Aetherous

Tulku, you get crazier by the day. I hope you don't end up hurting anyone. Also, do you have friends that you can hang out with? It can be very helpful to just chill and have some fun with people that you like.

I would say that it amuses me each time a body starts claiming it's not a body, but it doesn't.

This is slightly true, but I don't think it's that simple...not necessarily such a direct cause an effect. If all people on the earth were perfectly behaved, would there not be earthquakes anymore, for instance? No one knows that...it's just a guess based on the idea that bad energy creates bad results. The fact is that imbalanced people walk the earth day in day out, and heaven and earth support them in every way possible. If our annihilation were based solely on our actions, we'd all be long gone by now. There is a lot of freedom here. Also: I look at all of the people in my real life, considering each one. Sure they are not saints...of course they lack awareness in many areas, but they are pretty amazing, in my view. Certainly not power hungry jerks...that type of person is really a minority in the world, I think.

It's not those topics which have pushed any buttons...IMO.

What makes you think you're capable of judging?

Internal versus external considering is interesting...but is this just another transgender/Christian-hating/vicious-dog-breeds-are-horrible thread?

That was the story...which people focus wayyyyyy too much on IMO. The hand posture used is also part of the Shangqing methods...so, no. Not at all. The kunlun method is very different in style and effect from yigong. Yup, same thing sort of. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangqing_School#History On the primordial alchemist website they use the word, "Shang-ching". "Maoshan" is commonly associated with dark types of sorcery...which this path is not.

I absolutely disagree with your opinion, having studied Taoist Yoga and other alchemical texts for over 11 years, and practiced Kunlun Nei Gung for 4-5 years now. It is exactly "Dan Dao" or Taoist neidan. And Kunlun is not a synthesis of many things (that is just bullshit gossip which is typical of this forum)...it's primarily Shangqing. A big problem for someone starting out with Taoist Yoga is finding an effective and safe method for the first chapter. With Kunlun you get that right away, especially in the red phoenix method. I'm focused on what can practically help people here...not what is precisely exactly correct from a scholarly and ineffective point of view. ...But if you want to differentiate Kunlun from a school which teaches the exact methods described in Taoist Yoga...if you can provide a link to it, where interested people can easily learn those methods from an accomplished teacher, which will produce the described results in the student and not just cause them to have to fumble around with words and faulty translations...then I will be in agreement with you and say that Kunlun is not the same as that training. It is just another version of that, which is Taoist neidan.

First of all, Kunlun is not "spontaneous" + red phoenix. It's core is kunlun method + red phoenix...but there are many other practices within the system. For instance, I've learned over 30 methods. And there are more that I don't know... It does include methods of 'hoarding of jing in the lower dan tian', as well as 'plunging spirit into the lower dan tian'...for instance with the red dragon practice, or the one breath, or standing methods, or even during close down from either of the core practices. All three dans are used at all times. There is the creation of a dan which is circulated through the orbits (even if someone were to ONLY practice one breath, this would occur, but there are specific methods for this as well). There is obviously refinement at the higher dans. Not thinking these things are included is due to not having learned, practiced or understood the methods of this system...which is understandable for someone who just reads about it on this forum. I shoudln't speak too much about gold dragon body or the CONCEPT of the egress of the immortal fetus. If you read the last paragraph of the last chapter of Taoist Yoga, you get some idea of the effect of the Kunlun school, which comes primarily from the combination of the two simple core methods. Keep in mind that Taoist Yoga states that a youth could achieve immortality simply by plunging the spirit into the lower dan tian. Many of us turn Taoist neidan into an intellectual and scholarly pursuit, which it is NOT. I wonder what you think the immortal fetus is, in reality? Also, good point that Kunlun sounds like Dzogchen...there is something to that idea! Also, it is good that you pointed out "Wu Liu Pai" is sort of the origin of Taoist Yoga. There may be a way of learning the methods of the book from a teacher of the exact same lineage?

Thank GOD you aren't in charge of anything. Freakin' bodhisattvas.

Hi Scotty. As you are a longtime member of this forum, I am stunned to hear you say this. Help me to understand your statement. Need I mention one of the more popular schools mentioned on this forum? Wang Liping's Dragon Gate Taoism. I thought of WLP, but I said what I did for two reasons. 1) I don't think Dragon Gate resembles the training in the Taoist Yoga book as much as Kunlun Nei Gung does...it is not exactly the same, but resembles and in my opinion is actually better than trying to practice from the poor and potentially dangerous instructions of that book. This is my opinion. I'm not here to appease the PC police. I must be honest, and I must try to help people who are interested in what I consider to be the real path of Taoist alchemy. 2) I don't have much experience of Dragon Gate teachings, only have read "Opening the Dragon Gate" and the recently translated "ling bao tong zhi neng nei gong shu". So due to my relative inexperience with this and other schools that may be out there, I said "that I'm aware of". Not trying to be controversial. I hate that bullshit about 'my school is better than yours'. If someone trains in WLP's school that's awesome. Mo Pai...awesome. Kunlun...awesome. We are all doing great things here. My comment was only about a school that resembles and will bring the same effects as the book Taoist Yoga...to give people a real school and teacher rather than stumbling through the dark based on the contradictory and cryptic writings alone (as I kind of did for many years). Edit: Another book to look into is "Foundations of Internal Alchemy: the Taoist practice of Neidan" translated by Fabrizio Pregadio. It doesn't make things clear, but if you combine that with Taoist Yoga, and with a real school of practices of Taoist alchemy, you will begin to develop a clear picture of what must be included in a school of training to be called "neidan". Anything transformational is technically alchemy, but there's a whole other beast which is Taoist alchemy, which includes specific trainings. For the sake of clarity...for the sake of people interested in the book Taoist Yoga...at least personally I try to keep it clear and differentiate.

What are you cultivating?

Yes, AYP does give bad kundalini advice. Or one could say it doesn't give any real advice at all. The suggestion that spinal breathing will help is one of the most ridiculous ideas, IMO...the opposite of truth. I personally had very ungrounding experiences from AYP and had to stop those practices altogether for a long long time in order to feel normal. I also saw the heavy handed moderation at that forum. On the other hand, quite a few people have been practicing AYP for years and are happy with it.

I recommended Spring Forest Qigong's "small universe" audio if you were wanting a guided practice specifically of MCO. SFQ isn't Taoist alchemy...it is qigong practices. Kunlun Nei Gung is the only Taoist alchemy school (which resembles the training in the Taoist Yoga book) that I'm aware of. Of course, alchemy is transformation, and there are a lot of approaches which are transformational...even if a person just practices breathing, that can be called a form of alchemy.

It's obviously not worse than that.

In that case, you should know that these types of practices can potentially make your condition worse. Watch your symptoms...if you feel drained, then maybe the practice isn't good for you at that time...best to stop! On the other hand, if you notice good results...good! Coincidentally I just picked up Maoshing Ni's acupressure kit yesterday. In that it describes two basic points to massage for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: 1) ST-36 approximately 4 fingerwidths below the kneecap right on the lateral side of the tibia bone. Apply pressure with your thumb or a massage tool for 5 minutes. 2) DU-20 at the very top of the head. Apply pressure with your index finger or massage tool for 2 minutes. You should feel between pressure and pain...breathe evenly during it...for instance inhale for a count of 5 then exhale for a count of 5, or whatever count is most natural for you. You can do this 1-3 times per day.

Hey, I will share some personal opinions as a fellow practitioner. Not a teacher. Just some things for your consideration... In Taoist alchemy they say that you must first cultivate your essential nature, which is like experiencing yourself and all things as being made up of the same void energy, which is the Tao itself, and is also referred to as many things...I think one of the names for this 'void energy' is the golden pill or elixir..."golden" typically means/symbolizes "the one light", as is described in Cleary's Secret of the Golden Flower. It's not necessarily gold colored, but experienced as clear and empty....also experienced as who you are at your very essence...what remains when all else falls away. This stuff is very cryptic, unfortunately. The essential nature which you are supposed to cultivate has its base in the heart. It is connected to the feet and the top of the head, and it is what sees through your eyes. Normal people's spirits are kind of stuck in a forward position all day due to looking out at the world. So the path of cultivating essential nature is where you aren't expending this spirit's energy on the external world...you draw it back within upon itself to maintain your energy...within the center of the head. There are many different methods for this. I prefer red phoenix of Kunlun Nei Gung. Taoist Yoga says to put all of your focus in that one point all day...in my opinion, that is very intense and could cause problems! The other half of the 'cultivating essential nature' equation isn't simply condensing the spirit. It is stilling the spirit...I think Taoist Yoga says, "making the heart dead as ashes" and it instructs you to basically sit in a way of silent meditation. If your heart is stirring and causing the spirit to wander (listening to external sounds, seeing things, thinking of things, monkey mind, etc) you are wasting energy. From what I understand, the energy that's used in the orbit is from the lower dantien. When you start using it is when "golden sparks fly up from behind the navel" or basically when there's an overflowing of qi from the dantien. If someone just focuses in the lower dantien for their only practice, eventually the channels will open up on their own due to this overflowing of qi. Lower dantien work is "cultivating eternal life" and can most effectively take place after the spirit is condensed and stilled. Keep in mind that this type of alchemical path is totally different from a qigong path, which typically focuses only on this lower dantien energy for the purposes of healing or whatever. Typically you are supposed to always use non-aroused energy...sexual feelings cause the generative force to leak and not be used alchemically. The generative force (jing), and also the qi and spirit or shen, are all one energy..."the supreme medicine". They are inseparable...it is who you are in essence. So when the spirit is wandering outside (due to listening to a sound far away for instance), your jing and qi are being drained as well. So it's not just sexuality that causes leakage. At least personally, in my path I am not at all strict about the celibacy stuff. Or about sitting in meditation all day to prevent leakage. As you develop, you will be able to find out what works best for you personally...until something matters for you (like you actually become drained from energy leakage), maybe it doesn't matter for you. The very moment you pay attention to a location on the body, spirit is there, and the qi is flowing there. Try to keep it all even...some people may not feel the sensations of flow as being even, but by making it even and balanced with your mind you are doing it correctly and it will eventually make things work right. The mind and intent affects the energy. I would suggest you don't base your results on your sensations, which are not qi...they are just sensations and can always change. The body as it is, is untransformed...so shaping your mind and energy to that will be ineffective. Practice with the result you want in mind already, then the result comes in the body due to the mind shaping the qi. A simple thing is just to spend one breath at each location along the MCO. That way everything stays balanced throughout the whole pathway. Everyone practices differently based on what their teacher shows them. Some Taoist alchemy books that I've read state that doing high numbers of repetitions is pointless..."empty turning of the waterwheel" which accomplishes nothing. I personally sometimes practice a visualization version where only one breath is an ascent and descent, and can do up to 36 revolutions, since the practice is specific. So it takes like a few minutes. A key to it is building the energy in the dantien before circulating. I would find a teacher rather than playing with this stuff on your own. One option is Spring Forest Qigong's "Small Universe" audio...that is sort of like a teacher. That version involves much faster revolutions than what you're doing. In Taoist Yoga one of the chapters is named something like 'clearing the eight psychic channels'. That could be good for bad circulation. Of course it's better to learn something like that personally from a teacher. Only use what works for you...reject what harms. Also, cultivating essential nature will help in the opening up of the body as well as healing it to an extent. It balances the hormones throughout the whole endocrine system. Getting some exercise is also important to improve circulation of course. It won't hurt to do large heavenly cycle. These are just my ideas, and may be inaccurate or harmful if you use them improperly.

Actually, it is. I will explain below... What the fuck is with the disrespect, joeblast? I almost didn't answer you because of this. Don't you realize I'm already aggravated? Also to answer this stupid question: when you have things to do in life then spend close to all of your free time practicing, this type of thing is really unnecessary extra work. Okay, anyway...here are some reasons why it's too much extra work.... 1) First of all, the pictures that are on the DVDs don't match up with the pictures on ebay. So that part of Trunk's request is too much extra work...I'm not going to scan or take a picture of each DVD (actually I can't, since I don't have them anymore). 2) The "Personal Mandala" dvd that I discussed. On ebay it's listed as "Space Clearing and Personal Mandala". However, if I remember correctly, when I got it a few years ago it was simply listed as "personal mandala DVD". So point #2 is that the names change...that my title was actually correct at one point in time...and it may be correct at a future time. Motivated students will be able to find it no matter what it's called...all it takes is an email to Chris which you have to do anyway to order it. 3) The titles are also rotated out and sometimes removed from sale. Maybe in a few weeks, the personal mandala DVD won't even be listed at all. This type of thing is not my responsibility...take issue with Dragon Gate Sanctuary. If I were running shit, I would list every single title at all times in one place. I have tried to be clear and helpful here...but there's only so much one can do. 4) In the personal mandala example...people who have a desire to find this will easily be able to. There are not multiple DVDs with the title personal mandala. It is clearly in the title, "Space clearing and PERSONAL MANDALA". People who really care about this will email Chris Matsuo and ask him if they are getting the right DVD (they should do this already regardless of my post, since DGS is already as we know a confusing mess). 5) During multiple moves, when my parents were helping me, I think they threw out my DGS dvds. So I don't know the exact title on the DVD itself. Finding that info would be a hell of a lot of extra work for me (unnecessary work). I'd have to email Chris, and I doubt he'd even give the exact title given his laid back attitude about all of this. In fact, the exact titles that are printed on the DVDs aren't even the same titles that are used in ebay listings, for instance. So, I tried my best. And this will be the last time I answer anyone on this topic...I'm done here. I have already helped and owe nothing to anyone on this. Peace. _/\_

That was helpful?

Anyone who is considering helping out in this thread, beware... Due to not posting the EXACT titles of DVDs (there aren't exact titles, the listed names change) and not sharing where the DVD is located exactly (there isn't a specific place, DGS always changes things, rotates and removes DVDs from their listings)...Trunk decided it was appropriate to continually harass me in private messages and act with total disrespect. When I asked for for him to stop, and for an apology, he denied that request and said an apology was not forthcoming. WTF. I hope he doesn't do this for anyone else that just decides they want to help. Sometimes, this fucking forum...

I'm not including the exact names or the pictures...that is a lot of extra work for me. People will be able to recognize what I'm talking about and maybe it will inform their decisions... A friend let me view their "kuji kiri" dvd which is listed on this page. I love their style of doing it, and that's the way I now practice it. LOOOVE. It also includes info on the specific mudras which isn't anywhere else as far as I know. Viewing this inspired me to look into the ninjutsu lineage where this specific kuji-in form may have come from, and now I am a beginner at learning Maui Saito Ninjitsu (I don't know for sure if they actually teach this kuji-in form in that school, haven't asked and of course it's not on the first "Bloodline Ninjitsu" DVD set). Personal Mandala DVD is really interesting, and something I have worked with. A great way of taking control of your life and bringing some order, as well as changing things. Good for getting perspective. Being balanced. This may be my favorite DVD that I've seen by DGS due to its clarity and usefulness. Just my opinion. The "jin shin" mudras DVD. There is slightly more info on this DVD, one extra mudra (which is also included in the DGS kuji kiri dvd), but I also found the same 9 jin-shin mudras in a 14 dollar book. I would personally just get that inexpensive book. The kwan yin qigong DVD. Shares a few similarities to the Kunlun system, but it is apparently from another teacher that Chris Matsuo learned from. It's all in one form, has some extra stuff that is unique, and it does things differently for sure, with IMO a different result from Kunlun. This was part of a 3-in-1 DVD which also included the jin shin mudras DVD from above. There was also a reiki DVD which was mostly about understanding things. It may have been called Hirai family secrets. There wasn't any actual hands on healing to it. For instance, the thing I got most from it was that if you bring snacks into the workplace it will make people more open to you. It was interesting and good but I don't personally recommend spending that amount of money on this. No disrespect intended in sharing my honest opinions...not even trying to be "critical" of the school. I like them. Just trying to help people looking at purchasing the DVDs. _/\_ EDIT: Also for the anal retentive here, I'm not changing my post. Get over it.

......since the words were coined?

When I was in high school, a motivational speaker came and gave us a talk one day. The only one I ever cared for... The jist of what he said was: in this life everyone wants to push you in all directions, they are like waves against you. Be a huge rock and don't be pushed by anyone, no matter who they are. Have your own goals and live your own life...no one else's ideas for your life are relevant in comparison. So in your situation, you are allowing yourself to be pushed by two opposite waves, forgetting that you're a sturdy rock. You are the one that makes your own waves! Of course you don't want to hurt anyone...and I'm sure you won't actually hurt anyone by making whatever the better decision is. There is real hurt, and then there is minor hurt. There are spiritual people in the world, I think the Jains, who refuse to harm even an insect...so they go out of their way to ensure that no bug is harmed...destroying their own enjoyment of life in the process because they can't even walk on the grass without fear of stepping on a worm (or something). There has to be a balance between not harming, and on the other hand, being decisive and living the life that you want. That means, don't be too harmless...for your own sake. Good luck.

Ah good. Thanks for the opportunity, friend. -K-, I'm with you...very uncomfortable being seen as a spiritual person.

I can't say anything about how it's used in the system....in fact maybe that was just for my class? I have no clue. People should ask Max or their facilitator personally about it if they are interested. He didn't say the thing about the right ear being better...that info is from other traditions. It's a deeply affecting practice so maybe best done with a teacher's guidance for the best results with it. There are other things that might help loosen up the neck and shoulders a lot more, and they won't increase the sound. Massage, gentle stretching, strengthening the rhomboid muscles in the back, becalm balls, etc.