Aetherous

I'm still not satisfied. I'd like to see this redone by someone using photoshop. There are things which seem hard to do. For instance, look in the first picture. Kan appears to be fading out in different areas, but the chair behind him isn't at all...it's solid. How could that effect be achieved? I'm not asking for someone to make up an answer...I'm really asking something challenging: emulate the photos accurately and share it here! Until then, I remain a skeptic.

I think the time to give people spiritual practices is the time when they need to be reminded of what's important in life. If you actually look into the world, a lot of things are really messed up. It's been this way for a while. I'm sure it will stay this way... ...but the important thing is that there are people in the world who at least have a vague sense that there's something more to life than our momentary desires. They change everything. So the time is now to give spiritual practice, and it has been now for a long time. Forever maybe. The human condition.

I'm not so sure about that. I could only admit that if someone took their own photos and achieved a very similar effect.

Agreed.

Right. Continuing on your path is all that gets you there (I was going to say practice, but it's not as simple as doing a practice, it's a life change). Not peer reviewed studies, or anyone else's stories of proving it for themselves. Me too. Keep it up. No, don't believe. Just practice (continue your path). Have your own experiences, not the experiences of others. There are no real teachers out there. Which is why every teacher fails. There are just practices, and your personal experience. You have your experience, so just keep at it. Part of your path is questioning this. Watch...years later it will have unfolded into awe, instead of disbelief. Keep questioning. No matter what people call you.

This way of arguing (making up a completely fake example) doesn't help you experience anything. It's just a waste of my time and your own. I'm not charging you anything, or trying to get you to follow me in any way...I am here with you and your negativity, spending my own time and sharing my own personal experience. Sharing possible reasons with you, as to why these things work the way they do, with my complete honesty. Why? Because you're a fellow bum. So chill out. I think progress comes from not falling into the trap of certainty, as many wannabe skeptics do. Very few things are absolutely certain in this world.

Then why would anyone verify it for you, if you'd quit caring then? You should remain dissatisfied until you actually know it to be true, not just taking someone's "qualified" word for it! That was my point. No I shouldn't, because as I've been saying, I can't. All I can say is: stay open to the possibility, or not. Doesn't matter. But regardless, the possibility exists! Deal with it!

Yes, I'm aware of that, being a senior in college... But why does something have to be peer reviewed to be accepted by you, personally? That was what I was talking about. I was saying, no matter how many studies are done, where will you find your satisfaction? I don't believe most of the literature out there on anything, even if it's peer reviewed! I have.

Yeah we should be a little more open minded with our unrealized views of realization.

Alright I'll respond, Sloppy. Thanks for bringing the questions out in me...at this point in my life I simply don't care about a lot of things anymore, so this is good... 4 years isn't long. And your progress also depends on: who you are, what you practice, how you practice it, how you engage your path, etc. So I guess in another sense, 4 years could be more than enough time if it's...destined...? It's like that saying...."How long to master the practice?" 10 years. "What if I practice twice as hard?" 20 years... Um, I'm telling you that I'm a person who has experienced some of those things. Seth Ananda is another who wrote about his strange experiences in the past. More about healing others - Ya Mu gives case studies on the forum of how he's actually healed people in his clinic. A scientific study or whatever, like you're demanding, isn't any better proof than anything else. Once they've proved it was real, could you then have the motivation and drive to engage your path so hard and deep that you can't help but surrender? Or would it just be good enough for you that it's real, then you can go do something else? Yeah, that kind of pisses me off, too. There are real problems...it'd be nice if we really had the power to change what we don't like.

I don't see how... I can try to help with my medical skills, but I can't with my energy healing (in)abilities. So that is being responsible. Maybe I missed the point. My brain doesn't work like it used to.

That's because you have the answers. No one else. If a scientist somehow proves that someone can see the future, I will simply doubt the scientist. I will want a second study done. But when I personally see the future time after time, it becomes harder to doubt. Not just using that as an random example. It has actually happened in my life numerous times. Which is why I debate from this side! However, I do think most of Sloppy's points are great...especially in regards to helping others. Wouldn't that be nice? But that's not always in accord with the great mystery, apparently.

Good answer. I wrote a reply but the fact is that there's so much more for me to experience, that I just shouldn't speak.

Why do we have to study someone scientifically in order to know this? Aren't these things self-evident...just from doing the practices on your own? You are someone REAL.

The bolded part is where I disagree. I can give you reasons/excuses as to why it's not easy, such as "energy has its own intelligence and decides not to work at those times" etc...but it's not like I actually know. It's just a guess. But yeah...it generally doesn't work for me to reproduce strange results. They spontaneously happen to me (in the verifiable external world) without any of my own control. So something significantly weird will happen, other people will notice how weird it is, and it will coincide with me practicing something...yet I can't replicate it or actually prove to them (or myself) that it was due to the practice or my path. So, I can either choose to believe for myself that it was the practice, or just deny it. But either way, it doesn't matter! It especially doesn't matter if other people think weird shit is happening as a result of my own doing. Claiming that all the time just makes a person seem crazy. Playing the role of a person with supernatural powers isn't enjoyable, even if you can prove it! It's a much better calling (at least for myself) to just help people become stronger in themselves, and have a heart. That's all I care about. To see a person change in that way is a greater miracle than bringing storms, making people have spontaneous movements, disappearing, knowing the future or other's thoughts, etc. It's even better than experiencing enlightenment, in my opinion. Well energy work in general is actually shown to be helpful with healing. Mayo clinic is involved with Chunyi Lin's stuff. Ya Mu shares some of his case studies here on the forum. Relaxation therapies are well accepted in Western medicine. Massage is accepted. I think healing touch (like reiki?) is done by some nurses. The difference is that most medical treatments are specific and targeted. If someone has back pain, you treat it with pain killers. With energy work, the results are generally slow and holistic (unless you have specific methods for healing). But at the same time, the results are real! This is just my limited experience. I don't usually try healing. Why not take it as truth? But the point wasn't that holding the ball will do that for everyone. It was that someone came to Kan at the right time and taught him what he needed.

Apepch7, I truly don't believe either way. My bias is towards them being fake. I want them to be fake! Yet, if I were to believe they were fake without actually knowing, I'd be doing myself a disservice. I'm not the one running the show. I've actually decided to not be a facilitator anymore, in order to fully be myself. I don't fit into the mold. Disappearing, etc, is not in my experience...so how can I facilitate it? My view is that everyone does what they decide to do regardless of my opinions. So I'm going to do that as well, and let no one's choices and actions (not Max's, not anyone's) affect my life. So yeah, I'm not the one to ask about anything regarding Kunlun really. I just practice it.

I don't know what you mean. I experience weird shit every day. It's a normal part of the spiritual path (not just Kunlun), for those who actually practice. It'd be impossible for me to prove this kind of stuff to anyone, and when I've tried in the past (to friends) it didn't work. I don't care if you don't believe my reasons. They are questionable. As is my assertion that weird shit (whatever that entails) happens. Oh well. They are all practicing the methods, and healing themselves. But I also think that there are challenging or even impossible problems to self heal. For instance, if a vertebrae is completely messed up. Or if a person is dying within like 10 minutes. It's hard to say how a person will react to a self healing practice. But about the holding the ball story...I think the moral was more about personal destiny than about the efficacy of the posture. If someone else holds that posture, will they heal in the same way? Who knows. If the story is true, then it just means that Kan needed to do that posture at the time. Someone was clairvoyant enough to see that. So pay attention to what you need to do at this time for your own progress...I think that was the actual point.

Obviously potheads aren't clairvoyant, experiencing enlightenment, seeming to disappear, or having healing energy, like Kunluners are. So, shitty argument. I'd also like to heal people too. I'm on a good path for developing this ability, eventually. I've helped some friends with minor problems, but not to the extent where I can walk into the ER and confidently save lives with my energy.

Good work. I haven't disappeared. But yeah, weird shit happens. I don't think that this shit can be proven scientifically...the furthest we could get in testing is just saying, "oh yeah, this person is a little different." But aren't we all? I agree with Lucky's point that if you want to experience the weird shit, do the practices. That's the closest you can get to the weirdness of the shit.

Lucky, I agree with you completely, yet see nothing wrong with people questioning these photos. I don't think it goes against Kunlun or Max. Knowing him the little bit that I do, even if these photos were genuine, I think he'd completely understand the disbelief. I believe it's the Kunlun way to seek the truth, even (especially?) if that means parting ways with the status quo of the community. "Speak your truth"

Prove it!

Another thing: what if energy has intelligence, and siddhis don't work when your energy is saying "no" for whatever reason? This may read like an excuse, but I've found it to be true. Miraculous events only tend to happen sometimes...not always when we choose.

Or they kill you, because the real thing would be too hard for many to wrap their minds around. "He's the antichrist!" You never know.

I think he saw an internal Mufasa in the form of himself that was externalized and not in the form of himself.

If I claim something to be fake without investigating it first, then I had horrible teachers.