness.[5][8] Importance of the lower dantian The term dantian used by itself usually refers to the lower dantian, which is considered to be the foundation of rooted standing, breathing, and body awareness in qigong, Chinese martial arts, and other martial arts.[9] The lower dantian has been described to be "like the root of the tree of life".[2] In speaking of the lower of the three energy centers, the term dantian is often used interchangeably with the Japanese word hara (腹; Chinese: fù) which means simply "belly". In Chinese, Korean, and Japanese traditions, it is considered the physical center of gravity of the human body and is the seat of one's internal energy (qi). A master of calligraphy, swordsmanship, tea ceremony, martial arts, among other arts, is held in the Japanese tradition to be "acting from the hara". The lower dantian corresponds to the yoga concept of the swadhisthana chakra. In yoga philosophy, it is thought to be the seat of prana that radiates outwards to the entire body.[10] References 1.Yang, Jwing-Ming. (1989). The root of Chinese Chi kung: the secrets of Chi kung training. Yang's Martial Arts Association. ISBN 0-940871-07-6. 2.Cohen, K. S. (1999). The Way of Qigong: The Art and Science of Chinese Energy Healing. Random House of Canada. ISBN 0-345-42109-4. 3.Laozi zhongjing (Central Scripture of Laozi), sec. 17. Translation published in Fabrizio Pregadio, "Early Daoist Meditation and the Origins of Inner Alchemy", in Benjamin Penny, ed., Daoism in History: Essays in Honour of Liu Ts'un-yan, 139-40 (London: Routledge, 2006). http://www.goldenelixir.com/taoism/texts_laozi_zhongjing.html 4.http://www.aetw.org/reiki_ifaq6.htm#9 5.T'ai Chi Ch'uan and Meditation by Da Liu, page 92 - Routledge and Keegan Paul 1987 ISBN 0-14-019217-4 6.Taoist Yoga by Lu K'uan Yu page 10. (Rider , 1970) This area is associated with the Sea of Qi. 7.http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/dantian.html 8.The doctrine of the elixir by R. B. Jefferson Coombe Springs Press 1982 chapter 4. The Archaic Anatomy of Individual Organs 9."Power Generation in Martial Arts: Axis, the Spine, and the Center". Full Potential Martial Arts. Retrieved 27 March 2015. 10.T'ai Chi Ch'uan and Meditation by Da Liu, pages 91-92 - Routledge and Keegan Paul 1987 ISBN 0-14-019217-4 Chia, Mantak. Cosmic Orbit: Connect to the Universe from Within. Universal Tao Publications, 2005. ISBN 974-85401-4-6. Jefferson, R.B. Doctrine of the Elixir. Coombe Springs Press, 1982. ISBN 0-900306-15-7. Full text here Lu K'uan Yu. Taoist Yoga. Rider, 1970. ISBN 0-7126-1725-6. Porkert, Manfred. The Theoretical Foundations of Chinese Medicine. MIT Press, 1974. ISBN 0-262-16058-7. Rouselle, Irwin. ‘Spiritual Guidance in Contemporary Taoism’. In Spiritual Disciplines: Papers from the Eranos Yearbooks. Princeton University Press, 1960. ISBN 0-691-01863-4. Wang, Mu. Foundations of Internal Alchemy: The Taoist Practice of Neidan. Golden Elixir Press, 2011. ISBN 978-0-9843082-5-5. External links Doctrine of the Elixir - On the conception of the Dan Tian in Daoist cosmology. Dan Tian in the Internal Martial Arts - Explanation of Dan Tian use in the martial arts. An Shigao and Early Chinese Meditation Techniques - Phra Kiattisak Kittipanyo DIRI Journal Volume 1 pp. 98–118. Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dantian&oldid=768784281" This page was last modified on 5 March 2017, at 19:41. Unquote

I would support Mudfoot of his #20. We do have 2 positions of LDT, one behind the navel, and the other 3 'inch' below the navel. Some call that point below the navel as Ocean/sea of Qi, Qihai, JM6, however, this point on the Conception Vessel is only 1 1/2 'inch' below the navel. It is therefore, not Qihai, but Guanyuan JM4 which is exactly 3 'inch' below the navel. To locate these two points for needle insertion, the person must lie down. On the other hand, Shenque, JM8 is in the middle of the navel. What then is behind JM8, the navel? There is a point named as Zhenxue which is the mid-point between the navel and Mingmen. This point is directly above Huiyin and is mentioned in the system of “opening the 8-extraordinary meridians”. However, I could not find the point, Zhenxue in the “anatomical charts of the acupuncture points and 14 meridians”. Perhaps, acupuncturists in our midst can lend a hand? Is dan tien, a general area, that some systems pin-point the LDT as behind the navel whereas, others maintained it to be the Guanyuan point? And will the point behind the navel which is located in the supine position move downwards below the navel when the person stands up? But if there is such as point named Zhenxue, then how could a pressure point be moved up and down? In the link provided by Apeiron&peiron, it mentioned that the fluid flows down from ‘LDT’ and is gathered below the navel. The point, Guanyuan has been used in many qigong and martial practices and is the point that I find it easier to use in RAB then the point behind the navel. However, I must add that in the ‘opening of the 8 extraordinary meridians, the mysterious point Zhenxue is used (but not as a storage point, dan tien). I will continue using Guanyuan, 3-inch below the navel as the LDT.

Thank you, Apeiron&Peiron for the link. It opens up a new horizon for me.

From my understanding, Yijinjing requires the exhalation through the mouth. The Tendon Changing Classic is Buddhist and natural abdominal breathing is used. Embracing the Tree, Standing the Post, Hug, Zhanzhuang are common names of a particular static pose, but the breathing system differs from one practice (school) to another. To answer your rephrased question, i would suggest to choose a practice that uses the same breathing system as Yijinjing. Breathing system is important in the development of qi. but, getting the physicals right at the beginning is definitely important before concerning with the breathing system. It is unwise to impose your breathing technique/system, eg RAB onto Yijinjing practice when it is NAB. Same consideration is given to MCO. The Chinese MCO system is not the same as Pranayama. Don't mix them up.

I had for years regard Qigong as the umbrella classification for both soft and hard qigong and neigong. That comprises also jinggong, and donggong. In another thread, a member enlightened me that the term Qigong was used in the 1950s by the Chinese Government to include also neigong practices. There is indeed a distinction, though fine, between neigong and qigong. However, there is no harm in grouping both practices together. The Tendon Changing Classic is very similar to classical yoga and as it requires 'gong', persistent effort, to lengthen tendons as the pathway to better health. Whether or not you could practise Yijinjing with other forms of qigong practice depends on your teacher's advice. But if you are practising without a teacher, then the primary consideration should be the breathing system. My suggestion is to choose the other system with the same breathing method.

Dear DSCB57, After viewing the videos, I've second thoughts about what I wrote about the Tiger and Crane Combination Fist. Though within the Southern Shaolin Hung-gar lineage(s), there are a few versions of this set, it was GM Lam Sai Weng who started an off-shoot from his Wong Fei Hung lineage, and called it "Tiger and Crane Double-Form P'ai". I've here a link of a master demonstrating the set (from the Wong Fei Hung lineage). He was already advanced in years and lack the vitality to really show the stamina, strength and ferocity of the movements. If what was taught to you looked similar, then the set was Hung-gar's not Eng Choon Pek Hok's. Versions of the set from other Hung-gar lineages are shorter. For thread #78: Tiger and Crane Combination Fist:

Hi New2Qigong, concerning what I wrote about RAB, I should caution you that the method I described are for breathing in and out through the nose, and not for a breathing system using the mouth. But, if that is what is being taught by your teacher, then so be it. i should have watch the videos on SFQ first before replying to you.

Hi New2Qigoing, the point 'behind the navel' lies in the centre of the body, between the spine and the navel. That point is on the Chong Mai (Centre meridian), and is not the dan tien. Will have to check the meridian charts for the name if it is important. On RAB breathing, if your chest rises with every breath you take, then it is not correct. The breathing should not be forced nor forceful. You can place one hand on the spot below the navel and feel the rising and falling of the breath in the LDT.

Location of LDT: it is 3-finger width along the centre-line below your navel. Reverse Abdominal Breathing: the instruction is correct that when you breathe in, the LDT (not the whole abdomen) is pulled in, and when breathing out, expands outwards. There is more to RAB than what has been told to you by your teacher. You may have to put in some time before going to the next stage. RAB is 'reverse' diaphragm breathing. Do not use your chest, 'collapse' your chest, 'round' the back when doing the RAB. I'm not a SFQ practitioner.

I've not learnt any White Crane, Tibetan or Fukien, least of all 'Sun and Frost' White Crane. If FPQ is giving you the results, then do stay with it. There are more than 2000 types of qigong and each one tested for their efficacies. The difference between each type is the quality of instruction and the depth of knowledge on the one hand, and the aptitude and seriousness of the student. Sometimes, the student can surpass the teacher in terms of knowledge and development. I always have the Kalama Sutta in mind.