s1va

The Shaiva siddhantha tradition from Tamil Nadu started as a dualistic tradition. In many ways it still is. But, after Kashmir Shaivism became popular (monism), the non-dual aspects were accepted. The KS non-dual is different from the Advaitic non-dual.

Lot of people confuse Turiya or the 4th state with conscious sleeping. I read some posts and articles where it states about retaining awareness consistently in sleep just like in the waking state. This is simply not possible and just a myth. It can happen for brief intervals in the dream state and this is called Lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming can be lot of fun and it seems to happen in a certain stage in the journey This lucid dreaming state is not the state of Turiya. The lucid dreams generally happen in the early stages after the opening of the 4th/5th chakras (heart & throat) and before the crown opening. It is extremely rare after the crown opening and the inner heart or the 8th chakra opening, after a person reaches the light stage. It is possible to induce lucid dreaming in the early stages, but some of the methods that do so can be harmful. Lucid dreaming just increases the awareness a bit, but there is not a whole lot of benefits besides that. Some traditions promote practices such as this as part of dream yoga. What is Turiya? It seems to be the fully awakened state that transcends all the other 3 states and is present all the time, generally described as the 4th state of consciousness that is beyond dreaming, wake and deep sleep states. Turiya and the states that lie beyond Turiya (Turiyatita) are extremely rare, as in may be one or two who have reached the state of a Buddha might experience this state. Temporarily having awareness at night during sleep for few hours or even few days is certainly possible. After a yoga nidra practice or when in nirvikalpa samadhi, a person might retain awareness in sleep. Once again this is not the state of Turiya or awakened sleep. Turiya seems to be a permanent shift into a new state that completely transcends all the other 3 and there is no going back after reaching this state once. The following article explains this concept and turiya in some detail.

I am not right wing and I don't recall ever getting into political discussions here. If you are eager for an argument or fight with a right winger and missing out on it, go find someone else for that. I have zero interest in getting into political discussions here. Good luck

Some one asked for a chakra scan and got what he wanted. But, this thread is going on 10+ pages. It is highly amusing, the amount of time, energy and effort people put on to this. Thanks and good luck :). Keep going.

Energetic connections with teachers and divine beings/deities are very common in Tantra. It is the fundamental of how tantric systems work. I wouldn't call it childish. And yet, you go on to pass so many judgements in that post based on second hand information. There is so much bashing in this thread. It's just sad! ---- Fear towards anything new and labeling what does not confirm with our ideas or sets of beliefs as a cult is not something new. It's just unfortunate to see you engaging in this.

Yes, that illusion is one of the basic tenets of Advaita. I cannot agree with some principles of Advaitic non-dual based on my experiences and understanding. Check out and read the non-dual as explained in Kashmir Shaivisim. You may find answers to some of your questions there. You may want to check out texts like Shiva Sutras, The secret supreme, The Triadic Heart or The doctrine of vibration -- to read or understand how non-dual is seen in KS and how it differs from Advaita. We had a discussion here in Hindu forum about non-dual as explained by Abhinavagupta vs the non-dual of Advaita. You can search for that topic, you may find some of the discussions interesting and covering some points you raised.

There were lenient policies, but it is unfair to state blanketly that racism, homophobia, etc. were demonstrably tolerated under previous admin's watch or call it your fault as you stated. I would just leave it at that. Certain members are also conveniently justifying their present actions of being rude, sarcastic and directly insulting others by simply blaming the past staff or some past events stating I went through this or put up with that. I noticed this happening in different areas of the site as a trend and feel it is just unhealthy. Though you are not responsible for this, it should be checked like any other unacceptable actions. It is just like when a ruler changes, some people settle their personal scores or spew venom and hatred towards those they dislike causing harm, and they go on to justify their actions by citing the atrocities that happened in the past, or they are part of some revolutionary movement that is changing everything. I think Rene summed it up really well and was just expressing that and welcoming her back in a brief post. Amazing how that one small post could upset so many here and get hostile disrespectful reactions, name calling and insults. I see no point in continuing this dialog further under such unhealthy environment. I wish you and this site the best going forward.

You seem to have a distinction between real world and the forums based on this and other posts. To me, this is as real as my daily life and a part of it. The friends I have here are real people that I know. Many of them are kind and good hearted, you can label them bigots. But, I am not sure on what basis you classify them as bigots without knowing who they are and what their beliefs are! Your post seems to imply the person you are interacting with are tolerant to racism, homophobia, etc. Not sure if this is a diversionary tactic to avoid addressing the real points brought up in my post. I am not tolerant towards any of these and as far as I know none of my friends are. In my experience, right wing or right leaning views does not automatically equate to racism or homophobia automatically. I have come across racists, misogynists and bigots with both left and right leaning views.

I have to call it as I see it respectfully. I have not been disrespectful or rude with anyone in my posts. If you found any of my posts disrespectful in anyway, you can point it out to me or report it. I can't help if you are irritated. I suggest with good intentions that you use the ignore user feature if my posts bother you. This way you won't be compelled to respond to my posts or get upset.

No matter who does it, it is abhorrent in my views. I am 100% with you, it's wrong. I can't speak for or justify why you were advised to ignore. Many times we can just call it out as I did or just ignore the member.

What I notice in the comments of certain members is intolerance, rudeness and sarcasm passed off as joke with a laughing emoji many times, in the guise of disagreement. Breeding resentment or hatred towards any one person or group is unhealthy. Best wishes!

I agree with you that the moderation was very lax. I accept the responsibility for that personally since I was part of the team. Though I never agreed with the lax moderation, and spoken openly against it and expressed my personal disgust with the heated Trump topic and other discussions. Requested it to be shut down more than once if you can search my old posts -- even when I was a moderator. It was just my view and it cannot be enforced due to policies set forth. Moderators were just enforcing the policy and direction given to them, not make decisions about the policies. I have respect for dawei, but I do not personally agree with the self moderation at all. None of this invalidates what Rene has pointed out with clarity and wisdom. Replacing one set of extreme views, intolerance and hatred with another set is sadly distasteful. Several long standing and good members left because of the intolerance in the views expressed in this strongly worded topic. Many of them do not have extreme views and were good and kind people. Someone was rude to me and told me to leave this site because I had some friends that left who have right leaning views. No one spoke against this or said this is wrong. Where is this intolerance going and what are the next set of directives? If you have a friend that is right leaning, leave the site immediately If your spouse, partner or parents have right wing views, leave the site If you are accused of right wing views by another member, leave the site forthwith Perhaps someone can clarify for some of us who may have friends or family with diverse views and people from all political spectrums. Also, please come out of the past and blaming old staff to divert and justify what is happening in the present, in the now.

Welcome back 🙂. Those brief sentences summarize and capture the essence of what's happening here in the last 2 weeks accurately in my views.

My point was very simple. Shutting down something just because it is not traditional may not be the right thing. I have tremendous respect and gratitude for traditions and the contributions they have made for everyone's welfare. This does not necessarily translate to say, I would reject things outside of traditions at face value just because they are not traditional. This is what majority of people did to the teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha because it did not comply with their view of tradition and values, and in their view he moved the goal post. The world is evolving, the human ability and the potential (to reach the goalpost) transforms from time to time. There are new turnings of wheel with great masters. In my view teachings get refined over time. The refined teachings does not necessarily mean the goal post has moved. The emptiness is always the same. But, our potential and out abilities to reach that goalpost can refine over periods of time. I believe with the advent of tantric teachings, the means and the ability to reach the goalpost became easier and refined for everyone. More such refinements in our abilities are possible as we progress and evolve. Let me illustrate this with an example. At the time of Buddha, the only way to reach India by sea from Europe was to circle the continent of Africa. This used to take several months. Later the suez canal was opened and a much shorter path through middle-east was found. Ships were able to reach India from Europe a month or few months earlier. With the advent of planes, the travel is in hours instead of days or months. The goalpost was always Europe to India. But the methods the means refined over time. Even within the Buddhist teachings, there are refinements like Mahayana and later the tantric teachings. We can respect the traditions and at the same time be open to receive such refinements and make use of the new possibilities available to everyone. Everyone needs to enquire and find the right thing that works for them. The most important things in my view are the open mindedness and an inquiring mind open to new possibilities, without which there can be stagnation or outright rejection of new possibilities. Yes, caution is needed to be on guard and not to fall for some dubious teachings that take advantage of people. But this caution cannot translate into outright rejection of every teaching that does not rigidly confirm to what is set forth in traditions or scriptures. Such outright rejection without investigation can be a loss to entire humanity.

Wanted to share my views on 'abiding', for what it's worth. Abiding or residing in the primordial state does not mean 'no action' or not undertaking the right action in the world outside. It is not exactly the same as Wu Wei, but there are some similarities. Some people translate the Wu Wei also as inaction or 'no action' or doing nothing. This is wrong in my opinion. I don't think any Taoist master taught anyone to do nothing in the world outside. It means effortless action while residing in the primordial state. There are concepts similar to Wu Wei and 'abiding' in Hindu Karma yoga also as part of the yogic tradition. This is described in detail in Bhagavad Gita. Abiding does not mean that one does not engage in external action, because it is not possible to live without acting in the world outside. The very act of breathing is action that goes on continuously when a person lives as Krishna points out in Gita. When someone is in 'abiding' or residing state actions like breathing, eating, sleeping and other day to day activities go on. Protecting oneself from harm (of any nature) is also part of this. J. Krishnamurti is a big propent of the philosophy, 'just be', to just reside in the present moment. This can easily be translated as not acting (doing nothing) when needed and to 'just be'. Krishnamurti explains clearly in his teachings the 'just be' does not mean inaction or doing nothing when an action is prompted. It means not to get caught up in 'mind stuff' while engaged in the right action outside.

Change is inevitable. The manifest universe is always constantly in a state of flux. Gautama Buddha advocated something against what you described. The Hindu priests of his time opposed Buddha with similar arguments. They wanted to follow what they believed as solid authentic and traditional teachings. Gautama Buddha's teachings were radical and against tradition at that time. Buddha taught us we should not accept anything at face value because it is traditional and in my opinion this is a very valuable lesson. I agree with the rest of what you stated. There are gullible students and some so called teachers who take advantage of them. But, an open and inquiring mind that is not rigid and locked with one belief system is very important. We need to adapt and progress in this ever changing universe.

How do we view the subjective? Reality is not entirely a phantom or non-existent illusion. Some traditions hold this view. I cannot agree with this and I don't think Buddhists hold this view of non-existent illusive universe as held by early traditions in India. To expand on what I stated earlier, following teachings from KS are my experience and belief on what is real and unreal. The key thing is the example given below comparing the universe to a non-existent dream or mirage. Per this view universe and all the objects in it do not 'really' exist. This is a different type of illusion (maya) than the one that is held in traditions like KS. KS and most tantric traditions I am familiar with reject such type of non existent illusion which rejects the reality of existence at the practical level. Why do they reject and what is held 'real' is explained below. It is entirely consistent with my views. Though I would agree the reality is subjective, I cannot agree that it is a non-existent illusion as explained above. At practical levels and layers, the manifest universe and it's objects exist and are real. In my view, we all share the same mind space or the filed or perhaps we can call it as kaya. A person who has realized oneness understands that he/she is not separate and expand to realize or become everything -- to be one with the universe. But at practical levels, the separation always exists as I explained earlier with the example of Gautama Buddha. Gautama Buddha after attaining Buddhahood still interacted with others as a separate person while in his body. This is the only way to act at practical layer. Buddha may have realized that he is everything, but he cannot eat for others through his mouth or function with his hands/legs for others. Also he/she cannot deny the reality of their existence and call it a phantom dream, the Buddha exists like everyone else. I stated the eating/hunger example just to illustrate the reality of separation at the practical layers. Though a person realizes ultimately everything is one, he/she still differentiates at the practical layer. In my view, this continues after a person leaves the physical body also. They continue as light beings, like the deities. People pray to various deities and interact with different beings. Such as past Buddhas and other angels, etc. A loose boundary for those beings (as separate beings) also continue to exist at a practical level and that is why we still call the light being as Gautama Buddha. Temples are built to pray/connect to the Gautama Buddha and other deities. Tantric practices to connect, overlap and merge with such beings exist. Those that pray, connect or merge to one light level being get the results from that being, not from another being or deity. This shows that separation exists at practical levels in this layer also. The prayer and connect happens at the level of duality and of the local mind and are inferior to the merging. Merging is a non-dual concept and explained by some others very well on the first 2 or 3 pages of this thread/topic and discussed further for several more pages. Those that have explained the merge have done it way better than I could. I don't want to go over on the merge part again. In my view this is somewhat similar to the visualization as a Buddha or deity done by tantric practitioners. It is not simply visualization when initiated by a teacher and a student has the empowerment to actually connect to that light being or merge.

Hi CT, Good to see you back in the forums. I was on a break when you got back. Appreciate your sharing also. I am off to somewhere right now. When I get back. I will elaborate on what I stated based on my experiences since you asked. You may not agree, but that's fine. My explanation might borrow a bit from KS and other tantra traditions, just a forewarning. It won't be entirely from Buddhist perspective. - Siva.

You used the word 'belief'. That shows it is individual and there can be differences based on each person's perception. All of us are unique. Questioning another person's belief based on their experiences is a futile exercise. This is the point I was trying to make on CT's post. I may think of someone else's belief from their experiences as misunderstanding and misrepresentation. That will just be my opinion. Thanks for the discussion.

Everything is real relatively and at practical levels. If someone were to go in front of the train in Disney Magic kingdom saying this is not real, just a character train. Well, they can experiment by stepping on the tracks and in front of the train and finding out what is universally ‘real’ at practical level in the world. In the meantime each one of our reality is real to us with respect to connecting and merging with deities, Buddhas or other beings of light.

Even after one attains equipoise the separate individual perception continues at least until the death of the physical body potentially even afterwards as a light or formless being, like Buddhas and deities. At least this is my understanding and experience in connecting and merging. Since they exist as a light being, we are able to connect and merge. This separation as a sentient being and the perception of individual separation at practical aspects level has no bearing on state of just residing or equipoise. When Gautama Buddha lived after his full realization of emptiness (as claimed by him and accepted by me and several others 🙂), he was still subject to human frailities and old age as described in historical accounts and Buddhist sutra from observations. There are many interesting stories, discussion and observations as documented by his immediate disciples. At one point Buddha makes certain statements which almost sound like grief at the passing away of one of his disciples. Not only was he in his separate individual perception, most encounters documented are samsaric at practical levels. In my mind there is no doubt that Gautama Buddha ever lost equipoise because of such perception or interaction. -------- On CTs post about Buddha and realization, my mention was just to point out ageing, memory and cognitive decline happens to everyone including Buddhas as observed historically with Gautama Buddha and as documented in Sutras. Nothing really exploring into Buddhas.

Wanted to express my thoughts on this, if it's okay. What happened, like a slip in memory or wrong association by the intellect has nothing to do with true meditation in my humble opinion. The perceived reality is not only true and valid at all times from the perspective of the mind, it is essential to function at practical levels in the world. All of this has nothing to do with true meditation or state of just residing in the energy or light. The memory and intellect are components of the mind. Such things can and will happen to anyone including a Buddha and not indicative of loss of equipoise in my view. For instance everyone including fully realized Buddha will grow older and age and have corresponding cognitive decline but this cannot be taken as a measure of true meditation or lack of equipoise.

I mentioned the state of mind. I stated it's my view and I was not referring to Norbu or Dzogchen.

Yes, I have found the discussion about Universal mind in Lankavatara Sutra fascinating. The same sutra and several others also talk about 'no self' and emphasize upon it. We can always discuss and interpret it in various ways. Following is the full text of the Sutra for anyone interested. http://buddhasutra.com/files/lankavatara_sutra.htm In my view clarity is a state of mind. It is not about thoughts, but thoughts can arise and exist in the state of clarity.

Sounds like more anger and venom pouring out. Just relax, take a breath and take it easy. I am neither left, right or far right or pro Trump or against Trump. Most of your message makes no sense except as some ramblings based on some assumptions and false allegations and false characterization. It sounds like you want to create a picture of me as a far right person, because it suits you and you want to get rid of me from this forum. In your own worrds, you want me to leave and return to the place more aligned with my values just because you think I have right leaning friends or simply because you don't want me in the site. Can you cite or provide a single proof to substantiate that I was leaving towards right or supported such idealogy? I don't think you can because I never did. Way to go, talking about tolerance! I have never once made a right leaning post or supporting Trump. I have openly expressed my disgusti in those Trump topics. What's the difference between this, you asking me to leave the forum and return to what is suitable, and Trump telling people he dislikes to return back to places from where they came from? No difference at all, simply blind hatred, telling people they do not like to just leave with no good reason. Add sheer hypocrisy in your case to preach against Trump, but act exactly like Trump in your real life telling others you dislike to leave and go where they come from or back to their suitable places. I have no intention to carry on this conversation with someone like you, filled with resentment and anger because you couldn't have your way and get rid of some post from TDB. Making multiple stunts saying I am leaving TDB, just to get sympathetic posts. Later come back and say I was so hurt by this person doing this and that person doing that and all staff conspiring against you. Trust me the staff had better things to do. Though I never had any will towards you, I apologized just to make you feel better and to help you let go of the destructive anger and rage. Then you justify your past actions, and go on a ramble asking me to leave the site. None of this has anything to do with left/right politics. You try to make it so, to paint me as against the liberals, simply to take advantage of the current situation in the forum to meet your ends. That is just sick! Here are my final words for you. I have no interest in checking or responding any further to your posts. The last time I checked, you are not the owner, admin or moderator in this site. So, your statements telling me to leave the site has no bearing on me. Just useless hypocritical and rude words. Do us all a favor and try to keep such comments and ultimatums to yourself. I hope people like you don't end up in the staff here and start getting rid of whoever they dislike from the leftover members.