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The general inter-relationship between chakras and the unified field that is discussed here are not the same thing - imo. The relationship may have always existed, everything is relative to everything else, etc. But, the unified field seems to be the result of a profound transformation that happens after the opening of chakras 1-7. A transformation that seems to result in the realization of light. It's not some abstract concept that was always there, but a phenomenal transformation and realization to be experienced by each and everyone. Even every chakra opening is a minor transformation (a shift) and results in some type of minor realization. Just by knowing the concepts of a chakra opening or by thinking it is already open, it doesn't open, and the necessary transformation for that chakra does not occur due to a concept or knowledge. Similarly, this is a transformational event to be experienced or realized. How important is it? Each person can decide for themselves after experiencing. Only after experiencing a person can honestly state how important it is to them. Heart chakra opening was a big deal for me and an important factor and a milestone. For some it may not be such an important thing. Each one always come to know with their own personal experience and, certainly not by knowing the concepts, I think you would agree. If one has gone through this actual transformation, they will know for themselves how important it is (also, whether it is important)!

It's spelt Soundarya Lahari in some places. Soundarya Lahiri in many places in south India, which is the spelling I used like the link below. Interesting to note, it sounds like your family members. I just guessed why. https://www.amazon.com/Soundarya-Lahiri-Anooradha-Sriram/dp/B000QR33CE In a way, they are your family members (and mine). Parvati and Shiva are supposed to be the mother and father for the entire world as Kalidasa states: jagatah pitarau vande pArvatIparameshvarau.

I don't recall reading that text. I will check it out sometime. Shankara has done numerous works on diverse topics, some of them devotional, some yogic and some even dealing with Tantra and Kundaluni yoga as the one described below. I have read some of the beautiful hymns from Soundarya Lahiri, which are attributed to Shankara. It's not only just devotional hymns that describe the beauty and glories of Goddess Parvati, but also a detailed Tantric and Kundalini text. The advaitic theme can be seen on all Shankara's work including this. The Ananda Lahiri, that precedes Soundarya Lahiri is also a beautiful text to be cherished.

Vyasa is the author of the 18 Maha Puranas that are part of Hindu scriptures. It is said, that Purāṇas are called Purāṇa because they make the Veda “Pūrṇa” (complete). With elaborate illustrations and stories that are easy to understand for anyone, be it a pundit or a layman, Puranas explain how the philosophy of Dharma (virtuous living) laid out on Vedas are to be applied in daily life. If we were to compare the Vedas and Upanishads to the constitution that describes fundamental laws, then Puranas are the text that deal with the practical application of the laws and the voluminous 'case laws', that are used to interpret the constitution and take precedence from previous rulings, examples, etc. Like how the interpretation of laws are derived from case law and previous precedents in applying laws, one can turn to Puranas, for the interpretation and application of Dharma. One of the reason they are so voluminous is because, they attempt to address every possible situation that may arise in human life and provide multiple precedents of how dharma was applied by others under such circumstances and what were the outcome. Also to address seeming conflict in dharma (dharma samkat) , when both or all options seem to be opposed to dharma. There was one Swami who described this beautifully. He said Vyasa was smart. He knew that philosophy from Vedas and Upanishads are not appealing to common man. To take it to the ordinary man and ensure that it sticks in their mind, like everything else, this needed great presentation style and marketing. If there is a storyline, some spice and some masala, that normally gets the attention. Why not use this same logic in spirituality to convey the philosophies? If there is a struggling but brave hero, a beautiful heroine, a powerful villain and a storyline with twists, that certainly should get the job done. The Puranas do this exactly in elaborate ways to achieve the result mentioned above. They are largely successful to this day. It does not mean all of the illustrations from Puranas are just stories or myth. I feel most of these things happened at different point in time, in may be different dimensions. Like how, some exaggeration and some spice is added to the real life stories to make them screen worthy, turn and them into movies these days. The same logic in puranas. We can even notice this from some of the same stories that are narrated with minor variations depending on the context and which Puranas they appear. These Puranas are comprehensive to say the least. For example, the popular Bhagavat Purana that talks about the glories of Krishna, has approximately 20,000 verses. The largest among the major 18 Puranas happens to be the Skanda Purana with about 60,000+ verses. If someone wants to study or research any of these major Puranas in depth, they can spend a lifetime easily over this task. Not for repetitive study, but to study one Maha Purana once in-depth, verse by verse and understand. Who has the time to study all these? One need not study all Purnas to understand Dharma. Different people have different tendencies, likes and dislikes. Some people tend to be sattvic (pure) in nature, some others rajasic (active) and some tamasic (slow, lethargic). These 18 major puranas are also classified into these 3 gunas, 6 each. Each person can chose the one that is aligned with their tendencies and about the deity they like. What is the core message from these Puranas. They are supposed to explain and elaborate on the Vedas and Upanishads. Therefore the essence of the Puranas must also be the essence of the core scriptures or Vedas. If someone were to question Vyasa, we don't have time to read these elaborate Puranas, can you please summarize them in 2 pages for us? Even better, how about a summary in 2 sentences?

Maybe there is some misunderstanding. I don't think the chakras disappear or are gone forever. They collapse into a single unified field, does not mean they are gone. I mentioned that I don't feel the chakras the same way as I did before. This does not mean that they don't exist at all in any form. As Jonesboy pointed out, if we look at them as mapping, they just get transformed into one unified field or undergo some great transformation. Yes, it may still be possible to sense or feel the chakras.

I am also enjoying the discussion and learning. Thanks to everyone.

Agreed on chanting. I don't see any harm in chanting mantras like Gayathri without initiation. True initiation is also not just the ceremony as it is done mostly these days. However, it is good to learn to chant with proper pronunciation, just to get the proper results from the mantra. Mantras work by the sound or vibration that they produce in the energy body. There are certain mantras that should not be chanted without initiation, because the results can be powerful. Also, some mantras should just be avoided at certain times and by certain people, due to physiological reasons (for example: It's not conducive for women to chant certain mantras during pregnancy). You mentioned about chakras and not undertaking the meditation on bija mantras without initiation on another post. Yes, one should be careful. But, I think for many, it is generally okay to undertake some of these practices, with certain precautions. I will add some more on chakras and chanting, later when I find some time. Some people paint a negative picture in general about the crown opening -- they talk about the horrors of premature crown opening. While, caution is certainly needed, sometimes these warnings go too far out, in my opinion.

I agree that it sounds a bit too far out and implausible. Yes, I have also not encountered any proposals that openly discuss such unification theories in any of the major texts that deal on the subject of chakras. I would agree with almost everything you have stated, and understand why it sounds controversial. However, I have personally experienced this and can state with confidence that after the crown opening, the 7 chakras collapse into a unified field, as Jonesboy has described on his post. After my crown opening, I went through this powerful experience where all the chakras, seem to collapse into a single field. I don't feel the chakras like how I used to feel them anymore, after the experience of going light. This is consistent with the experience of several others. May be, there are other ways to explain this. I have read in some kriya yoga texts, that they talk about the 6 chakras below (1-6) rising up and becoming one with the crown. They point out this happens only with the divine grace from a Guru or a divine being. There are very little details presented about this (Ajna chakra along with 5 other chakras raising and merging with crown) on the texts I read. I can look up to see which books they are. This is the closest I came to finding in books, about this process.

If 'Everything is Brahman', then one can say, yoga is part of everything, therefore Yoga is also Brahman. It's fine up until this point. But, if we were to say, 'Yoga is Brahman', that is a huge leap, so is everything else, we all know that, so there is nothing special about yoga, right? why get hung up on a word? This is the point I was trying to make all along. They are all means, some of them great means. But, if someone were to take such stance with yoga, it is fine with me Everything that is Non-yoga is also Brahman. (kim yoga, kima yoga, in Sadasiva Brahman's words)

Sorry, I can't agree with the part about mantras being prayer unless they are prefixed with om. This is not accurate. In fact, the prefixing of the OM (pranava) to mantra came at the later time, after the Rig vedic time and probably after the (Yajur, Sama and Atharva Vedas also). If you actually see the original Rig vedic verses, the mantras are not prefixed with pranava in most of the places. This is the same with yajur veda and others. What is a mantra by definition? All verses in the 4 Vedas are considered as mantras. To put it in another way, for any sound or word to be accepted as mantra, it should have occured on one of the 4 Vedas. Slokhas are prayers that occur outside the Vedas (Vedas contain Samhitha and Upanishads), such as in Sutras, Ithihasas or Puranas. For instance Vishnu Sahasranama is very potent form of Sloka or prayer. It contains mantras from Vedas, but it is not considered a mantra by itself. For another example, let's look at the Sri Rudram, which is very popular from Yajur Veda. This praises Shiva or (Rudra) with his names and his glories. The entire Sri Rudram is mantra and chanting is said to bring so many benefits. We see the pranava or 'om' added at the start of rudram and in few places these days. In original yajur vedic text, one won't find pranava anywhere. The most famous panchakshara mantra of shiva is made of 5 syllables, hence the name pancha-akshara-mantra. There is no pranava in this mantra. That mantra is Na-ma-si-va-ya (Nama-Sivaya). It is one of the most powerful mantras from the veda that occurs in Sri Rudram. Some people add the 'om' to it these days, that will make it a 6 syllable mantra against it's name of panchakshara. I read that Sri Rudram occurs in the geometric center of the 4 vedas, and this panchakrasha mantra of Shiva occurs on the geometric center of Sri Rudram, therefore this mantra is considered the heart of Vedas. The actual Gayathri mantra, does not only have pranava or 'om part of it, even the vyahruthi (Bur, Bhuva, Svaha) is also not part of the original Gayathri mantra as it occurs in Vedas. It was later added by Maharishi Vishwamitra. The Original Gayathri (Savitr) for moksha, is a 24 akshara mantra, that starts from 'tat.... pracho...t. The original powerful Maha Mrityunjaya mantra, "Trayambakam .... Urvarukam ... tat.', does not contain pranava either. But, the original is considered very potent, and there were reasons, why the pranava and vyahruthi was added later. This may sound surprising. This is a complicated topic. I am sorry, it is not my intention to debate with you. I am also not saying it is wrong to chant Gayathri with the pranava or the vyahruthi (Bur, Bhuva, Svaha). It is best to chant mantras as one was initiated on them. I chant Gayathri with the pranava and Vyahruthi. If you need more information, I can point out some resources or you can do your own research to find what I am stating pranava is accurate. My astrology teacher has written about this extensively on his book.

Yes, Ashtanga yoga and it's techniques can be effective for some. It's still means only. It's not the destination or the actual liberation. One can engage on ashtanga yoga, karma yoga, bhakti yoga, janana yoga or any one of the other 12 yogas described on gita, in pursuit of moksha or in pursuit of worldly things. All of these are means, and not the end. None of this is Brahman. Engaging in any of these sincerely might take one to the destination. But, these are all paths. (Engaging in any of these yogas will still fall under one of the 4 purusharthas stated, like all other human actions. Where is the question of interfering, when all actions fall under any one of the 4? No action can possibly interfere with any purushartha.)

What is a goal in general? Per Vedanta and other scriptures, the human goals or purusharthas are broadly classified into 4 categories. The four fold purusharthas are 1) dharma, 2) artha, 3) kaama & 4) moksha. Any action that any human engages on can be classified into one of these 4 categories. The actual order in which they are followed is artha, kaama, dharma and moksha. 1) Arhta or Necessities - means engaging in the pursuit to gain the necessities that are needed to live a human life, such as food, clothing, shelter, etc. 2) Kaama or Luxuries - engaging in the pursuit of things that are not a necessity to live, but add value to our life, or make the living experience more enjoyable. 3) Dharma or Virtue - engaging in actions in a virtuous ways. 4) Moksha or Liberation - The ultimate goal for all, end of suffering, to come out of the cycle of birth and death. Swami Paramarthananda, who is a disciple of Swami Dayananda Saraswati, explains the purusharthas or human goals beautifully in his talks on the topic Tattva Bodha (by Shankara). In this talks, he says the actual purushartha per the Vedanta is only one, which is Moksha or Liberation. Then, why describe them as 4 and allow the pursuit of other things? He explains this elegantly. We are caught up on samsara, like a child that is caught up with some sickness. When the child is sick, the mother puts the medicinal herbal powder on the tongue. But, due to the medicine's bitter taste, the child just spits it out. The mother knows that the child needs to take the medicine to get better. So, she mixes the herbal powder with honey and then slowly gives it to the child, little at a time. In the same way, the Rishis knew that if they say mokhsa or liberation is the only ultimate goal, then lot of people may not even listen to them. They might ask, what about the next meal? the dinner on the table, such worldly things may be the huge concern on the mind. So, they designed 4 fold human goals. They said, it's okay to engage in the pursuit of necessary things (artha), even allowed the pursuit of things that are luxurious (kaama) to certain extent, as long as such action are done under the guidelines of the Dharma (3rd goal or purushartha). So long as a person acts with the clear understanding that moksha or liberation from all suffering is the ultimate goal. In truth, liberation was the only goal all the time. But, we need to balance it with our living condition and immediate needs. Therefore the concession. Like how the mother added honey, the Rishis made it sound sweet, pursuit of other worldly things are alright, as long as one is clear that moksha is the ultimate goal. Now, where would yoga fall under those 4 categories of human goals? Yoga can be done in the pursuit of bare necessities or to acquire luxuries, it can be done in dharmic or virtuous way and it can be done for moksha (liberation) also. Depending on a person's motive or intent, the action of yoga can fall under any one of those 4 human goals. But, all of these are just goals. Including the actions undertaken for the moksha (liberation) purushartha. The actual state of liberation/moksha, which is the destination, is not the same as any of the tasks undertaken in the pursuit of any one of the 4 human goals. Hence, the path is just the path, and not the destination. ----------------- Download the mp3 talks on Tattva Bodha by Swami Paramarthananda. One of the best discourse, I have ever heard on this topic. The swami has a knack to explain, complex vedantic terms in an easy to understand way for everyone. He has done an excellent job especially on this particular commentary for Tattva Bodha. He explains the purusharthas beautifully in one of the talks. http://hinduonline.co/AudioLibrary/Discources/CommentaryonTattvaBodhaParamarthananda.html

Yes, yoga is generally seen as the path and not as the destination.

Everything is Brahman (Sarvam Brahma Mayam) is well accepted in Hinduism. Everything is yoga, well I haven't heard that, but if someone chooses to see everything as yoga, why not? Sadasiva Brahmendra is a popular saint, advaita master and musician from 18th century southern India. He composed the following carnatic music verses. Listen to the Sarvam Brahmamayam rendered in traditional carnatic music by Priya Sisters

Chanting or meditation on pranava (om) is considered different compared to chanting or meditation on other seed syllables or mantras. There seems to be two set of opinions on this practice. Generally, this is discouraged as you pointed out. We are talking about the contemplation just on the pranava (om) as it is, without prefixing it to other mantras. The prefixing is generally considered not only safe, but claimed to make other mantras safer than if they were used without the pranava prefix. I think the reason for concern with meditation -- on (om) pranava -- is because of the potential resulting action. There are seed syllable or sound associated with each of the chakras. Chanting or meditation on these sounds are described to help with the opening of the associated chakra. The chanting or meditation on pranava is associated with the opening of the crown chakra. Some associate it with the opening of the 3rd eye. Not everyone may be ready to open their crown chakra or even play around with it. Going to the crown directly, when other important chakras such as heart is not open, can produce instabilities. Hence the caution and warnings generally given with the chanting or meditation on the pranava.

The 'One' or the whole (purnA) may have nothing to gain or lose (ever). But, then who is the one that generally gains and losses, is it the whole or the body/mind that identifies as 'I'? As long as this whole or one is obscured by the body/mind identification, there are going to be gains and losses -- for the body and the mind. How can the whole emerge out of the clouds or whatever it is that it's obscuring it? Something has to happen. Something needs to be gained, or lost by the body/mind, so that it can get out of the way, right? Whichever way I see, there is something to be gained or lost (effort to be made in some sense), until one reaches the destination.

As cold suggested above, a doctor appointment may be prudent, considering you have been going through this for 2 months. It's easy to offer suggestions for these things, like exercise, nature walk, eating healthy, etc. You may know many of these things already, but it may be hard to apply them at times. If it really bothers where someone describes purposelessness and finding no reason to live, it is best to do a screening for depression or any other potential illness just in case. I can't honestly suggest things like staying in the present moment, or inquire into the nature of who you are, etc, considering the severity of what you stated. On the contrary, it may be wise not to do undertake anything contemplative or things that take you deeper inside such as any type of seated meditation, or breathing exercises until some of these issues are resolved. Jonesboy mentioned about the overload, that is one possibility. Taking a break from powerful practices, even for a short time frame, may possibly help. I am not an expert on this topic either. These low moods or the swing between the higher and lower can also be caused by various underlying physical factors. Such as low hormone levels, even some vitamins or mineral levels when they are low, can cause lack of energy, motivation, fatigue, etc. Some routine lab tests screen for many of these levels. You have also mentioned pains and handling to live with them. Living a spiritual life is great, but we need to balance it with common sense also. As we all know, modern medicine can be a lifesaver in several instances. At the minimum, some of these tests can rule out physical factors. There are always other options such as Acupuncture or TCM. I am not sure if these other options are available where you live. A medical check-up may be a good place to start. Good Luck. Love & Light!

Sorry to hear you are going thorough some difficult stuff. You mentioned often. Does this happen in episodes that tend to get better later? Have you observed any kind of triggers over time, both, the ones that may possibly contribute to this condition, or the ones that help make things better, to break out of the cycle.

If attachment from which one's identity (the 'I' thought) is derived is released, then what that person called 'I" so far, transforms and is not the same old identification anymore. If what we call 'I' itself goes through a transformation, then it stands to reason that everything associated with that 'I' including what 'existence' stands for or purpose of existence should also transform. If we are exploring the purposes or reasons for existence, then the attachments to the identity such as body/mind are still very much there. How can the 'I' that still has attachments to things including identity, assume or speculate about the purposes or reasons for existence after such a transformation where that same 'I' won't exist anymore? They could mean something entirely new after the transformation, can't they?

I came across a Taoist immortal list recently, which reminded of the chiranjivis. These 7 are considered to be Chiranjivi or Immortal in Hindu traditions -- they will live till the end of the yuga (kali) or this cycle. Even though becoming a Chiranjivi or immortal is not described as a goal anywhere in the Hindu scriptures, these 7 are mentioned to be chiranjivis or immortals. Moksha or liberation is the goal per Hindu scriptures and not becoming a Chiranjivi. If we look at this list, it is diverse with a demon king, a warrior, a brahmin, etc. One thing is certain, each one of these is a great spiritual powerhouse, some of them born with gifted abilities and others that developed through their practice and cultivation. It is interesting to note some concept of immortality existed in almost all ancient traditions. Granted, the immortal does not mean the same in Taoism and the Hindu traditions. Something similar to the Taoist external and internal alchemy can be seen in other Indian traditions that evolved at later times. For instance, we can see a lot of external and internal alchemical practices, in practitioners of the southern siddhar traditions.

I guess this goes back to the Sanskrit word vajra and how it's meaning evolved from the Vedic times. The vajra intially meant diamond or strong like diamond, among other things. There is the story of Dadichi Rishi, from the Vedas and Puranas. How Shiva grants him a boon, so that all his bones become vajra, or have the strength of diamond (become indestructible). Later, ironically this boon costs Dadhichi his life. He gives away his life, so that Indra can use his bones to make his weapon, the Vajrayuda. The Vajra-yuda (diamond weapon) was called thunder weapon since it belonged to Indra, the diety of thunder. Anyway, I think it may be through these stories from Puranas, and association with Indra, the vajra got the thunder meaning generally in ancient India. The shape I believe also in ways goes back to the shape of Indra's weapon.

I am not talking about all likes and dislikes. Yes, some of them change or go away. For instance, I did not like and couldn't go near certain vegetables while growing up. I love some of these same vegetables now. Many of the likes and dislikes seem to arise from attachments and desires, but some of them seem to be ingrained very deep inside, as part of the core personality. May be these are part of the subconscious/unconscious or they reside even deeper as latent impressions or tendencies. These likes and dislikes seem to shape almost all actions (or inaction) a normal person engages on, also shaping the results and the path ahead. Next thing I expect to hear, 'Like and dislike will always be there. But, they don't affect a realized or enlightened person who does not identify with body/mind. Just watch the likes and dislikes, witness, be present, mindful, we don't need to act on them, etc.' I get all of that. Why should it matter then? Perhaps it matters or it doesn't. But, the choices a person makes and the actions he/she engages, are in many ways driven by the likes and dislikes. Choices and actions have influence not only on us but everything and everyone around us. Some decide to sit in a cave after enlightenment and be in bliss forever, some others come down from the mountain or hermitage to serve and teach others. Not that one is right and the other is wrong, such decisions are ultimately made on likes and dislikes or inner tendencies. Those that come out and teach also have their own methods, what they think works best for others, based on their likes/dislikes or what worked best for them! Someone who has overcome desires and attachments still seems to have deeply ingrained innate tendencies like, likes and dislike towards certain things they can't overcome. Gods and immortals also seem to have likes and dislikes of their own. Even if the 'I' identification is not there, a human is still acting through the body/mind and this equipment has likes and dislikes. Therefore the question, does some likes and dislikes last forever and will always be limiting factors? Are these just part of each one of us or how we are built? I would like to see what Taoism or other traditions say about such tendencies and the likes/dislikes.

Fascinating dialogue on Rigpa with insight. Thanks to Jonesboy & Steve.

That makes sense. In some yoga & meditation circles, they call this as overload. The issues resulting from such (clearing) overload can linger for days, sometimes for weeks, if too much was undertaken in short period of time. The challenging thing is, what is normal for most, can be too much for some resulting in such unpleasant outcome. It is always best to take it easy, when it comes to practices. Start slow with practices and gradually increase the times.

I went through something very similar to what you have described with meditation practices. While doing it I used to enjoy and go into deep states easily, however like how you mentioned, I would observe later, unease, agitation, a low level irritability and several other unpleasant things. Many times they were overwhelming. Yes, this is not the case with most people. I was really frustrated with this problem for over a decade. Not just with Buddhist meditation, this happened with any type of deep meditation practice that I undertook. The reason why the mantra chanting did not produce the same after effects in your case, is not because it is Hindu mantras vs. Buddhist practice. But, japa or chanting is a milder in clearing or removing the karmic obstructions vs. meditation practices. When we meditate, we are in some ways bringing the subconscious things to the conscious layer. Or untangling stored karmas, that are to do endured later, bringing them into the surface, to resolve them in the now. Sometimes, things can get overwhelming with this. In certain people, I am not sure because of higher sensitivity, this process of untangling or bringing things from subconscious to the conscious, brings way more things than the person can handle at the current moment resulting in unpleasant outcomes. In some, even a small intervals of deep meditation can bring out huge stuff into surface and cause a wide range of unpleasant things -- for whatever reason. I was one of those affected by this. This can be disappointing, not able to meditate consistently. All of this changed for me over the years. Most of my waking time is naturally in a meditative state these days. I can also do meditation as practice for any length I want without encountering issues these days. What changed? Many things and I went through some dramatic transformations in the past year. Anyway, the best thing that helped me with this, is in Merging and the guru yoga, thread Jonesboy has described, how some can share silence with others. I would suggest reading through this thread and ask any questions that you have, either there or here. There are group meditations also led by certain people, who can share their presence, being part of this can help alleviate some of the issues, (right away in some). This is something you might definitely want to try and see if it helps you. Since I have gone through what you have described, I can say it helped me in big ways. I was hesitating to share this here for certain reasons. Then, I decided I had to, knowing this can help someone. Good Luck.