Aetherous

What do the actual occult schools teach about abortion, or about various laws which would relate to it?

...nevermind

I think your work here is actually very interesting, and appreciate that you're sharing so much of it.

Having been trained as an EMT, combat medic, and another type of healthcare professional...I tend to view "human life" as being a working heartbeat. Considering the unique and somewhat mysterious nature of what causes a heart to keep beating, I tend to equate that with being a "person" and having a unique consciousness. Esoterically, I personally view "life" and "spirit" as being the same thing...and the seat of consciousness is in the living heart. In a sense we could say that individual consciousness is the "soul". For the fetus, the heart begins to beat something like 18 days after conception...this is aside from the facts presented in this article, regarding other factors that make a fetus a unique living human being. So for people to say that a fetus isn't a person, doesn't have a life or a spirit, doesn't have a soul, doesn't have consciousness...is absolutely false in my view. Because it has a heartbeat! I agree with h.uriahr, that the justifications for abortion are generally selfish in nature. "A woman has a right to choose what happens to her body" is an argument often presented, and I agree...but she doesn't have a right to choose regarding the life or death of the living human being inside of her. That is not an appendage to be surgically removed, but is actually a separate consciousness...the heartbeats may sync up due to being so connected, but they are definitely separate hearts beating! If we believe that souls choose human bodies, we could clearly say that deciding to have an abortion is infringing the free will decision of that soul, to live. Of course a fetus can't express its desire to live in the English language, which is what confuses the not-so-bright into thinking that it doesn't yet have a personality or will of its own to desire that...and therefore in their minds, makes it okay to do whatever they want to it.

O-at-a-McD's

There is currently a 5 day online seminar going on, starting today, which is a commentary on the root text of "Tara's Triple Excellence". The seminar talks will be available online until the 24th. Each day there are two, hour-and-a-half long sessions with Chokyi. So 3 hours. There are other things in addition, for instance on 4 of the days there is an additional hour-and-a-half meditation session with another lama, so it really takes up quite a bit of time each day. I'm not sure if it will be in primarily English, or if there will be a translator for Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche. It's $54 to have access to this seminar. First you need to register on DharmaSun for free, and then click on "Online Seminar" on the home page to be able to view this info. From there you can register. This commentary on the root text is a prerequisite for an upcoming seminar "Oral Instructions in the Vajrayana Tradition" starting on Nov 16th, which is also a 5 day, $54 online program; which will be accessible until the 30th. They do these big seminars once a year, apparently. I'm thinking of doing it just to learn, but not practice.

What do you mean by this, Isimsiz Biri? What is your group? What things do you do, and why would it be surprising?

Here is a link discussing what I mentioned about how corporations are getting more from our taxes than welfare recipients: http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/19844-food-stamps-are-affordable-corporate-welfare-is-not

Well, I know they would. Why speak from inexperience?

The only way I would believe Libertarian ideas about people naturally being compassionate, is if the Libertarian party set up a fund to support all of the homeless and poor in America and actually pulled it off long term. Once that happens, I'll consider their ideas...until then, it's all talk. All I see right now is that people who need help get it from government programs (sometimes they're not even able to), and Libertarians are quick to point their fingers and say on one hand "don't take even a cent from my hard earned money, that's slavery, I want freedom" and on the other hand to destitute people "you should find a better job so you can survive this society". Survival? That's what America is to us now? That's certainly what the "free market" makes life into! For instance, you can bring up the wages of a McDonalds worker to a Libertarian and get the answer: "they should go to college and get a better job, or become skilled at something". Yeah that might be true for some people, but it's an ignorant answer all around, and doesn't tackle the real issue (corporations getting away with paying low wages in a society that demands a "living wage" to merely survive. The dollar even 10 years ago was a lot more valuable than it is today!). I see the opposite of compassion in this party; I see greed under the guise of "freedom". Compassion also involves consideration...but it's not a considerate party that has no mercy for those who need help, and has limitless mercy for those who don't. Let me tell you something: freedom is not homeless families down the street from multi million dollar mansions. It's not kids starving on the streets of our country, while others are eating $500 meals and giggling away. On the other hand, admittedly, "freedom" is also not pure socialism or communism. So, freedom. My view is that society itself has taken our freedom on a fundamental level. True freedom to me, would be to go find an open piece of land, build a house on it, not pay any money to anyone for the house or the land, be able to hunt fish and grow my own stuff. That is the basis of freedom. That's how we're supposed to live in the natural world. A society could possibly exist with that system in place, even with a form of government. That is where Libertarianism would thrive. People wouldn't interfere in the lives of others (for instance through taxes), if this basis were in place. Government could be used to simply protect individuals' freedoms..."big brother" in the more true sense of the word, protecting you from those who illegally infringe on your rights. It is possible in another world. Instead, here we have a society where you need money to have food, water, clothing, and shelter...the very basics of mere survival. In this, the right to "life" has been taken when you can't get food or water. The right to "liberty" is obviously gone...and the right to "pursue happiness" is limited unless you land a good job, and that requires a certain quality of clothing and showers etc. It's set up to enslave (employ or destroy) the lower classes and legally nullify their rights (until they can afford to get them back). The rich get richer. This is not freedom, and it's not something Libertarians address. In this climate, government is actually a blessing, and a protection against the compassionless. Libertarians want to blame people on welfare (who are actually the victims of society) for the state of things, rather than recognize that the monetary system and people's greed is the very problem. A poor person owning an iphone might be a strange sight, but it's not a problem to you at all...what does that person get out of our paychecks? Like a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a cent? The argument does not matter...do Libertarians know where the majority of their taxes go, anyway? Not primarily to those who need it, such as the poor! Taxes go to many different things in government...taxes also go to benefit corporations, which is pretty messed up in my view. I recall seeing something which showed how more of our taxes go to that than to welfare programs! Why don't Libertarians discuss this issue.......? Of course, it's not realistic to get rid of land ownership, the monetary system, etc, in our current society. People would whine about infringements on their "right" to own tons of unused property (which is funny in comparison to the right to life being less considered, if we're talking about the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. Cash is king). But since Libertarianism is about ideology instead of pragmatism, we might as well point this disparity out! The ideal of not infringing on anyone else's personal life doesn't work when you're already infringed upon by all people in the society. Or a quote about society: "Hell is other people". No offense to anyone, or you Aaron...political views are a touchy subject...but I'm strongly against the Libertarian party. I think it's set up to seem very appealing, but in reality is destructive to the entire country...so I view it as a threat to Liberty, ironically. It's true that it's very close to Anarchism...but not a good form of it, in my view. I mean look at what it does already, setting one person against another pointlessly (the rich, or even lower classes who watch Fox News, trying to blame the poor). We should look at real solutions, rather than what we merely believe would work (which is not tested in reality). For instance, the day that Libertarians set up a way to provide a lasting and workable alternative to welfare, to unemployment, to food stamps, etc...is the day that we can start to consider that we don't need the government to take taxes for those things. Simply saying, "trust us, we're good people, we'll give money to those who need it, look at how much we donate to various charities...we'll do this as long as you stop taxing us for those things, don't take a cent from my hard earned money!" makes no sense. Just sharing my personal view on this, since they were asked for, and it might help people consider something different...I won't get into any political discussions, as that's against my code of conduct. Respect to those who adhere to different views.

The way I described it is pointing at the way it always works, not just based on intent or what's in the mind. For instance, if you happen to sit with your hands folded in front of the dantian naturally, when watching TV for instance, it will have a similar effect to if you sit in meditation with the hands folded in front of the dantian. Your mind can be somewhere else entirely, and it will always work to produce a certain effect. Standing like a tree and standing at the bus stop are literally the same, if you maintain the same basic posture (knees slightly bent, the knee as a weight transference joint rather than bearing)...standing no matter what will increase energy in that same way. Waiting for the bus does not diminish your true results! lol. You can notice this when your channels are open and your intuition is developed...practice is basically happening constantly. For instance, just like an hour ago I was standing in the kitchen talking to a relative and I was basically doing zhan zhuang...not even making any postural adjustments or breathing in a specific way or anything. It just happens. It would have made little difference if I had gone outside and got into the perfect stance. Every single thing we do has an effect. For beginners, it will take some quietude to notice that something is happening with a practice, such as standing. For when teachers give alternatives, such as sitting for those who can't stand...depending on the exercise it will still work, or it might not at all. For instance, you cannot practice zhan zhuang (standing) while sitting...it'll have a different effect which isn't what zhan zhuang does. About the only similarity is that your spine is straight upright in both, so it will have similar effects only based on that. That is a case where intent and expectations would come into it, as you're saying...the person tries to sit, and because their attention isn't distracted by things like TV or other people, they will notice various sensations and will think it's working. Their intent will bring about some result. The quietude will make it noticeable. No matter what, though, the effect won't be the same as if they were standing...for that example of zhan zhuang. On the other hand, if there was a mudra you were told to do while standing, and the teacher said it was also okay to sit, the effect will be basically the same whichever way you pick...because the working of that method is based on the mudra. The effect does not rely on standing. So basically: sometimes postures or various actions matter quite a bit for the result. I do not suggest in any way that a person can have the intent to improve qi flow and become healthy, and that it will work. Nor do I suggest that postures are based on various things you're doing with your mind, such as imagining a dantian and the hand in front of it connecting energies etc. You could do some rehashed taiji set (movements which don't have an internal purpose) while having this intent, and achieve literally nothing...or you could lift weights and achieve a lot more, because you would actually be causing qi to flow. Or you could do a qigong set that's legitimate and achieve specific results that don't change based on intent. You can do these things without intent, and they will still work.

People do understand this. Yang Jwing Ming's books are really not that good. In fact, most books don't contain this knowledge...pretty much only a cultivator with significant practice experience and a developed intuition can say what does what, especially if they study a lot of different things (like traditional medicine, other systems, etc). Or a teacher of a real lineage, but I think even they come to the knowledge through the same way. I'll give you an explanation of how to cultivate qi, which is based on Chinese medicine theory... The food that you eat is transformed by the stomach and spleen, and combines with the air that you breathe which is taken in by the lungs, with the help of the kidney and original qi. This combined breath and food qi is combined with your original qi, and is thus transformed into the true qi, that travels through the meridians (nutritive qi) to nourish the body, and outside of the meridians to fight pathogens (protective qi)...to create health. So you want to optimize the function of the various organs (one way of doing this can be going to bed early which supports the liver, another way is acupuncture which can tonify weak organ systems), provide good nutrition, and breathe...as well as maintaining the original qi, for instance by not being oversexed. There are other ways of benefiting original qi, for instance with the guanyuan acupoint. So that's an idea of how to have "qigong". Here is an example of something that can be intuited based on practice, about why there are different arm positions, which you don't find in many books: Where the fingers point, energy shoots out of the tips...they are like a guide to where energy will flow in general. This is a different form of energy from what circulates through the meridians...it's more like light, than like a nutritional substance. Where your palm points is what you are coming in contact with or "facing"; for instance if you face the palm to the sky, you're connecting with heavenly qi. Combining those two ideas: lets say your palms are facing the earth in front of the lower dantian, with the fingers pointed at a 45 degree angle inward, making a sort of triangle shape. You're connecting to the earth, at the level of the dantian which also relates to the earth as well as the physical body in general...the fingers are causing energy to flow forward from the dantian, which purifies the body. When they face slightly inward toward each other, creating a triangle shape...any time there is a point, energy is caused to flow where the point is pointing. For instance, when you look at this triangle, it causes energy to flow upwards as well as provides a base of support because the energy is also flowing downward and outward. So when the fingers point at a 45 degree angle forward, it's causing energy to flow forward from the dantian, which has specific transformational effects on that energy center. Another example could be palms facing the sky, arms out at the sides, hands at head level. This obviously is working at the level of the upper dantian, which relates to the sky as well as the spirit, in a very basic explanation, and you're connecting to the sky with the palm facing position. Arms being out at the sides has an effect on that dantian, basically opening it rather than transforming its energies...and the fingers are likely pointed out to the sides as well, so they cause the energy to flow outward (which opens it). There could be an example of fingers pointed forward while the hands are on the sides of a dantian. This has an effect of opening as well as transforming...the hand position energetically pulls the center open, and the finger position energetically shoots energy forward, transforming it. Forward relates to upward, backward relates to downward...so when energy is shooting forward from lets say the middle dantian, it means energy is also rising from the middle dantian. When a type of energy is flowing upward or forward, there is also a corresponding downward or backward flow of a different type of energy...basically think of electrical current. From what I understand, it doesn't flow in only one direction but simply creates a type of connection. The right arm is related to the right nadi which is solar or yang, the left arm to the left nadi which is lunar or yin...the center of the body is related to the central channel, the sushumna nadi, or the taiji pole. When you move the right hand toward the center of the body, it means that energetically the solar nadi is going into the central channel. If the hand is at the heart, it means that it's happening at that level of the central channel. Getting away from the effect of the location of hands...different movements have different effects, which are more physical. If you shake your arms, you'll probably feel buzzing...it's stimulating the qi or the nervous system in that area of the body, the hand and arm. If you swing your arm, the hand will likely become filled with blood...so you're moving the blood. If you massage it will bring the blood to that point, because the skin becomes red and warm. This is all in the realm of study of "tui na". Different points have different effects....for instance if you massage the skin around your kidneys, it will strengthen the functioning of the kidneys. Some qigong styles use tapping or rubbing of various acupuncture points to do this, although it isn't considering the individual constitution of the practitioner....so if there's a kidney strengthening form, and someone has strong kidneys already but a weak spleen, they're not going to get the results they seek. They also do stretching, which will stretch open the meridians. For instance, if you hyperextend your wrist, you'll be stretching the yin channels of the arm, affecting all of them in some way. This is why some qigongs have you stretch. There is also the light effect, rather than just the physical effect...it will cause energy to expand out of the body. To contrast, if you flex the wrist, it will keep energy more in the body. Not every qigong actually has benefits, or is designed intelligently. In fact, most probably aren't. Sometimes it won't even related to the physical channels...for instance if it includes various mudras. These can have symbolic purposes, rather than directly affecting the flow of qi through the channels. They might be related to the elements of each finger...of which there are different schools of thought. This is a very basic overview, with simple explanations...just to give you an idea that people do actually understand why they do different things. The fact is that each action you do, no matter what it is, has wide ranging effects which are hard to summarize without a lot of study and insight as well as receiving teachings. There are also different systems of study which can be used to compare findings...acupuncture, tui na massage, taoist alchemy, yoga, marma, etc. One book that has some basic explanations of a qigong form is this one about wild goose qigong. I haven't read it because I don't practice that, but there you go.

Are you talking to me? I can barely make sense of your post, or why you posted it at me.

Yup.

Of course, especially at different times. Looking at world history isn't taking into consideration what's happening on a spiritual level, though. We could look at times of war sprouting up, for instance for Americans, Vietnam or Iraq/Afghanistan, and say that it indicates periods of deep change...that's true to some extent. But I personally think there's a lot more spiritual growth happening in the past couple years than any that I can recall...so much, that there are significant growing pains for most people. Karmic debt or something. A lot of people are actually more burdened in many ways than ever before right now...not just financially or in life circumstances, but emotionally and spiritually too. At some point it will let up, and we will notice how prosperous and easy things are in all aspects of being...if we have good memory, we will be able to compare it to now. Not trying to convince anyone of anything; just saying that I think this is a different sort of period the past few years, whether we can notice that or not. ...by the way, newage beliefs and the Mayan calendar are something else from what I'm referring to. I'm just speaking from personal experience and observation.

I actually think there is something to it...but I don't think it had to do with that specific date. There has been a lot of deep change going on in the world in the past couple of years. Even the year before it, 2011; at least personally I think it was very significant. Hopefully soon we'll come out of this transitioning period and people can feel a bit of relief.

This has been unpublished for a while now...but I just got word that a new version of the book is coming out in the next few weeks! This looks like the one, to be released on Dec 24th.

I'm not sure if Kunlun or yigong is a yuan replenishing method...I suspect that it might be due to its self healing effects over a period of time. I want to personally compare those effects that I recall to jiuyangshengong (of Wu-Liu Pai) if I get a chance to learn it. My comment about false paths isn't about xing first schools...not that I'm an authority figure on any of this stuff, so I shouldn't even be saying anything. I only posted because I think it's uncool to sort of attack someone who is saying something different (and potentially valuable) and attempt to drive them away.

I don't know of anyone who is teaching actual methods on this forum...but he pointed out that at least some of his ideas are from Wu-Liu Pai from the Russian branch. So we know where to go, and it's not a secret that no one can learn. It's nice to have someone pointing out the true path versus false paths of neidan...and to do that despite arguments happening is the opposite of shameful.

It's important to have a real teacher...and also to recognize that leading qi around can be harmful. I basically recommend that you don't practice these methods. I used to, and choose not to anymore due to the damage it can do, despite it being a very powerful and cool method...actually I was practicing reverse orbit back then. Regardless...the reverse way is cooling, gives an uplifting and opening feeling, is for spirituality, and drains your energy. The forward way is more heating, more for health and building qi, and doesn't take energy so much but still does a little. I think it drains your yuan qi to be circulating your post-heaven qi with your intention. Something to think about is that the front conception channel's natural flow is upward. So is the governing channel in the back. They both flow up naturally! When you go against the natural flow, it will create counterflow qi there and basically disturb the function of that meridian...huge health problems.

I bet that paying attention to high tides would be like an advanced form of working with the moon phase: http://www.moonconnection.com/tides.phtml

At least personally, I am very much enjoying the presence of opendao...in my opinion, it's rare to see people from schools that make such distinctions in methodology. It's basically in line with various books I've read on neidan from Eva Wong (not saying they're a great source of info). Unfortunately, it might not provide something immediate to practice...but it can help show people what they'll want to be searching for in certain teachers and schools.

Hey Bob, glad you liked the explanation. To be clear, I don't actually fully know the methods...it's an outsider student's point of view of that book only. There are true teachers of Taoist neidan who have specific ways of the "laying the foundations" stage, which I'm not fully aware of. Welcome to the forum!

Yes I agree with much of what you said. No judgment for people who use the ignore function; I was only sharing another consideration about it. One thing a good friend said to me when I wasn't giving him much attention for a while..."it's okay man, do what you need to do!" It was a big teaching for me. If you need to ignore someone, please do what you need to do.

I'm not sure I ever used the ignore function. I did block at least one person's PMs to me, during a time when I was mentally unstable and freaked out...and later unblocked them. The reason for blocking them was not on their end but was totally on mine. Sometimes we need to do what it takes in the moment, to feel peace and stability. I totally see the use of cultivating serenity...but at least personally, to do it at the expense of others is not ideal. To be ignorant of parts of reality, and of other people, is not what I think is fulfilling. The Hua Hu Ching has some basic and clear ideas about the all embracing nature of the Tao, which we are to emulate if we want to progress. To have "aversion" to some things or people is to be attached to other things, and to be closed off...this is not what the spiritual teachings recommend to do. Plus, "do unto others" is not in line with this for me...I wouldn't want my ideas time and energy put into posting to be totally neglected. I'm sure it is by more than a few, which doesn't make me feel good...makes me feel unaccepted and unworthy! Not that it bothers me too much...but in aiming to help others and myself on the spiritual path, there's no way I can ignore anyone or anything. I swore an oath very early on in my life to always be there for whoever needs me. And on one level of meaning, to be enlightened means to have full awareness of everything. Just another perspective on this ignore function.