s1va

This makes sense. Agreed, shielding may be essential to some, and some of us may be doing it in one way or other. But, that does not mean, everyone needs shielding and those who do not advocate it are naieve, as discussed earlier. For those who have transcended fear or realized the Dao, or in Non-dual state like Dwai describes, there is simply no need for shielding. Here the fear is not used in the sense of frightenening. Generally, someone who has overcome all fear and is full of compassion may see no need to shield, but only love towards all beings.

Interesting. Is that what the circle is about? Representation of emptiness?

Sorry, it was not my intention to make anyone wait I thought may be no one was "really" interested, and typing responses slowly when I could. Got side tracked with some other discussions today. It is also a bit challenging to explain this. But, I will type and post the response as soon as I can. Hopefully tomorrow. No, this is not about illusions. This is about the intensity of emotions. It is stated, any emotion that is pure (blemishless) with 100% intensity, can lead to liberation. Next question will be, how can hatred be pure or blemishless. It is possible. In order to understand this, it will also be helpful, if one understands, what exactly constitutes a merit (puNya) and sin (pApa) in Sanatana Dharma.

This post above was in response to a simple question about cross tradition. Then multiple other posts followed describing the killing and death of some 12 people with some gas by some crazy group. In my view, cross tradition does not mean, any crazy group out there or killers with some teaching. There are all types of outfits that call themselves as spiritual traditions. Those that do comparison must use their judgement in picking the right thing to compare. Here, sadly it looks to me like some group that was involved in the crazy killing and deaths was hand picked for comparison. These deaths or this group, none of this is relevant in anyway to this topic. This does bring up the question, was such comparison done on good faith for the sake of the discussion here, or to promote fear against certain practices? Any one that engaged on the discussion about this crazy group and their killings, care to respond?

I mentioned that I agree with you on the energy part, that energy is not just enough. It was about my belief (phone typo - corrected :)) and not my practice or what I was working towards. Yes, I am working towards various things. But, this thread is not about me and may not be the right place to elaborate on things I am working on. Perhaps, some other place.

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I totally agree with you that thinking mind is important. Unlike some, I don't reject the mind as illusion, non existent or useless. If someone asks me to stop using my thinking mind, I won't walk, but will run away from that place. Mind is a valuable tool. It's only the association or letting go of the doership, that I was referring to as steering. If the body and and mind are identified as 'I' and the only 'I', that seems to cause some issues. I agree with you on the energy part also, just energy is not enough. My post does not say or imply energy is enough anywhere. Not sure how you got that impression. Anyway, thanks for the reply, enjoyed reading your post .

Powerful words __/\__. Some great masters from past also taught to show the other cheek, even in the external world. Sadly, many of us are not there yet, to claim we have conquered fear completely. Some of us are not ready to even hear such things or entertain such ideas, let alone implement them. So, this can possibly sound naieve or dangerous to some of us.

Gazed. What next? I am a little slow . If you are going to teach me, you need to do better than that.

And, your point is? I am not denying there are people seeking solution for spiritual sickness. What does it have to do with trust and letting go, ( that Jeff mentioned), which are the cornerstone of many religions including Daoism? Sorry, I don't understand this outburst.

Trust and common sense can coexist. (Trust is just inner faith.)

Perhaps some of these people are on a rail car that does not need steering wheel For a long time, I thought I was the one driving, steering, speeding, etc. But, when I let go and relaxed, I realized my steering wheel is just my mind's toy. I am just part of this rail car, which is going on a track. Even more amazing is the glimpses of the revelation, I am not lifetimes away from destination. This rail car, where I am right now, is the destination. It was the destination always.

Very well said. Thank you.

How does one connect to the formless? Is it possible that the formless is also a creation of mind?

Yes, there are numerous yogas. The one I mentioned earlier that states liberation is possible using pure hatred is called Sambhrama yoga. It's mentioned in scriptures that it is a very special form of yoga. The logic behind how it works is similar for all emotions. Since I brought it up, I will expand a little and explain what I know about it in the next post.

Yes. Any insight on how it compares to the merge and guru yoga discussed on this thread?

Thanks for sharing your insight and experience on connecting with deities in the last few posts. It is valuable and there is much to learn for me. I can relate to most of what you stated. Yes, open practice of deity mantras can be helpful. However, I wouldn't discount other practices that you described as secret mantra or sexual yoga. Some of these are core part of tantric practices. Imo, the intention of secrecy was never to suppress information from anyone, make things difficult or close doors from aspirants. There could be valid reasons why some of them needed to be guarded carefully, sometimes for the safety of the seekers also. What is considered secret is also very relative. What is plain and clear to some, could seem like secret to many others. For instance, you are able to invoke deities and feel/see them with their mantras. Some one else trying the same exact practice may not see or feel the deities or anything. To this person, it might seem like, there is more to it than what meets the eye -- or there is some secret ingredient to this practice to actually see/feel the deity. When such a person comes questioning, you may be able to help point out and show, all it needs is devotion and a open heart. Help that person experience the same (eventually), this is what teachers do, they help. There are also the initiation and various type of transmissions that can result in powerful transformation. Anyway, if practiced with a open heart, under the guidance of some one who truly knows, the results can be amazing. This is perhaps why Tantra is considered direct as opposed to other methods.

How does one merge with vajra body/mind? Care to expand, what it means and how is it practiced?

I totally agree with this. Such conclusion comes from deep insight. Not just the outward conditions in our lives, there can be subconscious tendencies and stored or repressed emotions, that may not be visible right away. But, they could be there under the surface and need to be released. This is in a way related to what I was mentioning about emotions like hatred. But, I feel that is different in the sense, it explains the transformations that can result from channeling emotions.

The Sanaka, Sananda, Sanatana and Sanatkumara are brothers and Rishis from Vedas and Upanishads. In fact, they were supposed to be the first 4 enlightened masters (that are not deities) in Hindu cosmology. Their teachings can be found all over the scriptures. They are together called Sanakadhi Rishis -- all four of them. The following quote is directly attributed to Sanakadhi Rishis in the scriptures. This talks about the hatred, love and liberation that I mentioned earlier. The above quote has deep implications. In fact, this concept that liberation can be attained through any emotion like hatred, gave birth in a way to both the 2 major Indian epics, Ramayana and Mahabharata. It also shows the depth of the understanding of human emotions by Rishis, and using them as vehicle for liberation. I will explain what I understood behind this logic and also some examples, in the next posts. This is also closely associated with the concepts of ishta devata or deity and relating to the divine in various ways or 'bhavas'.

You earlier talked about the, "yoga and the vastness of "Hinduism"" and it's various schools, thoughts, etc. I just described a practice which is mentioned on some (core) Hindu scriptures, which I believe has sound logic. You are welcome to judge it. I heard a Swami state that It is insights such as this, pure hatred can also lead one to liberation, and to truly understand and explain the process of using emotions as a vehicle to attain liberation, as something that sets Hindu scriptures apart from others.

I am not taking about wrestling or learning from inner hatred, and applying the lessons, etc. Agreed, those things may be helpful to some extent. But, using hatred for liberation, without any analysis. It may not be the path for everyone, but there is logic it can work. I believe this. If pure love can liberate, then why not pure hatred? Also, I don't agree with 'anything can be the path' like Steve states. I am specifically discussing pure hatred as the method of yoga for liberation. I don't know how drugs can be effective path for anyone's liberation.

Merge with the Vajra body/mind?

I could (for fun :)) if it's going to bring up some interesting discussion. ------------------------ Since we are on this topic, to make it interesting, let me ask my own 'can you deny' question that is relevant to yoga. This is to everyone: Can you deny this? In yoga, the practice of hatred can be faster or at least as equally efficient to the practice of love, devotion, etc. for liberation. It's not a trick question. I am talking about hatred.

Snakes in dream is generally considered as Kundalini energy. We need to take into consideration other factors. https://theawakenedstate.net/i-recently-had-a-dream-i-was-lost-in-a-dark-tomb/