Aetherous

I only know a little...Saito martial arts seemed to have integrated the kuji-in mudras with moving forms (or else had forms that represented each mudra). Here's a video of someone from Dragon Gate Sanctuary out of Hawaii doing a version of one of those forms: I also saw the Dragon Gate Sanctuary video for kuji-in, and they do the mudras as a seated series of breath work and arm movements. It's pretty interesting. I think that may have been from the Saitos, but could be mistaken. I'm not sure if Dragon Gate Sanctuary is still teaching Saito arts. Maui Saito still is, in Scottsdale, AZ...although I'm not sure how much of the forms and kuji that he teaches, if any at all.

No, you aren't...and especially not by me. About the herb recommendation...some acupuncturists use them and some don't. My recommendations were herb specific, so I wanted to be sure you're seeing a practitioner who can accommodate that. That's all that was about. Suggesting a short walk if up at night is just something I've noticed can help make me tired again...but if it doesn't work for you, then don't do it. I also suggested 8 brocades qigong if walking isn't good...just something to release some energy, so that the body can sleep again. It is a very intense experience. When I went through it, it felt like literal hell on earth. Everything was so weird. But it's just a condition of the mind. Reality exists beyond our mind. This is an aspect I wanted to mention before: we can always cope with what's going on in the moment by paying attention to some mundane thing. In every moment there is something we can put our attention on. Let's say you're at a restaurant and things are seeming weird. Just pay attention to reality...there is some silverware in front of you, maybe a plate and a glass to drink out of. Those things are real, and are good to pay attention to. The more you just pay attention to those real things, the less you're paying attention to the mind. It's grounding. Feeling like you're being punished, noticing patterns, etc...that's all just mind delusion stuff. It creates a story that perpetuates itself. But that's not real...you can always just take a break from it, and live in reality. Something I liked to do when in the healing phase, was to open the windows to let a little breeze in, let the curtains blow, have a very lightly steeped cup of tea...and just notice those things until the tea was fully drank. It can be a very pleasant experience, and such things give us a break from the stress. I think it's good to cultivate those things in our lives as much as we can. What brings peace, comfort, and enjoyment? What do you like? Another thing I noticed was when I'd go outside, feeling the breeze on my skin was kind of a blissful thing. These days, I notice if my sheets are freshly washed, I really enjoy using them that night...it's so much more cozy. Those are just examples of what you can notice and then cultivate more of in your life...whatever helps. How long will it take to resolve? I'm not sure. I think you've already had some good results, with the meditation helping and sometimes the delusions or feelings seeming to go away temporarily. To me that's a sign that it will resolve. But you have to keep your wits about you, and remember not to buy into the delusions. The easiest way is to just not believe any of the stories of the mind, and deal only with real things. Another one of those stories is feeling like you're being punished. If that's the story of your life and current experience, then you may start looking for proof of that happening...and you'll probably find it, attributing every bad thing to the veracity of that story. It's better to just drop such things, and live in reality. I think once things calm down, that will come back. Being in a very stressed out state of mind puts us into more of a survival mode, with a fight or flight reaction of the nervous system...so in that kind of state, we're not really in touch with our passions. Once things are calming down, then you can relax and all that kind of stuff will come back to you. If there's pressure to figure it out RIGHT NOW, maybe it's good to realize that now is actually not the time to figure it out...now is the time to heal the mind, and get some rest and relaxation. That's just what I think...I'm not a mental health expert. Also, I'm sure you still have preferences for one thing over another...maybe you would think it's really gross to eat worms, but a cake wouldn't be so bad (as an example). Something that helped me figure it out was to get a catalog that had a lot of products in it, and flip through it seeing what seemed cool to me. Do some shopping and see what you like...that can help you get interested in things again. It's okay...I just recommend to reread my posts on here and do the simple things. I suspect this post might help you out a lot, too...to realize that stories of the mind and real world objects are two separate things to pay attention to, and one of them can heal the mind, can be a pretty big help.

Important that they use herbal medicine, too. If not, check out one that does. I think they're unnatural, which brings an unnatural response in the body. People can get dependent on them, and maybe the pills don't work after a while...so then sleep gets truly screwed up, because you've become dependent on them to get any sleep, but now they don't really do the trick. If you increase the dose, there's a risk of the medications stopping the breath/dying. Doctors tend to say not to use them for more than a week. Just the attention training meditation. It takes time. If breathing practice doesn't worsen things, then taking breaths in and out gently so that it produces a slight feeling of elation, is good. That unwinds stress. When you wake up in the middle of the night, try going for a 10-20 min walk...provided that it doesn't worsen the mental state. That can help release the extra energy from stress, and you might find that you can pass out when you get back. If walking isn't doable, then maybe try 8 brocades qigong.

His face was interesting!

Ge Hong's Baopuzi was in the 4th century. Shinobi were in 12th - 17th centuries...I don't know the history of them using kuji-in, maybe it was during this time. I would assume they used it because it's meant to be protective. That's a good question...I don't know who combined the prayer with the mudras. The hand contains all 5 elements, and each arm is like yin and yang...or in other words, the universe/reality is in our hands. To alter the hands alters the universe, inside and outside, or alters reality. My personal experience was that the mudras are powerful, and the syllables weren't really, in and of themselves...but their association with the mudras perhaps gave them power. Another good question. I don't really know that much, and simply came to some conclusions after reading the Wikipedia article. Something interesting: I met a Japanese woman who I once saw perform the 9 cuts of kuji-kiri. She claimed it was a Japanese cultural thing for protection...although I'm not sure it's all that common.

The original practice was Chinese and Daoist (in Ge Hong's Baopuzi), and was simply a protection prayer...it wasn't like seed syllables that had individual mystical effects due to their sounds, as it's used today. It was basically like us saying today, "Heaven protect me"...that's it. More of an intention thing than a sound vibration thing. There were no mudras. Later on, someone took mudras that may have originated in India or Buddhism, and combined it with the 9 syllables of this Daoist protection prayer. Maybe they made that combination due to the similarity of the deities involved. They may have altered the mudras from their source prior to that combination, or maybe others altered them after that...definitely today there are many variations.

I've personally noticed that sometimes the brightest most youthful eyes can be hiding a very immature person behind them...someone who is actually dangerous to put your trust in. However, sometimes an ugly face full of "scars" contains a heart of endless compassion and consideration. This is because the way of virtue and goodness is hard, but the way of self indulgence is easy and not taxing. I think it's true that the face is a reflection of the heart...although sometimes what appears "beautiful" to us isn't something good, and what appears ugly is something very underrated. For instance, it's considered that a receding hairline is ugly...but it's simultaneously a symbol of high intelligence.

http://www.nri.cam.ac.uk/yinshu.pdf some qigong from 186 BCE, not as old as Yu, but pretty dang old. https://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Handbook-Chinese-Qigong-Ancient/dp/1848191979/ this book contains some later qigong stuff. It's not as academic, so perhaps sometimes less accurate info, but it's a decent first overview of some things. https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Medical-Qigong-Tianjun-Liu/dp/1848190964/ this has some historical snippets in the back of the book.

That sounds like a stress type of insomnia, which will go away over time, the more that the stress unwinds. A Chinese Medicine practitioner could maybe help out here. Tell them what this type of insomnia is like, and that you heard about "Gallbladder deficiency" and want to try "wen dan tang" or "an shen ding zhi wan" if they think it's appropriate. It's just coincidence. Most people come across oranges or something to have to do with the orange color, etc. Same with plants. Same with mountains. Everyone is aware of these things in life. The things that you talk about bleeding into your life is just you being more aware. We all share common experiences in life, so it's not extraordinary if she talks about an orange, and then you see someone eating one (or something). Oranges are in every grocery store. I understand needing to take a break from people who are making this state of mind worse. You got to do what you got to do! Don't feel bad. If they're your friend, they want you to do what it takes to get well. Just try to think that people share common experiences. Or just avoid environments that worsen delusional perception.

Not a problem, I understand how stressful that state of mind can be. Ah I see, the measures I suggested were especially for the kind of insomnia where it takes a long time to fall asleep (which deals a lot with melatonin production). Good if you don't have that problem at all. Especially good if you go to bed earlier in the evening, like 9-10 pm. That's the best time to get sleep in terms of health, and if you end up waking up in the middle of the night after that, I think it's 1000x better than if you had gone to bed at 1 am then woke up at night. When you wake up at 1-2 am, are you wide awake and unable to pass out again for a long time...or you just wake up and notice nightsweats, and go right back to sleep? Those are two different types of insomnia. How many times do you wake up? If just one or two times, and you're able to pass out again fairly easily, I wouldn't worry too much about it...it's not ideal, but it's pretty common for people to wake up sometimes. I think after extreme stress (like this state of mind can cause) the sleep will be altered for a while, but will gradually improve. For instance, a year from now this might not even be a problem anymore. Yes, that delusion can be really intense to experience, and hard to shake. It's very important to see through it...for instance, if you could manifest things, then try to manifest 1 million dollars in your living room. Why wouldn't it work? Thinking about that is one way to realize that the perception is delusional. I personally had horrible experiences believing that I was suddenly capable of creating reality with my mind...a lot of the time it didn't work at all, and just created problems. Sometimes there are also just coincidences. Let's say you're thinking about an orange, and then suddenly someone starts talking about the color orange. Then you see an orange bumper stickers. Oh my god, I just manifested orange... Not really! What happened was that your mind became aware of something, and then started to notice things that corresponded to what you were aware of. It's like the mind got kind of stuck in one mode, and then searched for it in the world, then found it. "Seek and you will find". Some forms of magic rely on this aspect of the mind, where it queues into things easily that you're trying to "manifest". For instance, after I was totally mentally well, I read about this technique of magical manifesting. You visualize what you want...for instance, I wanted to get a lean healthy looking body, so I pictured what I would look like with the ideal body. Guess what happened next...right away, I see a bunch of lean people jogging down the street, on the internet I saw a bunch of ads geared toward how to get a lean body, etc. From a rational perspective, I don't think the mind actually created those people jogging, or those ads. Those things already existed, and my mind was simply more aware of "lean/healthy body", then noticed more of that around me. I hope that explanation makes sense. From the magical perspective, becoming aware of what we desire outside of us is the first step...but the next step is to cement our desires into becoming reality by really making sure it happens. So for instance, I suddenly become aware of a bunch of ways to become lean and healthy looking, and see people around me doing what it takes. The magical next step is to also do what it takes...go for a jog. Or let's say I wanted tons of money. My mind would suddenly pick up on all things money related...but the million dollars isn't sitting in my living room yet...the next step to make it into a reality is to figure out the ways that people make that money, and do it. So real magic is very practical, and the mystical aspect is just the fact that our mind notices more of what we're contemplating...NOT that it's creating those things. Just my opinion on that matter. The experience of the mind spontaneously manifesting things can be an incredibly jarring experience...it can give you the worst form of PTSD if you really believe that you're doing it. And to be clear, I understand that it can seem to happen without trying to do it...not that it's always something you intentionally try to manifest. If you realize that it's just the mind picking up on things, and if you choose to let go and not believe in delusions, things will improve and normalize over time. It will help calm you down to realize this. It's all up to you and your psychiatrist what you choose to do. If it is really bad, I hope you do what it takes to be well! But I also think the meditation and lifestyle tips will continue to help, no matter what you choose. ... A note on worrying about having health (mental or physical) problems... Worry, fear, panic, stress, despair...all of these things aren't helpful toward regaining normalcy. They're all erratic feelings. Of course, they're to be expected when things aren't going right. If you suddenly feel like you're manifesting nearly every thought you have, and that it's making a living hell for you, then some panic is to be expected. Or whatever other emotion. But try to spend some time not feeling that emotion. The best time is with the meditation...because that will really let the mind loosen up and release. When you do that, that's your normal state. The worry or fear is just erratic energy that's making things seem worse than they are. In other words, that stuff is mental. For instance, worrying about not being able to sleep fully throughout the night: you can either spend your day worrying about it and cultivating erratic energy, or you can forget about it and go about your day, and end up cultivating some peaceful energy. Like I said, it's normal to feel these things when there are alarming health symptoms. Not saying to stop having feelings, or that they aren't legitimate concerns. But I am saying to spend more time cultivating the opposite. Spend time feeling peaceful, stress and worry free, being in good mental and physical health so that there's nothing to fear. If you can only spend time feeling stuff like that for a moment, then that's better than nothing...and it will be a seed that's planted, which will grow into a lot of harmony and normalcy later on. Hope this all makes sense.

Perhaps...they're a stimulant, and your nervous system doesn't need to be more stimulated. But maybe it would be more stressful to quit, in which case it'd be better to just continue smoking. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I think you can get through this whether you smoke or don't. For health long term, it's best to quit smoking...maybe once the mind is totally normal, then work on the next step of quitting. Or maybe quit now and see if it helps. It's all up to you. In that case, if walking is making it worse, best to not walk. Maybe going to a gym and doing resistance training wouldn't have that effect? Whatever works. If it doesn't work, don't do it. I personally experienced that walking would make energy go to the head, but lifting weights was better for me...so maybe you'll experience the same? Try to get as much things in your life that are calming and normalizing as possible, and take out the things that cause energy rising to the head/stress/delusional thinking. I think you will get better if you do that. It's promising to hear of some improvements. Just continue with the meditation, and in time you'll improve. Definitely try to get the sleep resolved, in as natural of a way as possible (not taking ambien or anything). I posted some tips before for doing that...try to include every detail that was recommended, if you haven't already. If results could be better, or if they end up worsening, then maybe you want to be seeing a psychiatrist at the same time as doing the lifestyle and meditation advice (although, sounds like you are already, having taken some medications). Best of luck!

Good point. Perhaps in doing that, our perception is traveling faster than the light from those stars?

It's not that light moves fast, it's just that we move so slow in comparison that it seems to move fast. In fact, light is actually pretty slow if you think about how long it takes for it to travel across the universe, in comparison to instant travel.

I think a big aspect of this is that when your mind is kind of open, and you are becoming aware of all sorts of random stuff around you, it only makes sense that you'll become more aware of the random noises that happen. Pretty much any structure is going to have walls that make sounds for one reason or another. This is the same as what you described in the other thread: I consider it to be a form of "hypervigilance", or the mind being too alert. It happens due to stress. Another aspect is...yes there might be an aspect of your energy body affecting your environment. But it's not anything special...every person has the same thing happening all of the time, they just might not notice it. If they do, then ask yourself: so what? The walls make a noise due to the magnetism of human beings...so what? Something I think is that paying attention to this idea, and trying to discover more about it, can lead down the path toward full blown delusions. Better to not start thinking about unique powers and abilities that you have, etc. So I advise you to just chalk it up to being too alert to random stuff in your surroundings, due to stress. That's really the primary issue here.

By the way, I should have the disclaimer that what I say isn't medical or psychological advice. I simply think it will work based on my experience, but your experience will determine what works and doesn't.

Yes, I'm sure it isn't helping. The brain needs rest. Yes, a big aspect of what started that state of being for me was not getting enough sleep. It's very essential for you to get it. When I was able to finally rest for a long period, that's when I slowly got better. It's good to get enough exercise in the day so that the body is tired when night comes. Just walking around is enough. Getting good nutrition throughout the day will help a little bit. Then the biggest thing...when it gets dark out, wind down with the sun. Turn the lights down, maybe even have candlelight...don't have screens or tvs, and if you do, get some blue light blocking glasses or something. When it gets late enough to sleep, it's good to have the room pitch black...zero light entering from outside, zero electronic lights, etc. It's good to have the room cool, so that it's uncomfortable to lay there without the blanket but feels cozy with the blanket over you. And also have a fan on, so that the white noise from the fan will let the mind rest. All of these details are really important. If you lay there for a couple of hours and can't sleep, then have candlelight and read a fiction novel...something where it's a story that you can get really lost in. That will help get you into the relaxed and dreaming state, so you'll naturally want to sleep. When you feel the tiredness roll over you, let it and go to bed right then. Yes, it's like zero boundaries in that state of being. Simply doing the meditation every day is the strongest thing that will help. Doing the rest of the lifestyle stuff will help support the process of the brain healing itself. It's best to walk in nature. Ignore people. Pay attention to simple things in nature, like the feel of the breeze on your skin, the color of the leaves, birds chirping in the distance, etc. If something really does increase delusions, then it's best to not do it, even if people say it's good for you. I'll give an example: psychologists would say that having close ties to your circles of family and friends is good for mental health...but during this state of being, my mind would misinterpret what my family and friends would say, to the point of it being severely alarming. It was actually better for me to just watch Psych and rest, and not get caught up in the drama of those close to me. So the point is: do what works, and if it doesn't work, there might be a reason. You'll get better over time and won't have problems with stuff. Yep, it's very effective! I overcame everything. It was literally like crawling out of hell (that's how bad my experience was of this) and then getting "back on the horse" to become successful in life again. After the experience, I went back to earn my bachelor's degree...then went on to grad school and am less than 2 months from graduation. I have zero problems of this sort these days. It really is as simple as letting the mind rest, so the brain can repair itself. All of these types of problems will go away with enough of that.

I have experienced this exact thing...it was so intense that I actually became delusional, and wound up in a couple psych wards for a few days at a time back in 2011. You seem to be doing a little better in comparison, and asking for help is a good thing. Luckily, I know the way to solve this problem! What really helped me get past this was Dr. Amit Sood's "Attention Interpretation Therapy"...specifically, the attention training aspect of it. I'll explain how to do it in this post, but will give some additional info, too... So...the Buddhists have a practice that's basically the same called shamatha, or calm abiding meditation. They would say to use either a "pure" or "impure" "external support". An external support means something that you pay attention to outside of yourself, like a picture for instance...that's in contrast to paying attention to something inside of yourself. "Pure" means a symbol of enlightenment, such as an image of a bodhisattva, and "impure" means anything else, such as an image of a tree. So for attention training, you'll want to use an "impure external support". You basically just want any object to turn your attention toward. I prefer to just call it the "object of meditation". It sounds less judgmental, and in actuality it works better. As a side note, I think any object that trains the attention is "pure" automatically. What Dr. Sood points out in his books is that it's easy for the mind to get distracted when it's only paying attention to one thing...so he recommends to look for "novelty" in the object of meditation. For instance, you can notice one thing that's new which you didn't see in it before. Because that's the case, I liked to use detailed objects...like a bush where there are many different leaves blowing in the breeze, or like a single leaf from a tree held up close, or an orange, or a picture of a mountain range with a lot of details you can focus on. So for the meditation, you spend 5-10 minutes gazing gently at the object of meditation, noticing new things about it. The point is not to go crazy trying to find new aspects of it to look at...the point is simply that your attention is being directed toward the object. It's simply training the attention to go where you tell it to. In training the attention, the higher brain centers are activated and as a result the mind basically self heals. Currently, the mind is a little bit fractured in that it's not filtering out useless information, like random people's conversations, or the energies around advertisements or social media. Your mind is queuing into things that it doesn't really need to, and perhaps it will even start doing what mine did, which was attempt to create meaning from the various "synchronicities" (aka, coincidences) that can happen...connecting the dots where there is in fact zero actual connection. When it does that, I call it "magical thinking" and it's something which ends up being diagnosed as "delusion". Besides meditation, a big part of healing the mind is to recognize any delusions and forget about them. Such storylines can keep one wrapped up in an erratic state of being, which prolongs the healing of the mind. Best to have no mind, then the brain has a chance to heal itself...versus the mind being wrapped up in any kind of drama or intense emotional experience. So what we have now: meditate as described above for 5-10 minutes at a time (could be twice a day, could be more...with this type of meditation, it's not bad to do more). Secondly, try to recognize and forget about any delusions. Next, you should take care of your lifestyle... The body and mind have needs in order to self heal. They need to sleep at night, and they need to have nutrition. Sleeping at night should start before midnight, and last for 8 hours. Nutrition should be 3 meals a day, breakfast taking place within the first hour of waking up...and each meal should have protein. Meat is good but not in excess. Skipping meals or having ones without protein is a sure fire way to have the body and mind start malfunctioning. Same with going to bed way past midnight, like let's say at 3 am...if you do that you're going to be lacking in some important foundations of health the following day. For healing the mind, the system needs to be working optimally! There should also be some exercise and enjoyment...like the equivalent of 45 minutes to an hour of walking outdoors in a day. Something that is kind of strange which helped me during the roughest time was watching the tv show Psych...it worked because it was lighthearted and made me laugh sometimes, and it wasn't something that my mind tried to read too much into. I could also use it as a time to pay attention to novelty, basically meditating while just relaxing watching tv. Rest and relaxation are as important, if not more so, than getting adequate movement. So yeah, those are the keys to healing the mind, in order of importance: The right kind of meditation. Dropping delusions and having "no mind". Good sleep. Proper nutrition. Rest and relaxation. Adequate movement. Oh yeah, and a final note about meditation... Focusing is not the goal for training the attention. We don't want to cultivate "hypervigilance". The goal is to release the mind by bringing attention back to the object of meditation. It's not to become more intense in our control, but actually to become more freeflowing in our demeanor...while also having the filter which naturally blocks out information that isn't relevant. The meditation works, and doesn't require anything else other than paying attention to the object of meditation...the results will come naturally and don't require any effort other than in doing that. Best of luck and please report back if the problem resolves.

Really appreciate you...that dao wiki is great, never looked at it until now. About yellow dragon versus gold dragon...two different words, huang 黄 vs jin 金. But maybe Max's phrase does refer back to the yellow dragon...I have no clue.

What's your source for this? I have no idea about the historical use of the terminology.

I think it's hard to sum up what Kunlun is by only saying "water method", because water can mean so many things, and I think Max only means it in certain ways. One way is that it has a tendency to release the mind, so "water" in that case implies effortlessness...versus fire practices where you try and do and kind of mechanically force things. It could also imply a descent of light from above...versus trying to raise energy upward. It could also be that one feels more magnetic than electric, and that can correspond more to "water" which is magnetic in principle. One example of how I don't think it could best be called "water" is the fact that it warms up your body...to me "water path" seems more cooling. But as I understand, the warming is just clearing in the nadis...so perhaps it ultimately is cooling to the system after that clears. Anyway, I also heard Max say that kundalini awakens naturally with Kunlun, at a certain point or at certain times a little more. I personally had what I thought were experiences of kundalini prior to starting Kunlun, and I did notice that the same thing occurred sometimes with the practice. But I think the main difference is that Kunlun is a posture which causes an effortless effect, and other methods require efforts and don't cause that kind of mind releasing/effortlessness. You might not want to hear this, but spontaneous qigong is often a cause of qi deviation...just think about it - what is natural about a body that flails around sometimes slightly without your control? Qi is unrefined if it's causing movements to the physical body...why isn't the qi flowing smoothly through the channels? Why is the mind needing to move the body? Can't the mind relax? As such, from what I understood in the Kunlun system, spontaneous movements are a sign of purification and are not to be sought. The practice of the Kunlun method is not spontaneous qigong...it's a posture that starts an effect (and the effect is not "spontaneous movements"). This is my understanding of it...seek Max for individual instruction. It's very important to listen to advice of the teachers whose methods you practice. It's very easy to mess oneself up otherwise. I messed myself practicing this stuff, mixing things and doing them at the wrong time. I actually wound up in the mental ward of a hospital. Don't be like me! So that being said, I wouldn't mix it with anything, at least not on the same day. I personally moved on to a type of fire path, which was more aligned with my individual needs, and rarely ever practice Kunlun now as a result. I do miss the system. If I do them separated by half a day (morning and evening different systems), I can tell that it causes a little bit of a problem, and really do better only practicing one of the systems on a day. Powerful methods produce powerful results, and we want to make those results go in a good direction.

Not trying to stir up anything negative, either for thelerner or joeblast... But did joeblast really not say this? If he did say it, it seems very out of character for him to talk about murdering children. If he didn't, it seems very out of character for thelerner to accuse someone of speaking about murdering children. Members shouldn't be permitted to say such things here, nor should they accuse others of saying such things when it didn't actually happen. Not wishing moderator actions against these members...but can this whole debacle not happen again?

I don't think that makes any sense in the context of using "butthurt". The conversation the person didn't like gave them a hemorrhoid? At least personally, anal rape is the implied meaning that I always understood about the term. I have never seen any definition of it that referred to hemorrhoids, but I have seen anal rape as a definition. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ButtHurt on the first two pages we can see multiple mentions of it.

I generally don't take sides, just state the truth as far as I'm able. Nothing against jonesboy...not saying he's a rapist. Just that I think butthurt implies the meaning that the person had been "raped". Anyway, I've really got nothing against anyone here. I like you and jonesboy too.

I don't really have time to read what she said, but perhaps she was making that joke...and if so, that's quite witty.

Common usage of "butthurt" is to say that someone needs to get over what they're upset about. The implied meaning of the term is that they were just raped. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.