Aetherous

Quotes that I like from Taoist Yoga's first chapter...

At least personally, I don't trust Leveyan Satanists for much of anything.

You could also surrender to yourself fighting for your life and surviving, too.

Probably a form of shamanism, where any mysteries within the natural world are venerated, which could include: animals, death, weather, the movement of the stars and planets, women and the birth process, dreaming and altered states of consciousness, energy and healing, etc. Animal veneration can be seen at Gobleki Tepe and Yonaguni...both of which are said to be over 10 thousand years old, some of the most ancient structures on earth. Otherwise, maybe Sumerian is the oldest, at around 3000 BC...but this belief system was just occuring in one location around the world. There must be a decent book dedicated to this subject somewhere...

I wish that you could feel so free all of the time, InfinityTruth...even in the midst of the challenges of life. Surrender is a really great thing.

I have no idea. "Crushing the void" is from Yang Jwing Ming's book Embryonic Breathing. Here is what it says: Quite vague...and it seems to be written from the perspective of a scholar rather than a practitioner. This is just one model of alchemical development. In Charles Luk's book Taoist Yoga, developing your essential nature is the first chapter, and it quotes masters stating that Taoist alchemy should begin with that for a few different and legitimate reasons. Then I've seen other models which don't talk about this at all...

CowTao, this might help illustrate it more... This was the primary experience, and it would also stream down and extend so that nearly the entire torso was "gone". Anyway, nothing worth attaching to. Just a cool experience.

CowTao, I'm not sure if anything actually dissipates or condenses... But there was a temporary falling away of body sensation...it was as if the "void energy" was like water being poured slowly through the inside of the body, and streaming down...and everywhere the water touched had entirely vanished or merged completely with the surroundings, or the space/air, to the point of not even existing anymore. Something like that. It happened a while back, and I haven't been practicing these methods for the past year or so...so my memory regarding it isn't so clear.

Vmarco, Sounds interesting...I found your other book on amazon.com but not this one. Will you link me up?

CowTao, I know you were asking tulku, but I'll give my answer since I was the one who brought it up in this topic... The "void" that I experienced was like an energy. That's how the body and mind percieved it. It trickled and streamed down through my body, causing it to seem to vanish entirely starting from the top. The result of this vanishing wasn't necessarily a feeling of nothingness. It was more like a feeling of "this is the way things have always been" or the essential nature of all things in existence. Almost more like a feeling of coming home. Peacefulness. As if everything you see is made up of one substance, and this void energy was that substance. This is just my personal experience of it, and it will only truly make sense to someone who has had a similar experience. In Taoist alchemy they say a person must convert jing into qi into shen into void. Then there's the final stage of "crushing the void". My personal opinion is that when a person lives in the world and experiences the true "void that is not void" they will develop concepts regarding it. For instance, I say "it's an energy" which is not entirely true, if it's the essence of all things. So a person at that stage meditates in order to "crush" or destroy the concepts and lack of experience with the void/essential nature. This is just the basic idea. It's not an easy thing to experience, and I can only speak on a very simple level regarding it.

I am. Embryonic breathing is not breathing. No ifs ands buts about it. One of its characteristics is that the person isn't inhaling or exhaling whatsoever. Those who disagree haven't experienced embryonic breathing, period. But I don't need to repeat this anymore...apparently only myself and one other person here on taobums have experienced this. Hopefully others can practice correctly and get it.

Also, what the embryonic breathing state reveals is that mind is breath is energy. So a person could be doing something that has nothing to do with breathing or posture...fully using the mind...and they could be doing qigong. Or even if they were cultivating no-mind, that would still count as qigong for such a person. Because their mind/breath/energy is being affected due to something they are doing. Anyway, this is my unwavering view. Enjoy...or don't.

It's not semantic splitting hairs. The two practices are worlds apart. In one, you're breathing. In the other, you're not. I hold nothing against ChiDragon, or Chinese people who want to help with language issues. That's appreciated. But he is wrong in this thread, for more reasons than what I've personally argued...

Respiration without breathing in and out is a sign of high achievement, and is actually the practice that many Taoist breathing texts were attempting to convey. In fact, they actually put down the breathing process through the nose or mouth...saying it's a way that inferior people breathe. I guess I don't really care whether you recognize this or not, but it's a very unique thing to experience...and it's true. I've personally experienced it in very clear ways, so it's not "silliness". It's something the body is capable of doing. It has profound effects upon the mind, instantly enlightening it. It is extremely good for the body, whereas calmly breathing in and out is only average in its effect. This should motivate you, if you already practice breathing and haven't experienced anything substantial like this, to find a more correct way to practice.

It most certainly doesn't. Breathing and respiration are completely different things. "Breath" and breathing are completely different things. Qigong has to do with breath and respiration...not necessarily breathing.

Problems come from incorrect practice, not from any area of the body in particular.

gj, Well, I think the 3rd chakra is the lower dantien (but the 2nd could be like a lower gateway to it...see The Gold Pavilion by Michael Saso), and and upper dantien is the ajna chakra and not sahasrara. From what I understand tsu chiao is actually a channel which connects the top of the head-the original cavity-the heart-and the soles of the feet, together...similar to the "central channel" concept. Because of this connection, if one of these is energized, the rest are affected...so if you center the spirit in the original cavity, then the heart responds. Something that must be experienced in personal practice to understand. At times I've seen niwan be confused with yintang (spot between the eyebrows)...but it's supposed to be between and behind the eyes as far as I know. What wikipedia says regarding the ajna chakra is similar: By the way, what it says is true...it develops an actual void type of energy that seems to be the essence of all things, if you do it right. It will feel like the head or other parts of the body are completely vanishing and blending with the surroundings/pure being. I only experienced this twice...it's like an art to cultivate it...definitely not just a follow the instructions-get the experience type of thing. Must be skillfully pursued. What's also interesting about the spot at the center of the head, is the sun and moon channels (ida and pingala) meet there. I can't remember, I think they're called something specific in Taoism...or maybe they're not even considered... I personally view acupuncture/chinese medicine as an entirely separate field from Taoist neidan. Although it can be interesting to compare the two and see where they correlate. I've seen some pictures from different schools, where there are 7, or 9 (or more) different locations within the head for the upper dantien. So it depends. Here is one: At least personally, I think the general center of the head is the 'original cavity of spirit'. This draws the attention back from the eyes and forehead (where most people's spirits end up getting stuck due to being so engaged in day to day life, and having eyesight centered perception). It aligns the energies with those of the heart. Anyway, to put it into practice I think it's important to say, don't meditate there for too long! You don't want to stagnate the energy in the brain, by focusing too intensely or for too long of a period in one spot. 10 minutes is good. Basically one needs a teacher. I like the Kunlun Nei-Gung practice of red phoenix. If you're interested in 'fixing spirit in its original cavity' I suggest you learn this. Otherwise I suppose if a person really wants, they could try just feeling the energy go to the center of the head...then once it's centered, exhale and allow the energy to descend into the heart (the spot level with the nipples, in the center of the torso). It helps to center the attention in the heart and allow the qi to fall, or be sucked into where your attention is..."qi follows yi". Allow all of the energy from the head to go into that spot. Breathe in and out in the heart center. Then when it's there and centered, let go of it, and once again center the spirit/energy in the upper dantien. Do this for a little while, repeatedly...no more than 10 minutes to be safe. This version will allow you to not really worry about getting too ungrounded, because you're already bringing it down and blending it into the heart, and not stagnating the attention. When you're used to it, you can inhale at the upper dantien, then exhale and drop it to the middle dantien, and repeat. Like I said, it's an art and requires skill. Through practice a person finds out what subtleties works best, and what doesn't. If it's not working well, don't do it! "It is harmful to pinpoint places in the body, the very idea of which should be relinquished since it hinders the course of the inner fire and of vitality." -Charles Luk After practicing it's very important to ensure all of the extra energy leaves the head, and doesn't return unless its within our control. It can be easy with upper dantien practice for it to become habitual, so it's important to end it very well. Put your hands crossed on your belly below the navel, right hand outside of the left (this position draws the energy down more)...focus on feeling the sensations down in the lower dantien, breathe from the belly to massage the internal stuff, imagine that your entire head has descended into the belly...these can help draw the energy down and normalize. Anyway, I don't think upper dantien work is as harmful as people assume, if you follow instructions similar to these. Lower dantien work can be just as harmful because it's more related to kundalini, and is capable of causing qi deviation, where too much energy is rising in the spine or the back channel, and entering the brain. The energy of the upper centers is much more refined. But I'm sure someone will argue against this...

In order to bypass, you need a teacher who will show you a correct way. Otherwise yes it can be risky.

The devil's advocate actually sounds very similar to the scriptural devil. "In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan (השָׂטָן) means "the adversary"[6] or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil#Judaism

I can see that. If I meditate on MDT, what I notice later on is that my emotions will change. Sometimes in a temporary negative way...as if it brings stuff to the surface to deal with. During the meditation it's probably the easiest place to cultivate positive feelings, like compassion. It's like the center of being...the mind/energy radiates from here (this became obvious for me with awareness-watching-awareness practice). I have always been taught that it's the end point in every energy system.

Yeah, apparently it reflects on everything except your own blindness. Your stance is even more fundamental than that one who made the Falun Dafa thread, except you think you are this shining beacon of light who indiscriminately beams in on people's lack of wisdom. But if you were to observe carefully, every single post you make is just pure monotonous repetition glossed over with subtle hints of self-aggrandizement. Completely agree. I suppose everyone has a right to be completely blind, hypocritical and fundamentalist...and not even make a slight attempt to see their faults when pointed out to them... Despite this, there are still things we can learn from eachother. If we ignore all of the extra bullshit.

Seems to me that activation of the upper dantien (pineal, pituitary, etc) leads to a direct experience of the heart mind. In the book Taoist Yoga this is the first practice, called 'fixing spirit in its original cavity', which is said to reveal your essential nature. The function of the middle dantien or heart chakra is more elusive to me, personally.

Specific to the practice of tummo.

Boom. Steve dropped the bomb on the whole thing! So true.