Sudhamma

II am a Buddhist with the Theravaden tradition and am ignorant with Daoism terms like yangshen (positive energy?). Therefore, I won't be able to comment on Daoist principles and terms in depth. On the other hand, I will share my little Buddhist knowledge with anyone who is willing to hear and appreciate, of course, I stand to be corrected for whatever errors or misunderstanding I may have on Buddhism. And, the subject here is 'Sudden Enlightenment' posted by A.A.Khokhlov. I've read postings in other topics and surprised that some didn't have even an ioata of patience and civilness or stay focus on the subject without being abusive. Some of us do really need this sudden enlightenment to stay on track to obtain the treasured Dao. Given the multiple faiths being 'represented' in TDB, there bound to be dissenting views on issues being discussed. Can't we agree to disagree?

@LaoZiDao, 'Gui Xian': Gui meaning Devil, a Hell being, Xian meaning an Immortal. Being an immortal in the realm of Hell(s), is a rebirth from the human realm to a hellish realm. Any being existing within any of the 6 Realms, including the Heavens are subjected to Samsara and hence subject to the cause and effect of karma. I suppose that in your spiritual training, you have been taught tangent to this typical and standard Buddhist belief. To stop samsaric existence, karma needs to be expired.

Hi Gerard, can explain the last quotation "Three monks have no water to drink"? How does this imply that too many cooks spoil the broth? Thank you

Sudden Enlightenment is the key objective of Tibetan Buddhism. The Historical Buddha, in the suttas, spoke of his numerous rebirths(500) and the practice of Perfections (Paramitas) in the cycle of births before coming to his final birth. In the Tibetan tradition, the practice requires the total annihilation of karmas in one's current life-time so that there is no more rebirth. An Arhant is a non-Returner. The process of enlightenment requires knowing what is Ignorance, the opposite to being enlightened, how it (ignorance) can be removed and be replaced with greater wisdom. The Buddha spoke of 7 factors of Enlightenment and can be referred to if you wish to have more information on this fascinating subject on the path to emancipation.

Stop your qigong practice. Do simple breathing awareness exercise: choose a quiet and cool place, sit comfortably and be aware of your breathing. Whenbreathing in, tell yourself that you are breathing in, and do the same for breathing out. Breathing slow and deep without any rhymn. When there is distracting thought, be aware, telling yourself that there is this distracting thought, then put it away, and refocus on the breathing. Meanwhile, consult a good qigong master to rebalance your qi. Meanwhile, seriously no more practice.

Hi Desmonddf, 'Wei-Dan' is not about projecting and manipulating external qi. Wei-Dan, do correct me if I'm mistaken, is the use the external source of qi as the primary means to nourish your internal system. Reiki is such a wei-dan system. Both external (wei) and internal (nei) system of qi nourishment and development can allow the practitioner to reach a level where qi emission is possible. Sure, when the "gong" is not done correctly, then there will be pains and other problems. This is the question that you want to answer. As you have said, if it is not done correctly, you will have back pains and heaviness of your head. I can't comment on your rhymnic breathing methods, you should check with the person teaching you the system. If there is qi stagnation causing those headaches, then you should pay attention on the qi flow and to bring down the qi to the lower dantein and focus on your yungchuen points, and if it is the breathing method, then perhaps abandon it altogether and start from the beginning stage.

Hi, Desmonddf, To my own knowledge, if during or after the Qigong practice, there is a backache or a heaviness of head, there is something not right of the training. Backache: weakness of yang Kidney, and heaviness of head: stagnation of qi. I'm in no position to offer any advice on your elaborate practice. However, mixing different practices may be ill-conceived. If I were a Reiki master and adapt in harvesting external qi, I would have continued to master the the art and proceed to complete the Wei-Dan practice before going into Nei-Dan.

The Buddha said to Angulimala: "I've stopped, have you?". A single sentence spoken by the Buddha to a murderous Angulimala, stopping the latter in his track who was pursuing the Buddha. Angulimala was later converted and became one of the Buddha's foremost disciples. "I've stopped, have you?"

According to my limited understanding, 'dan' is translated as 'elixir', the term 'wei' means external, and 'nei' internal. So much had been said of the nurture and culture of this elixir. Wei Dan, is the conscious harvesting of 'external' energy to nurture and culture of this elixir, but wei dan itself is not sufficient to charge oneself if without the method to conserve and store this energy within the body, hence the importance of Nei Dan. Both Wei and Nei Dan are mere means, methods of self-cultivation of this 'energy' within the mortal body for the intended transformation. What is also essential is the parallel cultivation of ethnics and spiritual development which will also transform oneself on the spiritual level. This is where the understanding and practise of Daoism is important to ensure the effectiveness of the dan that one has so arduously cultivate. This is also when Gods and Immortals within the spectrum of Daoist religious belief system will come to aid the cultivator to progress towards spiritual upliftment. Daoist, I believe, call this godly mentoring as spiritual guidance, a personal guardian angel, fufashen. So when the culivator has outlived his/her life-span, his/her spirit will 'live on', a rebirth in the spiritual/heavenly realms, he/she becomes a xian, an immortal, a god.

The Elixir is not a 'thing'. it is an achievement, an attainment by the aspirant, normally a Daoist in training. It is not a 'spiritual' achievement, perhaps supernatural because with it, the person becomes an Immortal. However, can anyone attain physical immortality? I don't know. Even Laozi, the "founder" of Daoism had to die though he was said to be a reincarnation of Taishanglauzhun, the diety that Xiao Yao Pai honoured. Or even Chang Sanfeng, the founder of Wudang martial arts, said to have lived through the Ming and Yuan Dynasties (easily 300 years), an accomplished Daoist, had to pass on. Lu Dongping, a diety of one of the 8-Immortals (Ba-xian), did not survive physically to these modern days, except in his spiritual form. So much for physical immortality, in my books. They all die, dan or no dan, except those with dan takes a longer time to pass on than the common man.

Circle walking with an emphasis on stepping is a 'lian gong' foundation requirement. There are about 4 types of 'walking' with chicken stepping, mud-sliding, low stance stepping, and high stance (natural quick step) being taught respectively by respective schools of Baquazhang. Chicken stepping: Yin lineage, especially of the Gong Bao Tien's school; Mud-sliding: Cheng lineage; Low-stance: Ma Gui lineage. Normally, the 'lian gong' stepping is the foundational training of ding-zhi 8 mother palms. In respect to the various schools, the linear walking must also be in line with the stepping requirements of your school.

Thank you for this post on Taijichuan styles. I appreciate the inputs you guys have posted and especially that from Steve. He was concise and 'technical'. My Taijichuan journey began with Wu-jia, some 40+ years ago, but gave it all up because, no applications were taught. Then it was Chen's xiaojia and learnt and appreciated some fajing within the taulu. About 20 years ago, I was taught Ma yungsheng's Taijichuan. This was interesting. Ma yungsheng was invited to teach his taijichuan sometime in 1928 to students of Nanjing Central Wushu Academy. At that time, China was transgressed by Imperial Japan and the Chinese government of the time, the Kuomingtang (KMT) wanted to train martial artists to spread their skills throughout the country. That was the period of sending 5 Northern martial artists to Southern China. These 5 were known as 5 Tigers going to Chiangnan, "Wu Fu Xia Chiangnan". They were recognized to have introduced Northern Shaolin, and Baquazhang to Guangdong. Coming back to Ma yungsheng, he wrote in this boxing manual that if anyone was to ask of the lineage of his taijichuan, his answer would be that he had collectively mould the key elements of various schools into his taijichuan and that the 13 movements of Taijichuan were represented in his set. He called his taijichuan, New Taijichuan, but later practitioners would renamed it as Baqua Taijichuan or Ma-jia Taijichuan. Given the period of China's history, it was no surprise that his set was designed for fighting. I have a background with Northern Shaolin and could discerned elements of Northern Shaolin, Baquazhang and Piqua in his creation. I find Ma yungsheng's originality refreshing.

This is missing in the various contributions, that is, the Chinese phrase, han siong ba bei, meaning, stretch the back forward, hunching the back, empty the lungs, thus curving the chest inwards. What the quoted text of author master Lam is instructing is the beginning movement of the micro-cosmic-orbit with reverse abdominal breathing. Just the beginning stage of mco. Quite correct is the breathing is only through the nose, and done silently like what is commonly said, 'like that of a rabbit'. Trust this helps.

To be dogmatically Buddhist, one should have taken the three refuges in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha, observe the 5 precepts, believe in karma (its generation and cessation) and act in accordance. The most basic Teaching of all the Buddhas; Do good, don't do evil. The 227 rules in Vinaya defines behaviour of the members of the Sangha and strictly prohibits homosexuality within the Order. That being the case, homosexuality amongst the laity will also be frowned upon. As for Daoism, the balance of the Universe brings about benefits to all within the sphere. And to maintain order and balance, both Yang and Yin should be in harmony. Man is considered Yang, and Woman, Yin. The balance of nature is maintained with the interaction of Yang + Yin qualities of equal intensity. The opposite therefore, , Yang + Yang or Yin + Yin do not bring about harmony and balance. I stand to be corrected.

The steppings done during 'lian gong' period are for specific training of the stepping and legs when doing the circle-walking. However when one is doing the form, e,g, 64 palms, the strenuous stepping whether it is chicken or mud-sliding is not used. Lian gong is putting in (extra) effort, just like zhan zhuang, is a stationery 'lian gong' form. Chicken stepping is used in Yin linege, as well as Yin Pai Gong Men. Besides chicken and mud sliding steppings, there are other forms of walking as well.

Perhaps current DVDs on CMA are better controlled for better quality of instructions and beneficial to those who has good foundational training. Both Gerard and GreyToWhite are saying the same thing if the screaming is deleted. I have a student who had spent 10 years training T'an T'ui routine from a DVD before coming under my wings to relearn T'an T'ui. However, it took me quite a while and alot of cursing to get rid of his bad habits before I was satisfied (with a generous give-and-take) with him. Training CMA DVDs are never good for beginners, teachers are required. When Baquazhang was first introduced to the world by Founder Dong Hai Chuan, his first few students had prior CMA training and imparting skills to them were easier. I could appreciate this fact after learning Baquazhang for these many years. Therefore beginners without good CMA foundation wanting to learn Baquazhang from DVDs should consider what are their priorities and objective of learning the skills in the absence of face-to-face instructions. It is perfectly OK for beginners to learn the movements just to do some physical exercise without considering the minimum level of perfections demanded by the MA form.

Hi Ilya, There are, if my memory is still good, 4 breathing techniques in Chinese qigong practices. The diaphramic is one, and itself has two variations, one is known as fetal (like that of a baby) and the other, reverse abdominal. It was said that fetal breathing improves the mortal being (Man) whereas, reverse abdominal promotes immortality (Sein). Therefore, reverse abdominal is the preferred system in Daoism. To promote immortality in Daoism requires the nurturing of the seed which Daoist call the Dan, commonly translated as Elixir. The seed, Dan is seated, stored in the abdoman below the navel, and is known as the lower dan-tien, the lower field of elixir. The qigong technique in breathing generates internal energy, qi and this internal breath promotes health and with a healthy body, there is less sicknesses, and perhaps, the practitioner may live longer beyond the average life-span. Some qigong systems do not emphasize on MCO (both micro and macro) while most Daoist systems do. It is believed that MCO will transform the body on the cellular level and modern science confirms that with the expedient removal of oxidants and toxins at the cellular level, the cells are healthier, the host is healthier and perhaps even younger. There lies the emphasis of MCO with this diaphramic breathing. Disclaimer: that is MINE understanding and I can be wrong afterall, I'm just a beginner and still learning.

The attributes of an accomplished arhant is in the Buddha-Dhamma. Feel free to check it out. Don't need to be a medical doctor to know another. To Cheshire Cat, you may like to check the web-site of The Pali Society on the Mahayana Canon.

Firstly there are many paths to cross to the other shore. Some are direct, taking the shortest route, some goes round and round and wayfarers can lose their way because of the lack of clear direction. But given time, effort, knowledge, wisdom and concentration, the other shore can be reached. Buddhism is one route, the shortest possible complete with road signs and a map, the Buddha-Dhamma. However, crossing to the other shore do not require the belief of an Omiscient Entity. The question of God in the context of Buddhism centres on whether all living creatures and the world are God's creation. There is one poetic verse given by a contributor here that rhetorically denies the existence of such a God. There is also a sutta that recounted that even the Almighty God, MahaBrahma, did not even know how he came about and asked the enquirer to check with the Buddha. The Buddha himself upon attaining Enlightenment under the banyan tree exclaimed that he could not find the 'builder of this house (self)'. He can't find the Creator God. So at this point, I have to make a distinction between Gods and the Creator God. Within the 6 realms of existence, there are heavenly realms (may correspond to the 'many mansions' in the Bible) inhabited by Gods of both with forms and formless, each realm ruled by a God-head, eg MahaBrahma in a realm known as the 33 heavens. During the exposition of the first sermon, The Turning of the Wheel, various Gods from various heavenly realms exclaimed in joy. But no Creator God. The Gods are in their realms because of their store of virtues and karma, and they too are subjected to samsaric existence. If gods are even subjected to the unending cycle of births and deaths like any person, they would not hold the key to the ultimate release. If you are to look for this ultimate release from samsara, won't you look towards the Buddha-Dhamma?

Quite right that this secret teaching is closely resembling 'shen da' where the practitioner is guided by an external force after initiation ( xiao yao pai's tau yin shu?). If we are going to be dogmatic and confines to the printed word, various contributors here saying that this secret teaching practice is unbuddhistic is certainly correct. But we cannot ignore the fact that there are Buddhist practices that are supernatural. The Buddha himself had performed miracles in his early stage of propagating his Dhamma until the last one when he manifested himself in multiple forms during a challenge with the (king's appointed) priest in a king's court. After winning that challenge he forbade his followers from performing miracles to convert lay people. There is also a chant handed down by the Buddha to ward off evil spells. That chant is not translated, and has to be said in the Pali language. In the Theravaden daily chanting, there is a verse that shares the merit of the daily observance with devas (gods), bhutta (the elements, ancestors) and satta (sentient beings). Quite often to evoke blessings on the sick for quicker recovery, special chanting of special suttas are said. Years ago, my wife was suffering from acute insomnia for more than a week and had to be hospitalised. I arranged for a special chanting in a temple for her that evening at about 8PM and checked on her the next day. I was told that she slept without medication at about 9:30PM the previous night. Yet, all these do not deviate the Buddhist from the path laid down by the Buddha. May you be well and happy always! Sabbe satta sukhita hontu!

Who is considered an arhant? The historical Buddha is an Arhant of the superlative level. Being an arhant means that he/she has removed that last fetter that cause rebirth into any plane of existence. No more samsaric existence which by the way, also dictates all heavenly abodes including those of immortals. Immortals are within the realms of gods. Arhants and Buddhas are not as they have ended the cycle of rebirths within the six planes of existence, heavens included.

To Cheshire Cat, you can refer to the Pali Canon published by The Pali Society, UK for the Buddhist scriptures whihch can be cross-referenced with the Chinese Buddhist Canons. To SeekerOfHealing, Anapansati meditation, 'watching the breadth' is a practise of awareness and mental concentration. There is no MCO nor its stages, no cultivation of qi, no chakras either, no hui-yin nor bai-hui, no storing of qi into the dan-tien. Buddhist breathing meditation demand natural breathing using the lungs, not diaphramic, and so, how to develop any 'orbit' without qi cultivation, without focusing on the points of both du and ren mai to accomplish a basic mco. Rhetorically, can MCO happen naturally? The primary objective of Buddhist meditation is not mco nor the cultivation of qi or any alchemic training of nei dan, but to rein in the 'monkey' mind before going into absorptions or jhanics stages. It is during this absorption meditations, the 4 jhanas, that the successful meditator (becoming an arhant) can develop superhuman abilities, but it is not the motive of the practice. Even in this advance stage of meditation, there is no mco, no nei dan.

Dear Sagebrush, You may like to visit this site: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/462678?journalCode=hr to address your question on the subject of Immortality in Daoism. Dear SeekerOfHealing, Before the Buddha decided to end his existence on earth, he was asked by his chief retainer Ven. Ananda whether there was anything that was not taught to him. The answer was no. One could check all the suttas and sutras of both traditions for dhamma deviations relating to "MCO and other stuff" and such an exercise will fail. Even in Vispassana, breathing and walking meditations, there is no "MCO and other stuff, nor anything that was unspoken.

The gaol of Buddhism is not the same as Daoism. The emphasis differs with Buddhism seeking Nibannic Bliss and cessation of samsaric existence, while Daoism, the attainment of immortality. Of the various Buddhist methods of meditation as taught by the Buddha (within the Theravaden tradition), none emphasized on sounds=emotions=organs (6 Sounds); the breathing meditation of the Buddhist is not the same as MCO.

1. Buddhist Vipassana meditation has nothing in common with MCO or ZZ. 2. Most Qigong masters of the Daoist tradition refuse to teach MCO to their students, preferring to try it out themselves. I can't comment on other traditions. The fears are real and they have been expressed here by contributors. 3. MCO is powerful, and Macro CO is even more so. One of the problems associated with these orbits is stroke. It comes about when the student's blood vessels are no longer pliable, but thickens and rigid through the natural process of aging. And when qi began to circulates in a powerful manner, the vessels burst. Another problem is qi stagnation because the instruction to bring down the qi or to move it with proper mental intent is absent. This will give rise to a host of health and mental issues. 4. Most Daoist qigong systems require to incorporate MCO inorder for the student to progress within a shorter time frame, otherwise, the practice is stuck at a low-level. However, given point 3 above, the teacher must exercise extreme caution when teaching MCO. I've seen some qigong videos with a system of MCO taught without much details which should not 'short-circuit' anyone following them. I'll say that they are quite safe unless the student overly emphasize the orbit.