Foundit

It has many names yet it really shouldn't have one in the first place as it can become a massive distraction as most words and concepts have baggage. It's the most obvious and allusive pot of gold (or crap) there is

 Nonetheless.



 Do you really want enlightenment? I mean really want it. 
 
 As in throw away all that your have achieved up to now in regard to your path and trinkets you picked up along the way (pun intended).

 
Ah yes. That should be addressed. The way, the dao. I love this stuff. When I learnt about the Way many years ago it lit something inside of me and since then i've been, erm, lets say brainwashed, by several ways to be, how to be, why to and what to be - not that i'm complaining, it was a fun ride. 

So. I have a, lets call it, (un)perspective, that differs to almost all those around me and I see people getting bogged down in stories that although are fun and entertaining, will untimely never lead to, erm, enlightenment - unless it's seen for what it is - which might be the reason they exist in the first place. Who knows.

 Oh yes. I'm not all knowing but I know something that can't be wavered and should (being modest here) be able to stand up to almost any line of inquiry (or attack if you're feeling feisty).

 I'm not really sure why i'm here, I both don't care and stopped asking certain things. It is what it is.
 If it becomes unhealthy for others I'll leave - if i get bored i'll also leave.
 And enough noise, back to the original question, do you really want enlightenment? If so, whats stopping you from seeing it right now (and i mean that literally, not figuratively).

Don't take me (too) seriously - or maybe you will - is it really up to you anyway? I guess we'll both find out. I've lurked on here a while enjoying some posters comments regarding a particular matter, and now, i'm posting it seems. Most likely to entertain myself and to share and express something incredibly obvious which some might what to hear, and others not. Once I feel it leads to where it has lead, I'll say my farewell.

I'm away now. Thanks for allowing me to indulge and share in my topic of interest. As one poster mentioned, this forum maybe isn't one for proper inquiry into the matter - which means I would only spoil things for people and that is not my intention. You don't need anyone to figure it out other than yourself and the reality that's infront and within. All the best and enjoy the rides.

Sit back and watch the show unfold while pretending i'm in control. The second question, I don't know. I can guess, but that doesn't help and isn't a practical inquiry. Stick to what you know here and now and leave all guessing alone.

When reading my post, replace all the 'you' with 'I'. Thats where the focus should be. If not, it's pointing at the wrong place when reading it to yourself

A part of this involves emptying our cups - including ideas on how people are suppose to act and be. I can't speak of those you mentioned, but it's not about them. It's about you. It's not about me and my verbal diarrhoea either. It's about you. You. Always look there. This isn't about spiritual experiences, as fun as there are. None of us have any say in the matter on what we end up doing, or not. We can become distracted easily, even more so when things sparkle. From an evolutionary story perspective, that meant water. So we would stop and have a good look, forgetting where we were going. If one does the proper work - diligently - towards it, you'll remain as you are. Just a lighter version of it maybe. Over time some things might get watered down further as things are seen for what they are without additional story-noise that comes along with the content. We are who we are, or rather we are who we pretend to be. Hoping to become another type of person isn't what this is about, it's about undoing the person we think we are right now, revealing....well....only you can find out. This isn't about feeling good and listening to descriptions either - it's about finding out what reality really is. I'm not sure the story ever ends - it's far too entertaining.

Indeed. I'm definitely a poser by the way. Hard not to be in life, especially when talking about this

When it's all you, the situation is still as it is. Sadness still can pop up, but the relationship to that sadness is different. If anything it's more pure as there less ego to play with it further than it needs to be. And yet, again, it's not helpful/practical to hear someone's interpretation of what it is like (not that it's like anything, other than it is what it is). The content of life is varied and thus the experiences vary. If you focus on the contents you'll be there forever and never get anywhere. Focus should be where/what its all occurring on/in. So, get there and see for yourself, then life will happen as it was always going to (which may or may not involve your choice of example life experiences) If you're not wanting to do the work, leave it be. Play in the theme park and go on as many rides as possible. If you want to leave the theme park you know what to do. Thats my ultimate pointless point starting this thread and participating.

And yet one can unpin non-mystery. It's so simple that many miss it.

Yep hence the accepted delusion to play and get involved. Just passing through, maybe just to answer your questions it seems. The theme of this forum is the Way. The Dao. If the above posts made what that is a bit clearer that would be nice. If not, that too is nice. Ah shucks it's all nice, it is the Way after all. See you when I see you.

So first it can't be an experience. It's a constant. That helped. There was also a running theme from the others who talked about that I'm already there. I'm lucky in the sense I hadn't collected too much baggage, never fully identified with one school or belief. I was a dabbler and I never like all those complicated and foreign words describing things (too much work had to be done learning that stuff and it felt like a waste of time) Now I had many insights, and made many mistakes. I had to approach each new insight with maturity and pull it apart. Not always fun if you think you've discovered something important. The questions. What is true? or how is this false? Helped That classic who am I? morphed into a more practical. Who/what am I not? If it could change, or be different from one person to another again it had to be thrown out. Everything left and all that was left is what is. Nothing really that special, while at the same time, kinda is. I did stop a few steps too early and made errors. That corrected itself. Being on this forum talking about this feels like an error in many ways but it is doing something to help the adjustment if i pretend so

1. I stopped and just looked again at what was infront of me. That felt like an important step. I had to work through a lot of my on BS and I did that with a pen and paper. No more lying for comfort reasons. If it didn't feel good, I was on the right track. 2. Time and I have a unique relationship now. Past and future are very alien to me. To answer, a while. A year or so maybe more. It was;t really important at the time. 3. Can't say. Err the past? Not helpful. Lets say 3/5 years ago as there's a reference point in my memory somewhen then. 4. Yep. Re read, re watched past people and it all made complete sense now. All of it, like no doubt about it. I also attacked it myself of course and it never wavered. 5. I want to say attitude but thats not right. Thoughts, feeling still remain, as does everything. Ah. relationship. Relationship to it all, thats whats changed. No more seriousness (not that I had too much anyway) and general playfulness to everything - especially to myself (and others) 6. Adjustment maybe. Not always easy to be around others. I have to play with children who believe in things that from my perspective is a lie and creates suffering in them. I stopped talking about it and I play my role according to whats happening. It's like being on a stage and reminding everyone were all just acting. Spoils things and doesn't make much sense if they don't know. It gets boring though. Like being sober around drunks.

Neti neti: You discovered the meaning of life. The why all 'this' is happening. Congrats. Entertainment is the only good reason for it all - whether one is aware of it or not. Silent thunder: Byproducts, ah yes. There are many. I remember being told that I should act out certain ways to get there. Those conceptual labels I strived to adhere to only genuinely came about as a byproduct, they didn't come first, they came after. Another distraction until I stopped, went back and started the inquiry again from a level of honesty I'm glad I was able to come to.

Just to reinforce something important. I have complete delusional acceptance right now. I wouldn't, couldn't, be here on this forum if I didn't. On so many levels i'm pretending just to be here and it makes me think I must be the most insane pretend person on here. Joyful freedom despite knowing whats real. Playful ignorance just to stay involved. There are the idea of others for a reason - just like there is the idea of an individual self. Neither are real, but they are here. Not sure I can say anything other than whats been said already now. If prompted by another pretend person that may change, I look forward to finding out the same time you do. I may even disappear which would also make sense.

What's wrong with having nothing left. It all comes back but your attitude is never the same if you keep going - because everything is the same thing in the end and theres no separation between anything as the screen becomes all, while the movie content continues to change and dazzle us yet with less...importance, attachment and other words to that nature. Doing the work for people wasn't my intention, thats why I said people should approach their own posts without an air of confirmation bias. Prove yourself wrong rather than prove yourself right. Ignore me and focus on yourself and everything you believe and hold on to comfort oneself. If that what I came here to share thats what was needed to be shared. And although it may seem i'm directing this to you, theres always more going on. Well I can't say that for sure, but as with most things these days, I have to pretend just to play along and my play my role, which happens to be doing this right now.

Cauvery: Falseness hunting so to speak is much more practical. Hardcore Neti Neti, not the poster the approach You get left with Truth you could say but you have to see whats it's not to know what it is. The amusement park of life is fun, but you need to believe in lies to play in it. That's why it might not be for everyone and if some people are mature enough they can see that and leave it alone and play with a new sense of authority without needing to change things or look for something that might ruin the game. Delusional acceptance you could say. I better trademark that.

Bubbles: Your first post has a lot of assumptions and noise about this and that. Life has content, sure, thats what we focus on and get lost in, look at what or where it's all happening on. Second post: You never know. Theres knowledge and knowing. I know nothing about lineages and their interpretational baggage, but I know and nothing can shake that. Maybe that's why i'm here to play. MooNiNite I: I could try, but i'd end up sounding like an airy muppet. Akin to trying to describe water when all us fish are swimming in it (and are it). Very silly and won't make much sense. Mix the word around are you get "lightening up" - which one can only do if they see what they are really not - leaving you with what you are and the true definition of the word. Much more easier to say what it's not - safer too as it won't lead people astray looking for something that really doesn't matter until one sees what it's not. If however you need a description, read/listen to those that describe it and find the recurring theme and use that as benchmark. I don't feel comfortable describing for the above distraction reason, yet I did say this a few posts above: It's constant - not an experience All ways here - as long as I am Not what I thought it would be Additional: it's everywhere and nowhere depending where the focus is Anyway, more importantly, who cares what my definition of it is. It's all about you. It always has been, it's not about me (other) - i'm words on screen talking nonsense. Deal with me later. First you. That wasn't the best of questions one could ask if you really wanted it - so, i wonder, what is a good question? 3bob: I'm already seeing the error of my approach. Marblehead: You didn't exist for a sec. Good stuff. So you tested yourself by pinching and it hurt and declared you existed once again. Could you have gone further? If pain can come and go. Not it. Where was the pain? I see your logic but there was more. Again, we want to eliminate everything we're not, including ideas that we don't exist, keep going, until your left with what left. It might be a disappointment to many who have elevated the concept through stories and assumptions. And, I'd have to disagree. There might not be truths, but there is Truth. The finale so to speak. It doesn't really seem like it as it's more like No-lies conclusion. It's like a bait and switch. You can't lie anymore because the curtains have come down and you've seen the joke. Nothing's the same anymore, while also very similar. Cauvery: Not bad, keep going. If you think you've come to answer to a question. Revisit the next day and pull it apart and see the underlying falseness of it all. Its not always fun, especially if we have to destroy something we really identify with. Don't settle especially if you've think you come up with something. Getting to a place where you seen past everything is a lonely place. You can't kid yourself anymore and you'll know without a doubt. Shortstuff: If you want it - use what you have right now. Become a scientist of your reality and look at it from every angle. Write down an apparent truth and see the error, focus on the assumption we make. Every time you come up with a new truth, look it at it again another day and see the error. Rince and repeat for a few years while being gentle on yourself. Approach it like a curious child rather than a serious seeker. ____ Although I may be challenging here all i'm pointing to is to keep going if you really want it. If you post something in response, come back here and pull it apart yourself, rather than have me do it. Much more helpful as it's you doing it to you. No lying to yourself anymore. Rest if you need to do, but get back to it and destroy everything, literally, and whatever doesn't burn after repeated examination, you'll know, and you'll discover that no one can know more than that and that you're equal to everyone including all masters past and present. Read over there stuff and you'll see it all a new light. Then feck around and relax as it's all a big joke and the best part of it all, is that you're the punch line.

CT: Wait. My thoughts led me to my first reply but now a question arises. Your statement "If anyone can completely renew the thinking that there is a self that enlightens, they would cease suffering in an instant." implies that you seen this to be true. Does that mean you don't suffer, like, at all, ever? If not and this is just a belief, how can you know it's really really true, no doubt whatsoever true, until you get there. Are you not just repeating something you heard and collected without doing the real work to get there?


CT: Sure. Thats not the end of it. That old not mountains thing happens. Good thing there was water there to douse me back to real reality so to speak and I could pick up my axe again. You'll always need wood for the fireplace even if you don't think you do (think being the operative word there in case you missed it). Good times.

Kar3n: Thank you Rishi Das: I may have said all I was going to say. We need others to interact with otherwise I'm left with myself with nothing to say. I am where I am and it's silly describing things for my own sake. Good thing I enjoy my own company as I truly do love my ego - highly entertaining 


Jetsun: Yep, suffering can make us stop and have a good look around. Not always a bad thing really Brian: I was one too. Then I wasn't. Now, i just am. Which is very relaxing I may add. Like watching a movie with a character dangling below me that pretends to be in control and feels seperate - where in reality - thats just part of the content on the screen, and for which i'm glad is still around.

I'm not one for supporting delusions and illusions but I came across this idea in the past and it seemed like fun...not that I beleive it of course. I don't believe in anything anymore - only what everyone else does so I can still play along. Anywho, enjoy the idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jHsq36_NTU

I re-read what I wrote and I digressed with descriptions. Not helpful.



 I guess my intention wasn't so much to share what it's like but show how we ignore whats so obvious. One way is to assume what it's like without ever being there. It's always best to see for yourself.
 All thats useful is what needs to be done to get there. It's impossible to really describe and any description becomes another goal or marker - again not helpful. 


On many occasions I may have saw what I had been looking for but my belief (important) that it was suppose to be like something else stopped me seeing it clearly, just as it was. 



Throw away all your assumptions, start from the beginning and be practical and logical. Ignore descriptions of the apparent state and do what needs to be done to get there. For that reason I led with the question asking if people really wanted it.



 No matter how long you've been seeking - would you be willing to start all over again for a chance to find out what enlightenment really is - not what you just assume it is?



 What ever you are expreincing right now is all you need to begin. Nothing else. You don't attain anything, all you do is unattain ignorance and get left with what you're left with. 
 
In many ways it completly ruins the game, once seen it cant be unseen. If it's not for you, leave seeking enlightment and play as many rides in the themepark as possible. If that invloves seeking enlightment, accept with maturity that thats just another ride you're on which will keep you going round and round but may never stop anywhere you hoped. However, if you feel that pull again or the lies become unbearable i'm sure you'll know what needs to be done. It all starts with you.

Yes, I did avoid that question. As lame and unoriginal as it sounds - and is - both everything and nothing [shakes head in disappointment] I want to say Truth. With a capital T, meaning not relative truth. I might also call it the screen, wait I just did. The thing it's all happening on, the backdrop so to speak. Everything, all knowledge, others, universe, me, you are all playing on it. The ultimate screen. Contents don't matter, they change. The screen dosen't, and can't. It's constant - not an experience All ways here - as long as I am Not what I thought it would be Marblehead: (Not all directed at you just throwing up) Regarding your answer. So you're on a journey with no destination ay? Who told you that, some random you bumped into along it, yourself after repeating and hearing it over and over - Can you really trust yourself to be telling you the Truth if you don't know for sure who or what yourself is? Could it be that we tell ourselves a lie to avoid the truth (i'll stop putting a caps on it). What if you're already at your destination but still looking down at a map, the fold out paper kind thats so big that it covers your whole experience. What if we challenged everything though. Neti neti style. For years. Lose everything. Drop everything that we identify with and find out what remains? Edit: Deleted various paragraphs. I'll attempt to be more on point

Thats both an easy and hard question to answer. I'll create a thread and you can come play if you feel the pull. Thanks for welcome - this should be slightly interesting.