s1va

Observing similarities is one thing, but to claim other belief systems are part of one's own tradition is different. Thanks for the discussion and answering my question. I think it's time for me to take a break from this thread!

Read the 10 primary upanishads The question sounds like a simple request and the reply patronizing!

Yes I do. Not just me, most Buddhists do to. What about Taoism and Taoists? That also Advaita tradition?

Well, the Masters of the KS tradition did not think so. There is a reason it is classified as Monism. When statements like that are made, it can only be classified as opinion. I was just reading what Buddha said on philosophical assertions and refutations. It is hard to make arguments against assertions based on personal beliefs. Do you consider Buddhism also as Advaita tradition?

Ok .

Why not head North? Just curious!

I will try. It is not static, fixed or rigid at any given time, such as concepts like jiva and shiva are one and same, or jiva and shiva are independent and have self existence, etc. etc. It's spanda, vibration, pulsation, tremor, which is dynamic and cannot be tied to any one single static position, concept or a thing. If this is not different from Advaita view of non-dual as the highest, then I don't know how further to explain. It is all of those concepts and not any of them at the same time.

So, Advaita accepts duality also? It accepts both bheda/dwaita views and abheda/advaita views like KS? In this case, don't you think a name change is warranted from 'Advaita' to something that is more inclusive of dual also? Once again we back to 'appearances', which are not real. We can mince words all day. These are not clearly the same views. Once again no one is stating the AV views are wrong. Also any quote from any authentic Advaitic text that can substantiate the statement that Advaita encomposses dual in the same way Paramadvaita does as I quoted from KS?

I guess the post was edited before I replied. Anyway, I will try to address the parts I missed in the last post. "How does Jiva become Shiva?" Several valid paths are described in the system. Ultimately in KS, no single method is considered as 'The solution' that will work for all Jivas. Therefore, KS does not promote any one single method to all beings and also does not refute any methods. Please read my other post in entirety before you decide someone disagrees with my views. In KS the non-dual is not rejected, it is Paramadvaita that and encompasses non-dual and the dual also. The universe as a reflection are valid and in no way contradictory to what I stated. What I stated are fundamental concepts of KS. I have made some quote already. I can quote more from Abhinavagupta's own words and also from Malinivijayottara tantra etc. when I find some time. I don't have the text or sanskrit verses in front of me right now.

That is your interpretation. I did not say they are completely independent or self existent. As per Advaita, they have to be one, or completely separate and self existent as per your deduction above. Further the advaita non-dual does not encompass the dual as explained in the quote below. The Abhnivagupta's non-dual does, this is what I tried to explain in the other thread.

Sorry, this is not true and shows clear misunderstanding of the KS system. The Paramadvaita of Abhinavagutpa as described in KS, accepts bheda-abheda, both duality and non-duality as equally valid, both the transcendent and the immanent are part of the 'Heart' as I stated on the previous post. It may sound paradoxical, but it is clearly different from Advaita. In the end, Jiva becomes like Shiva. The Jiva and Shiva are not one and same at all times in KS.

The difference is right there in the highlighted sentence. In AV, it is just an appearance when it comes to the existence of other beings. Such appearance is just maya and not real. The transcendental reality of the 'I' is the only truth. Whereas Abhinavagupta accepts both the transcendent and the immanent (bheda-abheda) as reality. If other sentient beings are just an appearance similar to a dream, what is the need for a jnani to help others? I doubt if we can find an answer to this question in AV. If there is no answer to this question, then there is no need for compassion, or for that matter morals or ethical values.

I am reading (actually listening) to the Tantra Illuminated by Christopher Wallis. Came across the following and wanted to share. This part beautifully describes the bheda-abheda views of Kashmir Shaivism and what non-duality really meant to Abhinavagupta. (Following quote is from the book mentioned above. It is an audio book and I have typed the following. Apologize for any mistakes or errors in transcribing.) Paramādvaita/Paramādvayavada - Abhinavagupta's Supreme Non-duality - All inclusive Heart of Reality "Some see reality as inherently dualistic. In other words that the distinction is ultimately real, this is called the 'bheda' or 'dwaita' view. They do good works and worship a separate almighty God, that they hope will bless them with his grace. Others see distinctions that are subsumed within a greater unity with distinction and unity having equal weight in experience. This is called the 'bheda-abheda' view. They cultivate spiritual knowledge and relish beautiful things as a vibration of consciousness. Still others see completely non-dualistically. That is seeing difference as unreal or only very superficially real with unity absolutely dominant in experience. This is the 'abheda' or advaita view. They reject all practices subtle and gross and dwell in the immediate intuitive insight of the transcendent 'I ' nature. So, where does the +1 come in this model of things? Well, this is the key to understanding the ultimate consumption of the tantric philosophy. You see the non-dual view just mentioned excludes the dualistic view. Seeing it as simply wrong. This is not an all inclusive non-duality and therefore it lends itself to transcendentalism and spiritual bypassing a major pitfall on the path. Therefore Abhinavagupta presented a view he called Paramādvaya, the supreme non-duality or the higher non-duality, which we already mentioned couple of times. This view includes both duality and non-duality as valid experiences and levels of perception. Non-duality transcends duality, but the supreme non-duality transcends the transcendent. So, how do we understand this seeming paradox? Because as again the supremely non-dual nameless forth is simultaneously transcendent and immanent. It englobes includes emanates as all these different views. It is the all inclusive heart of reality, the dynamic power of consciousness which articulates every possibility becomes everything and yet is no-thing. We have stressed over and over again this higher tantric view that the divine is simultaneously transcendent and immanent precisely because the masters of the tradition tell us that understanding this teaching is right at the heart of the whole tantric project." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are more really interesting illustrations that just follows the above. When I find time, I will type some more of what I found really interesting.

I think the obstruction that causes that tightness and pressure may be there all the time. As you start being in the now, your awareness increases and you are able to notice it. Therefore the mindfulness is most likely not the cause of this problem, but it's just bringing it to your awareness or into the surface. This is all good!

1) In my personal view, there is subjective reality to separate sentient beings. 2) It is not only possible to help, I feel it is not possible for anyone to live alone without the interdependent help of other sentient beings and taking help from other factors of the universe. Such as, I benefit from the Sun's light everyday, breathe the oxygen that is transformed by the trees and plants, etc. Every time I eat a meal, some animal or plant has given it's life to become that meal on my plate. I am not fanatical about this view. But I feel it is important to be consciously aware that other beings are contributing to my survival all the time, without asking me anything back in return. To have gratitude and be able to give back is also important in my personal view. Others don't have to necessarily agree with my views. I respect if someone else holds a different view and sees it all as movie/dream.

Personally this makes a huge difference for me and also a very important factor plus the reason to differentiate. If everything is seen as a dream, if the waking state is the same as the dream state, just a projection, a person that awakens from this dream has no need to help others, since there are no others! When I wake up from a horrible dream, I rarely ever (never) go back into the dream to help other dream beings (my mind's creation) suffering in the dream, because there is no need. There is no compassion in viewing the waking state as same to this.

Welcome taichiman! I wouldn't mind staying by the ocean at all. Very nice!

Welcome Aleks! Congrats on kicking the smoking and drinking habits. Glad to hear it feels good. Don't be too hard on yourself, that never helps. There are members who are knowledgeable in Neidan and Qigong. Good luck in finding the answers you are looking for.

Supposing a frog lived it's entire life in a well. It says all reality everywhere is one and the same. It can be felt right here right now in this well. And therefore this reality is the only truth and everything is aspects of this. There is another frog that has gone outside the well and seen different things, like a beach, river, forests, etc. Having seen (and knowing) there are other things, this frog sometimes talks about the beauty of the vast reality and the numerous things that make up the world. The well frog says, how can you say all those things are different? What is the point in talking about all this? Are they not part of one reality that is present and felt right here and right now, in this moment in the well? Therefore it is all the same. It is futile to talk about all these other things. (Is it?). Question whether seperate experiences have any meaningful reality, etc. etc. (For the well frog they don't. But the other frog thinks it's meaningful to hang out at the beach) The frog that has seen other things feels otherwise about this futility, meaningless, etc. It feels that it is also important to see and acknowledge the different parts that make up the picture.

I would agree with you part of the way, in the sense, it can be harmful for a person who is depressed to engage in activities that takes the person further inwards such as meditation practices. This is why I said in one of my early posts, self inquiry is not helpful in such cases and can amplify the problem. When they are severely depressed, as in the examples you gave, outward activities that lead to action are more important than activities that turn the person inwards. But trying to be mindful and to stay present is a whole different thing. In fact I see that as the true solution. It can be practiced while engaged in activities. There can be no depression when someone is fully present.

I recalled Aurobindo's writings about the obstacles and difficulties that may arise in sadhana and how to face them (from the book, The Practical Guide to Internal Yoga by Sri Aurobindo). His writings are beautiful and they convey the message with clarity. This may be long, but worthwhile reading, in my opinion. Actually, someone interested should checkout the entire book.

This part is the key in my opinion. First to understand it is a phase. Everything passes away sooner or later. But the depth of some situations make us think it may never end or go away, like it is a constant experience. Also, the acceptance and to come to terms with the fact the situation may persist for a while is very important. Somethings do keep coming back. But with complete acceptance, the grip such phases have over us loosens over time, until a point where it may not matter at all when we go through such phases. I went through a rough phase myself recently. With some recurring pain and discomfort happening in episodes. The knowing it is just a phase that happens in episodes and complete acceptance were the key things that helped me. Moment to moment awareness and just watching the discomfort also helped. In simply observing threse episodes without associating them with any mind stories, sometimes I went from pain and intense discomfort to blissful samadhi states. The bottomline, it's not going to be rosy all the time for anyone. The sooner we completely accept this, it might enable us to take steps or actions that opens up possibilities and potentially help us.

Steering off the thread was not the only concern. Sometimes other things like the direction, tone, disagreements, etc. do add up as in this case. Not just disagreements, but incessant off-topic postings defending those disagreements with multiple others. There are some 10 or 11 posts made by CityHermit! on that topic, in a short timeframe, not one addressing the topic or answering the questions by OP, all the while advising and telling others what to do.

Staff/Moderator Notice CityHermit! - You have derailed this thread already with your numerous opinionated posts on what should and should not be discussed by other forum members. You are also engaging in endless arguments with other members and staff. This is a warning for you to stay away from this thread for the next 24 hours and not post in this thread again during that time period. Edit: For anyone interested in discussing in-person face to face interactions vs. online social media/forum interactions, please create a separate topic in the appropriate section of the forum.

I decide where to keep my focus and what good comes of it. If you want to stop the conversation, all you have to do is stop replying back to my posts quoting me. May be you are finding that a little hard to do. Unlike you, some of us spend a lot of time here in forums and have some real and great friends here. Also I happen to be one of the moderators for the forum and it is also part of my job to review posts here.