Aetherous

See the first post on this thread, which shows an actual LIST of Seth Ananda's insults towards me. It's one thing if someone slips up and says something in the heat of the moment...it's another when someone does what he did. Once again...why is he still not suspended or banned???? Maybe I'll copy and paste that list onto each new page of this thread just to remind us of what someone deserving of suspension looks like!

Same with dantien breathing. Actually the idea of internal breathing or the embryonic state having to do with anapana came from the Taoist and their dantien breathing. Check out Yang Jwing Ming's Embryonic Breathing book. That is not at all the case with simple anapanasati, in my opinion. A big belly doesn't have any purpose...it would be a result of improper practice, not simple awareness within the dantien.

Harmonious Emptiness, Actually if you go back and read the first few pages of that thread, you will see how I was the one that was provoked. People wish to view this in this own skewed way, but what it comes down to is: if a person clearly goes against the forum rules (which are there for a reason) they should be suspended. We all agree to this, and it's enforced for all other people...why not for Sunya and Seth Ananda????

Right. I disagree.

No way, man! My enlightened ass is trying to be done with that here.

Simple Jack, Fair enough! Dantien breathing is a better meditation method because it includes anapanasati within it. You are paying attention to the breath and its quality...which is anapanasati...the only difference is that you're placing awareness within the lower dantien during it. What's interesting is that various Buddhist schools do this as well. This cultivates what you call the gongfu of the body directly. In Taoist alchemy, they say that if a person simply puts their awareness there, with the right conditions they could achieve everything...even without any attention on breathing. Developing the qi of the body naturally develops the mind and breath, so that it's always in a meditative state...not just during practice. Also, since the question was specifically for developing concentration and focus, it makes the method even more worthwhile since that's precisely what you're doing with having awareness in the lower dantien. So yup: because anapanasati is included in dantien breathing, and because dantien breathing has extra effects, it is a better method.

People can read the first few pages of the thread, and see how it went down for themselves. Also, by the way, I've had two Buddhist teachers.

Zerostao, being called "guy" is so bad? and one can call anyones method inferior, correct? Yeah you can say whatever you want here, as long as it's not an insult (or blatantly disrespectful in some way). Saying "whatever, guy" is technically an insult since it's name calling and obviously rude, but I'm not reporting it because it's too weak and only happened a couple of times with him. I was simply pointing out that his post (and others) is where this ridiculousness began. Contrary to what the Buddhists have claimed, I did not "start the fire"...they did. And I stood my ground this entire time. People can go back to the first few pages of that thread and see for themselves.

Now that is a hard thing to moderate.

Also, for clarity, here is what actually started the whole thing: Whatever, guy. Either way it's still an inferior meditation compared to anapana (mindfulness of the breath.) Also In the end you're clinging too much to the body. That was Simple Jack's post to me on the first page. Calling me "guy" and stating one method as inferior to a Buddhist one. So I take it back, after rereading the thread...my responses to him were very well deserved. I was quite patient (even though whether I was or wasn't is irrelevant).

The cause of insults is the individual poster's decision to break the forum rules. It's not against the forum rules to state an opinion which bothers others.

Nothing I've said on this forum is worthy of moderation. Although my post to simple jack was disrespectful, and he didn't deserve that. The mods aren't falling for my facade...my actions are out there unedited and brutally honest. My character can be seen clearly by anyone and interpreted or judged as they see fit. What's happening is that you and Seth have posted personal insults, which is against the forum rules. That's all.

Sunya, It was in the midst of you posting your crap here. The reason why I said it's out of context is because after I said that, I also said my final goodbye to you (regarding our private discussion, as well as public ones too hopefully soon) and said that I wished you the best of luck in your personal development.

I am asking for Sunya to be suspended as well, for his clear insult in this thread: Anyway, thanks Mal and mods for being considerate.

Yup I said that to him, on AOL instant messenger. It's taken out of context...but whatever. I am "who you're dealing with".

Buddhahood is not Buddhist enlightenment. ...that's about as far I'm going to go into it with you.

Also, now you just said it publicly...which is another person breaking the forum rules.

Sunya, About my actions in that thread...nothing I said was against forum rules. I have taken your personal attacks on my character into consideration, and simply disagree regarding their accuracy.

Mal, Well, I obviously think it isn't. If a person CAN break the forum rules when they're supposedly justified, then who is capable of judging when that is? The moderators, who have their own biases and preferences regarding individuals here? Popular opinion? The individual themselves? It'd be easier for you mods to simply operate consistently and impartially. I don't know why you make your job harder than it needs to be. This is a clear case of a time when moderation action should have happened instantly. If you think it's unclear, then simply reread the list of insults above!

About sealing the energy in the lower dantien...if you focus within there, it will cause energy to rise out from it. This is normal and not a problem...it's qi activating and beginning to circulate. Alchemists call it all sorts of things, like yellow sprouts (if I remember correctly) Being around other people will tend to cause the energy to react...so if you can, spend some time away from people for a little while after your session so the energy can assimilate. A couple things that work well for me is putting the hands on the belly, right outside of left. Imagining that your head is inside of the belly area. I've noticed that if you "look down" into the dantien, it's like activating the energy of the upper dantien and causing qi to rise....so imagining the head is in the belly helps the qi not to rise too much. Connecting the attention in the lower dantien with the legs and feet helps it to descend. And focusing on the sensations, instead of locating the awareness within the area. Focusing on the sensations, again, takes the upper dantien energy out of the equation...whereas locating your awareness is using that energy and causing qi to rise. So those are some ideas for you to experiment with.

Okay Sunya, this will make you happy: I have not attained Buddhahood. Now is there anything more for you to discuss AT me? Go for it. Get it over with so we can move on, please!

If it was in a Buddhist subforum, I wouldn't be in there saying anything. If it was in a dedicated Buddhist thread on the general forum, I wouldn't be in there saying anything. From my point of view, in that concentration thread the Buddhists began derailing the discussion, by saying that dantien breathing is not a meditation or not as good as anapana (which isn't true). I stated an opinion regarding Buddhism, and then the Buddhist brigade derailed the topic with me (although I wasn't trying...I find it very annoying when discussions get personal and way off topic). Don't pin the whole thing on me...especially after Seth's insult onslaught, which he clearly should be banned for a long time over. Both of your actions in that thread didn't win many points for the Buddhist brigade. Consider: me saying that isn't the problem. Your actions are. ...Anyway, at first I thought the Buddhist section was a bad idea. Because the posts in the general forum and other places will still have the same Buddhist posters, who feel the need to bring Buddhism into the discussion as if its the final word on the subject. I felt like it wouldn't change anything. But now I see it as a good idea, because it will be a dedicated place for you to go and discuss those things. You will all still be around, I'm sure, and you'll still talk Buddhism in the general forum. I don't have a problem with that. But you will have less of a legitimate excuse in derailing threads and putting Buddhism out there as the final word on all subjects...you will have a place to go and do that without disagreement. So it will probably be good for everyone if you all get what you're asking for. If the posts end up being decent, I might even enjoy lurking there and learning more. I discussed it in an honest manner, by stating the truth: that actual Buddhist enlightenment is a first step in some Taoist alchemy schools. If the whole point of Buddhism is contained within Taoism, and Taoism is serving more than just that purpose, then it is greater Buddhism. It is Buddhism + a lot more...but without the excess garbage, such as attachment to false beliefs and misinterpretations.

Chris, I agree. This is often assumed to be true, but where are all of these high level masters we're talking about? Are we sure they are high level masters? How are we sure of this?

Seth, A complete waste of everyone's time. Yours. Mine. Everyone reading this. God's. That is how the private debate went down from my perspective. Sunya disagrees. In the midst of the debate, I was rude and impatient. It was a very long debate, taking many hours of fairly fast conversation on instant messenger, often going in circles around the same issues. It was heated coming from both sides. For these reasons, I know that if anyone here (especially now) were to view the whole thing they wouldn't be able to judge it clearly, and would probably think it's another case of me being...whatever you think I'm being. The points that were made would be overlooked. Buddhist terminology would be clung to, instead of acceptance of plain truth which only seems to contradict the Buddhist view. So I don't trust a single person here to view the thing with clarity. Why would Sunya lie, and make the first strike, claiming I can't comprehend Buddhism...when we simply disagreed? There's also your answer as to why I said I schooled him. I didn't just start talking about this private debate out of the blue. He came in here and defamed me, and said no one should listen to my opinion. I clarified and said that his view of the private discussions is way off, by saying I 'schooled' him. From my perspective, I did. From his (and yours without seeing it), I didn't...and he did. Whatever. It's just perspectives. I'm over it. By the way, he took great offense to this whole thing and called me a BUNCH of shit...and now we are not friends. And by my own choice resulting from the way he responded to me privately, we won't ever be again. I view this as very unfortunate. So thanks, Seth, for perpetuating the hatred. We could just drop it at any time. Perspectives are never the full picture, especially when it comes to individuals who disagree. I know I played a huge role in Sunya defriending me...but we ALL played a big part in making this mess, and it has been unskillful and shameful for each of us...in my opinion, equally. Oh, people can see me and my supposed flaws quite clearly now, Seth. I simply don't see why going back and forth with you here is worthwhile...that's why I barely take any effort to respond. I am very aware that my lack of a response to you and Sunya makes me appear exactly how you portray me to be. An idiot, a backpeddler, someone who is afraid of being seen in a negative light. All that shit is obvious to those who are incapable of taking the time to see through it, and who want to hold me in that light. It happens regardless, so fuck it....I appear that way and see no need to defend against such stupidity. ...I do see who you are. Someone who thinks they are loyal, yet is violently reactionary. Someone who will bend the truth to fit their fight (an example of this is your list of questions, which don't portray me in an honest light, but are completely slanted towards the point of view you're trying to build of who I supposedly am). So that's what that meant. It was also an attempt at letting you know I lack the patience to continue and am essentially done with any discussion. What is this, then? I don't know...just responding. I guess a temporary boost of patience power. Whatever. Everything I say is suspect...cool. Fine with me. Yeah, I'm enlightened in the Buddhist sense. You aren't? And you call yourself a Buddhist? It's not a big deal. I don't even care if people think nothing of that claim. I obviously don't try to act like an enlightened person! After spending many years on the spiritual path, researching and practicing many traditions, you'd think a person could make some sort of claim. You think it's a lie? I think your attitude is severely lacking personal integrity. Whatever...our perspectives differ and are limited viewpoints of the potential of eachother. You still don't know if they are false...and in my view, if you read the private conversation at this point, you won't be able to tell one way or the other. You've already formed your opinion of me and have proven yourself to be unconsciously violent towards those who you think deserve it. You have shown how you are willing to bend the truth to fit your needs. The events as I see it make my statement plainly true. It's simply a perspective that differs from Sunya....why believe either of us regarding something you know nothing about? And nothing I've said is federally punishable...what a fucking joke. Anyway, we are continually discussing a private conversation which will not be viewed publicly for the reasons already mentioned. So say what you wish about this...about my wish to keep it private...about me...it's all just a gigantic waste of time and like I said, I lack the patience to respond to such petty bullshit. It'd be better to focus on practice, and letting go of whatever this is. I admit that I can seem like a super douche bag or whatever. It's not my wish to make myself appear any certain way to those who wish to perpetuate however I'm appearing. My views remain unchanged regarding everything I've said in this thread. I'm continually over it and willing to stop this inanity at any point. You must learn to deal with my point of view on Buddhism, which simply differs from your own. Buddhist enlightenment is the first step in Taoist alchemy. Taoism is superior to Buddhism. I stand by those statements, having experienced it for myself. I feel no need to justify them or clarify my points to those who won't listen. I'm not defaming Buddhism by saying it. I'm not incapable of understanding Buddhism, or a lower level practitioner or anything, because I hold that point of view. So, peace.