mvingon

Perhaps there's an equilibrium.

"The Republicans are being just as childish..." Just as? They opposed and blocked every single decent thing the could, that Obama wanted to do, even those that were their ideas until Obama wanted to do them, because black blackity black black black. Obamacare could have been Romney care, which was successfully implemented in the state Romney governed. People got really mad because Reverend Wight rightly said during a sermon that "America's chickens have come home to roost," buy had diddley, to say about xenu and thetans and magic underwear.

I came back to this, for a reason, bubbles. You really don't know anything about shad or me. I'm a boomer. I definitely do NOT need a parent, to look after me. I can not control behavior. I CAN and DO deal with them, when I have to do so, or avoid them when I do NOT have to do so. Perhaps you may do us the kindness of worrying about your behavior, instead of ASS-U-MEing ANYTHING about me, and possibly shad, since he's made it clear you know nothing about him. You actually remind me a LOT of one of my parents, who is NPD and probably in the beginning or middle of Alzheimer's disease. I've severe rheumatoid arthritis AND fibromyalgia, AND c-ptsd. Fibromyalgia and c-ptsd MOST likely from dealing with parents. Not that THAT is yours or anyone else's business, and most certainly not bc I THINK you give the first flying fig about anyone or anyone's perspective, outside your own little teeny-tiny world view. And I will NOT have anyone abusing that information. Quite frankly, you can eff right off with your rude, sanctimonious jackassery, and if anyone wants to hit that report button and/or ban, and/or suspend me, feel free. You disgust me bubbles.

Fine with me. Don't let anyone scare you away. We seem to be an opinionated and very diverse group. Sometimes, we could all be a bit more diplomatic, but I've found really good ideas, in almost everyone's posts, that I've had time, strength and energy to read.

"protesting" is for losers,' Alienate much?

P.S. what has been *called* communism is really just fascism. Please read "The Communist Manifesto." There are good and bad ideas in it. But if you haven't read it and are talking about "communism," you're really just full of yourself. Btw, the idea was, iirc, social democracy>socialism>communism>anarchy.

Holy smokes! Can any of us set aside polarities and preconceived/indoctrinated notions, in this thread? I'm not saying my ideas are perfect, but I am saying that we can agree on a common reality, to an extent. I am saying it is not "us vs them." We are them, they are us! After we find the points upon which we can somewhat agree are true, for this point in time, we can begin to sort out the differences (bearing in mind that we simply are not going to agree on everything, all the time). That does not make this or that point of view dumb, stupid, or whatever other labels we hurl at each other true. What it does do is create a false dichotomy, and false divide. Divide and conquer, folks... Which was the whole point of the title, of this thread. Smh. 'I would remind the readers of this thread that the first- and second-generation American Progressive intellectual/political elite were big fans of Mussolini, Lenin, Stalin and Hitler until it became expedient to not be. Then they announced that part of that crowd were really "the other guys." Yes. But just because we did things badly, in the past is no reason we can't improve on ideas, today. If nature didn't evolve (adapt), it would die out. If we humans and our ideas don't evolve, we will die out, and take the whole planet and every beautiful, natural thing with us. There are many valuable truths, in this thread, and I knew there would be. I should like to address them all, and the bad ones, too. I do not know there will be time, before I go offline, for a while. After that, access will be limited and spotty, for a while. But the point is, infighting and false divides do exactly what tpb intends it to do: make us complacent, compliant, or GIVE UP. I would hope while I am away that people can continue this conversation, and be a little more willing to listen to each side. Take common ideas and expand on them, and listen to the points that are contentious with item hearts and minds, and try to find a common ground. Good luck, everyone. Will be spotty, at best, for now. Try not to be too disappointed (jokes).

"I am tired of hearing how one party is superior to the other when that is incorrect they are two sides to one coin." Exactly! One is just willing to give us a little meat scrap on the bone to keep us more quiet! They know when the people are hungry, the people will revolt. The people are not ready for anarchy. Look how ugly we are, with government! Communism has never been put into practice. And I don notlike every idea of it, like destroying millennia of art, history, religious texts. Great Britain was doing a decent job of social democracy, for a short while, after the second great war. Then they fell into capitalism, which is really just privatized profit, public loss. Capitalism could have been great, if strong regulation had remained in place. Maybe. I think all the wealth being concentrated into the hands of corporation and government is a really bad idea. I think people should be paid fair wages, pay fair prices for products (can anyone guess what Americans would be paying for fossil fuel, without heavy federal subsidies? That's corporate welfare. Can a European please tell us what a litre of petrol costs, without subsides, where you live?), HAVE universal health care, rather than "keep them alive and doped up, so as to squeeze every last drop of qi and soul and mind from them, before we leave them to suffer and die quietly, in a heap in the corner," and other viscous violence, etcetera. Why are so many in such serious need, in the richest country on earth? It's a rather salient incongruousness. I've heard expressed that necessities should be wholly subsidized, luxuries not. I really, really like that idea. Good, sturdy, weatherproof housing, quality education, universal healthcare, healthy foods available everywhere, clean energy, clean, safe transport, quality clothing, communication, including free and open internet, so people can read and learn, telephone, and by gum, yes! unions. Medical marijuana, complete and whole, including THC, possibly cannabinoids without it, for children, not sure on the health impacts of that one. McMansion, television, cheap designer clothing that exploits the misery of workers without protection, television (of people want to watch inanity, there's internet, and they can pay for it, and a broadcast or streaming tax, too, to fund those of us who choose educational programming. "Programming." Apropos, no?), petrol transport, for-profit banking, mortgaging, etcetera should be truly free market, zero subsidies. I'll include processed garbage, GMOs, most sugars and artificial sweeteners, caf CAFO products, anything industry farmed (I've heard "pharmed," and it's fitting) garbage. Stuff that is inhumanely produced, too, like fois gras. Hard liquor, possibly, mass-produced "beer," possibly garbage "wine," (Mondoavi is utter rubbish, along with MD, Thunderbird, Boone's Farm, it just costs more). Synthesized opiates, unless mmj or natural opiates are not working, or contraindicated. These are just a few examples. In general, I think people should be allowed a moderate amount of real beer, decent wine. No harm, definite benefits. I'm sure we won't ask agree on everything, but the basics should be definite. But hey, I'm just a person.

"Buddha learned from two teachers But he found the way by himself" I may be completely off point, but is this the point? You can teach me, but the understanding is up to me, whether or not I understand is up to me, fate, or something else?

Soros and Russia. Fascists in their own ways. I'm having none of either's excuses and lies. Otoh, Soros is a paradox. Or maybe koan. I'm entertaining the idea, perhaps he's the ultimate Taoist. I do not know enough about Taoism to assess the idea, at this point, so I'm not entertaining it much beyond this point.

Nah. That's a pretty weak justification. Worry about your life, not others'. If who someone loves or how they dress or undress is a problem for you, it is your problem. You can still let people know that dress/behavior is unwelcome in your home, but how would you like it if I said you have to wear shiner plastic, ball gags and fishhook piercings? Look away, if it bothers you that much. I once knew am older lady who dyed her hair. I wanted to warn her, but it wasn't my place. She died of brain cancer. I know women who think I'm stupid, for spending more to eat less, and let me know it. They spend more for garbage food, and chemicals for their hair, faces, bodies to "look good." When they lecture me, I just lol, and tell them I don't dictate how they spend their money, nor do they get to dictate how I spend mine. Makes them angry, but they're free to go away and leave me alone, any time. It's not like I seek company, anymore.

If there was a historical Jesus, it was probably more political than doing good to others. Society always imprisons and/or kills thinkers light years ahead of their contemporaries, then honors them. Okay, maybe not always, but plenty.

This is a comment I read, on a news post yesterday: Maybe those who want to put CHRIST back in Christmas should consider putting CHRIST back in Christian. Ramen.

I took it as subtle humor. Maybe was meant as such, maybe was meant seriously. Who knows? I wouldn't let it bother me much, either way. That's just me. I see a lot of self-professed Christians around, who would probably crucify Christ, if they had the chance. Or to put it in their own terms, they drive the nails, with ugly talk and behavior, doing exactly opposite or ignoring what Jesus purportedly said.

Heh. I'm very mixed lineage. So is someone else I know. He wanted to go there to protest. I said, "you can't even not throw cigarettes on the ground and trash out the window. First, stop defiling my mother, yourself. Then worry about protecting her from others." It made him mad. Whoop ti do. This is the general mindset of a lot of people. Not the specifics, necessarily, but the basics.

P.S. The Satanic Verses by Rushdie is one of the best, most eye-opening books I ever read. My family won't touch it, and aren't Muslims, have a typical Murican attitude towards Muslims. But I rather like most Muslims I've known. Someone once said, "Religion makes a good man good, and a bad man bad." Pretty much.

All holy writ seems to have its good and not not good parts. It's like friends, you don't have to agree with our like everything about them. If it gets so that one finds more stress than peace with the text or person, than peace, perhaps it's time to let them go. All holy books are written by man. That should say it all. We mess up, project our own ideology. Rumi, Gibran, are pretty nice to read. Others wouldn't touch them and call them satanic or demonic. Here's a thing: how would one know, without reading? How would one recognize conditioning, during reading, that makes for agreement or repugnance? I'm glad I've some post-secondary education. I had to read things that I was taught were wing, bad, satanic, don't question, it's satanic. And I was forced to research and argue positions I didn't hold. That is what got me started down the path that changed a lot of ugliness and hatred. No, I didn't immediately turn into Bodhisattva. I'm still not that. It's just that things came and went. The abiding stayed, the other stuff was just footsteps along a long and winding path, with apologies to the Beatles.

P.S. Jesus was a liberal, if not an outright communist. No property, shared everything, healed everyone.

Hillary Clinton did offer zero change. We don't have a "left" any more. We have far right and fascists. Obama and Hillary are far right. *That's why nothing changes, except for the worst.* Look at djt stacking his cabinet with the same wealthy Wall Street elites he railed against hrc, regarding her paid speeches. Do you seriously think, for one instant, that he and his wealthy cabal have your interest at heart? Logic. Show me logic. That is why never Trumpers voted hrc and never Clintoners voted djt and the ONE honest man who should have been the Democratic candidate was not. And Warren sold him out. She will NOT get my vote in 2020. And before you start with all that socialist FUD, consider your fire departments, police departments, public defenders, public prosecutors, crumbling infrastructure, fracked up, leaded up water, social security, post offices, DMV offices, judges, jails *rolls eyes*, county administrators, president, senators, congressmen, schools, VA clinics, public hospitals, libraries, beach and mountain parks, air traffic controllers, and everything else the right underfund. I could list more, but I think you get the point. Think critically. I have not read one iota of praise for djt that has any basis in reality, let alone logic. But for all the Christians whining about hrc being so bad, it's funny you believe the orange führer, "I alone can fix it." 2nd Corinthians 11:14 Matthew 7:21-23 25:35-46 Put your money where your mouths are. Take care of your neighbors. Oh, and I do not remember Jesus saying one harsh word about prostitutes, people of color, Jews (Jesus was a Jew. And a refugee, too!), or the lgbtq, or women, or women who were pregnant outside marriage. He did speak harsh words about divorcing for *any* reason, other than adultery, even though it was permitted in Mose's law, but what did he say, about it? And he told the story of the good Samaritan. That would be Philistine. Now known as Palestine. And we all know how *that* has been going, for 5000 years, or more. Then there is Ismael, Half Jew, half Egyptian. The father of Islam. The fruit of Abraham's loins, by his wife's maid, of whom his wife got jealous, after that, and moaned and griped, forcing the maid and a *child* into the desert. And no, we do not know he was mocking Isaac, and even if he was, so what? They were children. And it was Sarai's idea, then she was mean to Hagar, and why? Surely no pregnancy hormones happening, when Sarai or Hagar was pregnant. No, Sarai was jealous, because her slave *had* to sleep with and get pregnant by, and bear Abram's first son. I know what the Bible says, but that was before the Bible. I just looked it up, and the Jewish word "is ambiguous." And even so, he was blessed by yhwh/jhvh. And since it came to mind, the the adamah, means first race, iirc, and was not even the first race on the planet. The "first man" was once one, until he complained, because he could not copulate, like the animals (hint: we are animals too). And guess what else?! The chemicals in "food," water, cause a lot more of babies to be born with male and female genitalia. So all that said, Jew, Christian, pagan, atheist, why do you want to hate anyone? Either God created all, or created none. But especially, why would you hate or judge someone for being born the way they are? Did *you* get to choose being born, alive? The color of your skin? Your parents? The religion in which you were indoctrinated, from birth? Whether or not you had a gay gene (science suggests most are born bi, but develop a preference, and yes, it turns out there is a gay gene, and no, it's not unnatural, live on a farm for a week. Was it Pershing who went to the Arctic, and found what animals do to each other too offensive, to publish? I am not saying rape is okay, but in comparison, a little same-sex sex isn't so bad. Especially since we are not bronze age tribesmen trying to populate a nation, eating or drinking funky things that make bushes live while staying green and taking to deities. Yes, some of us do eat and drink funky things and talk to deities, and I am not judging that, I don't eat as well as I want, and have my own unhealthy habits, but constraints. My point is, we are overpopulated, and there is no harm in spilling seed on the ground and same-sex sex. Context and culture of the time. I know white male supremacists and others think it's still okay to own and subject other people, beat, rape, rob them, based on gender, skin color, creed, but in general, society frowns upon it. And sacrificing or even look like sacrificing children? Ask the woman that drowned her kids in the bathtub to save them what society thought about it. In conclusion, Matthew 23. Put Christ back into "Christian." Pull the beam from your own eyes, before trying to see the mote from your neighbors' eyes. Clean your own houses, and leave your neighbors to worry about their own houses. All the Bible stuff was just for Christians. Jewish people may want to consider the things in the Tanakh. I am sorry if I spelled that wrong. Thank you, if you read the whole wall of text. tl;dr: Stop being ugly. It is not your place to judge these things. If people spent a tenth of their time minding their own business, as they do the business of others, said people would be too busy minding said business, to mind everyone else's. There is a difference between using judgement and judging. Yes, I include myself.

No, it isn't. No apologies needed. The error is mine, dust, so please accept my apology, instead. I'll try to be more careful, going forward.

Yes, yes, and yes. Thank you all. It seems people even think Christ means "personal genie." I know a lot of Christians who never give one thought to any god, christ, not being so very base, until they get into trouble. Even then, it seems to be "gimme," (give me, for those not used to American English slang), not "how did my thinking/behavior/action/lack of these contribute, what can I do differently, and what can I do to clear up the mess I just made?" Then, sometimes even before the most of the mess is cleaned, it's right back to the same recklessness that caused the mess. Kids, I understand. Maybe even up until 25-30, since research suggests brains aren't fully developed before then (I think longer than that, if they do a lot of drinking, doping, poor nutrition, definitely a lot of lead and other contamination in water). No, I do not mean kids who experiment, a little of this, a little of that. I mean the kids that end up addicts, in their teens. Smh.

Is that title in any way congruous to any post I've made? It was jest. ;-)

Perhaps they wouldn't say anything.

I have noticed that a good many people, here and in real life, are very insular, can not or will not think outside their own paradigms of thought. I have also noticed a good many people who have all sorts of obstacles to thinking outside a given paradigm, and manage to find ways to do it. Are we all just really that complacent and judgemental? Do we really just not care about it? I read once that British MP's visited the USA, not so very long ago, and wept openly, at working conditions in some US industry. Dickinsonian conditions exist now, more than any period I have been alive to have ever seen before. And people think privilege and luck is bootstrapping. Not everyone is privileged or lucky.