Aetherous

I can't, although at my school it's discussed in a fashion similar to "destiny" or "fate", and from what I understand it's taught as something distinct from yuan qi or jing. It was recently discussed during a lecture on the chong ren and du. Tian gui isn't explicitly called ming, but I suspect it's the same thing...what do you think?

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There are obscure concepts out there, from Chinese medicine for instance, that ming also has some to do with the heart and head and ling, although it's kept between the kidney area. No clue if opendao's school goes into such ideas at all. There are a lot of differing views on "ming", as can be seen here.

It's said that red phoenix + kunlun method = gold dragon body. There is generally more said than that of course, but these two methods are the core of the Kunlun school that Max formed, whose primary purpose is GDB.

There is a degree of liberation that happens from acupuncture, especially if done for that purpose. Is it as complete as Buddhism, which liberates one from the roots of suffering (such as the concepts of self and other)...no. It liberates from the effects of suffering, but not the causes. (This is based on the belief that the oral teaching is what causes liberation from the causes of suffering, such as the concept of self and other. Is it possible that "energy work" can do that liberation from the causes, at least from moment to moment...yes. It's possible to meditate and obliterate the sense of self, or duality, easily. But without understanding the path, the patient or Buddhist practitioner only gets a glimpse of liberation from that, a moment of freedom from suffering, and then soon enough falls back into the old way of living. This is just like any other form of temporary bliss. So, like in gardening, the root of the weed can be cut immediately, but it grows back quickly due to not being fully removed and the soil fully explored and worked over time.) In the true sense of the word, which is also the Buddhist sense, we do have acupuncturists (or better to call them Chinese Medicine practitioners, because they do other things too, like herbs) liberating each other.

Guys, this is great stuff.

Overall, the triple excellence program is very very good! I highly recommend you to it. I am part way through the first step of the 2nd excellence. The 3rd excellence portion isn't complete yet from what I understand, so no one can tell you about that phase of it. I personally had a hard time with some of the 1st excellence. Some aspects of Buddhist philosophy and beliefs don't appeal to me personally...such as actually believing there are different realms like the hell realm, god realm, etc. And I also am really not fond of the droning British accent in the lessons...you can try a month for free right now on the site, I think, and see what I mean about that. I personally just turn down the volume and read it myself...and I personally don't do it twice a day. Due to my busy schedule, I actually skip many days and just read a lot of them at one time. Not that I recommend you to do this, but you can make it work even if you're a bad student in it. At one point I made a review on here, that the program isn't good. But I changed my opinion later, as I continued. Now my opinion is that it's one of the best programs of transformational learning out there. Over time and if you keep going at it, you'll get a lot out of it. It's a great way to learn about Buddhism, which is very dissimilar to the Buddhism you've seen at this forum from some members (it's more practical while giving insight into the actual meanings of the philosophies, rather than getting stuck on them), and to practice the methods which can be liberating. Literally, liberating for your emotions...not just a turn of phrase. It makes understanding the Buddhist philosophy quite easy and intuitive, rather than obtuse. So, I view it as basically one of the most precious things in the world...because it can benefit you, and the world, so much...and is very accessible while actually being advanced (the perspective it teaches from is considered to be at a higher stage of learning in Buddhism). Having an in person teacher. Well, an in person empowerment is required before doing the 3rd excellence anyway. At least with this program, you'll be very well versed in Buddhism by the time that comes. You'll also have received many video taped teachings from Chokyi by that time, and can receive some personal instruction in the forum from his long time students and associated lamas. About refuge...I think you'll appreciate the perspective of the program, which is not about taking refuge in some person. And it's not about a blind leap of faith, or about giving away your power to think for yourself, or anything. It's more about honesty, and understanding how liberation works...while also incorporating some very basic vajrayana aspects. Oh yeah...and to be clear, there is no commitment in this program. I'm not even sure if the 3rd excellence requires a commitment. At least at this stage, the 2nd excellence, it is laid back and you could quit and go do another path with no ill effects.

My understanding of that part: the element of water...this is the prenatal jing having to do with the kidney...is scorched by the spirit's fire...Heart fire strengthening kidney yang or mingmen fire...which then is transmuting kidney yin and jing into yuan qi (true vitality) through the ren and du. By "gather the true generative force", it doesn't mean that vivifying your yuan jing will create more yuan jing. Gather here likely means to utilize...to transmute it. You understand what transmute means, right? It doesn't mean refill. It means to take a substance and make it lighter...like ice into water, or water into steam. You understand that generative force and vitality are two different things, right?

o.k. it is very clear - that is how the Yuanjing is restored. The terminology is incredibly misunderstood here. This part is actually talking about using up yuan jing, not restoring it.

Max of Kunlun was one of the teachers of Chris of DGS. Jenny and Max shared practices. (To me they are all like Sifus, knowing more and being better than me, but I don't call them that here because they aren't my personal teachers and this isn't such a formal discussion.) DGS material sometimes reflects Max's stuff and sometimes doesn't at all. Jenny's yigong/qigong for self healing is very much based on the one practice, and a bunch of side things to make that practice easier on the body or assist the practice in healing the body...it's treated in a qigong or physical healing fashion...and perhaps at times she teaches other practices to people. Kunlun contains lots of practices, many apparently from the Maoshan/Shangqing school...it also has the one practice, but at times it is altered and done in different ways, so as to be slightly different from Jenny's version (which is the original version). Most of those Kunlun practices have alchemy and light body as the focus rather than just physical healing. I would say that Jenny's DVD seems very very safe for most people. If you want a really solid practice, that would be good. DGS material gets more physical, which is also very good and lacking in too many spiritual arts...you just have to decide if you like their form of exercise, or if you prefer to jog or lift weights instead, for example. Personally, I don't have much patience for bagua or internal types of martial arts. So lets say you practice the Qigong for Self Healing DVD and you also exercise...that would be great in my opinion. Or lets say you're more interested in alchemy and mystical type practices...but you're already healthy and you also keep up with exercise...Kunlun might be a good choice if that's your focus. Or you might find that you aren't so keen on the kunlun/yigong practice and are seeking something else...it's not for everyone. I've personally moved onto other things, although from time to time I return to it.

You'll encounter problems when getting definitions of spiritual terminology from newage sources...the ones who pervert the teachings. Best to avoid what they're saying entirely and seek out a reputable source.

An interesting perspective on Chinese herbalism: It's not a common way of thinking, but it's a different approach. Personally what is seriously benefiting me as a beginner are these two books in addition to Bensky's MM and Scheid's Formulas.

Welcome xing...glad to hear that things are going well for you now.

Overcast days, it's good to practice. Here's an idea: warm your internal water with lower dantian breathing, so the external water evaporates as well...often times, the sun comes out soon after.

Yeah trying to practice from Daoist neidan books is a monumental task.

Red phoenix level 1 from Kunlun.

I'm just going to say this once in response: you are not interpreting the book correctly. I realize that you think the same thing about me.

In my understanding according to that book, holding to the cavity of spirit (a Xing practice of essential nature) produces generative/vital force (Ming or life). Or perhaps yuanshen produces or refills yuanjing and yuanqi (I know this is not what opendao and others think, but this is what I believe Taoist Yoga is saying). If the generative/vital force is spilled by having sexual desires, then the the cultivation of extra life force is wasted...but Xing is still fully achieved.

That many hours is technically possible...but realistically, 2-3 hours a day while living in society is even a lot.

So...it doesn't say that.

Where does it say that?

I've been wanting to get that book... About the different results...well, perhaps it's because in one you are forgetting or basically relaxing and being natural...and in the other you have the goal of overcoming the mind (perhaps you mean like silencing the thoughts). Different intentions and goals produce different results, although they are very similar. How do you calm the mind...do you just give yourself space to do nothing, or do you try and make it calm directly...

This is a thread about learning (and eventually mastering) pulse diagnosis primarily on your own. Barely anyone has immediate access to teachers of this, who will sit down each time you take a pulse and confirm your findings or point things out to you. Some teachers discourage learning on your own, while others encourage it. This thread is about encouraging practice, not discouraging in any way. It's also about gaining clarity on the subject. In my own experience after a month or so of daily practice, I can definitely say it's worth learning on your own. You won't get accurate results immediately, but your fingers become more sensitized and you learn and gain capability from experience...even if it's just on yourself! After just a month, I am completely confident in doing a very basic reading on anyone else. I've become capable of clearly discerning things. I've been gathering as much info on pulse diagnosis from multiple traditions as possible, and want to share some basics for how to approach this, which I think make it much easier to learn. I'm far from being a teacher of this, of course, so take it for what it's worth...just one student's notes on how to approach the subject. If any teachers or professionals have things to say, please feel free, and I won't be too bothered if I'm corrected about anything...as long as the correction is sensible and helps foster knowledge. ... Step One - Learn proper finger placement Opinions on exact positioning differ. What seems most reasonable to me is the following: 1) The Chinese name for the index finger's position, the most distal, is "cun". This refers to the pulse position being one "cun" (a unit of measurement that is equal to your thumb's width) away from the "fish" which is the Chinese word for thenar eminence. This point is precisely described in the Ling Shu, Chapter 2: "The Major Abyss point (Lung 9) is one cun behind the fish in the center of a depression." The exact point for measuring from the fish, is at the base of the "fish bone", which is at the carpometacarpal joint of the thumb. You find that, make a mark, then measure your thumb's width from that point...it should land exactly in the drop off point where the pulse is. Or simply feel the carpal bones and find where they drop off and where the pulse is. So a description based on its surroundings...it's distal and medial from the radial styloid process, it's just proximal from the carpal bones and thenar eminence, it's medial from the radius, and it's lateral from the flexor carpi radialis tendon. You will feel it as being a drop off point, where you can't feel the bottom as well as the surrounding locations, and where the pulse is clearly palpable. 2) The second point is called "guan". According to this book, the Chinese word guan is referring to a military fort that is looking out at a mountain pass. The mountain in this case is the radial styloid process...so the middle finger's position can be either medial and/or perhaps slightly proximal to the styloid process (the highest point of the bone, which is located lateral from the artery). Some teachers say that it's incorrect to have any finger on (or immediately medial) to the styloid process. Like I said before, opinions differ...but here I'm going off of the Chinese terminology, and this way is very usable. Later addition: after receiving some personal instruction, it's become pretty clear that the middle position is supposed to be proximal and medial to the highest point of the radial styloid proces most of the time...not directly medial to it. This is because we need enough room for the index finger to feel the pulse accurately at LU-9 point...the index should not at all be touching bone (this is the key point here), but should be in the depression where the artery is. Consider that in Ayurvedic style pulse taking, they have the index finger placed proximal to the radial styloid process...their finger positions are much further up the arm than in Chinese style. So you can still read the pulse even if it's not choked up on the wrist and hand...it is safe to go a bit more proximal. And this also gives you a more accurate read by being fully on the radial artery, rather than having the radial artery between the index finger and the scaphoid wrist bone or something. 3) The distal position, called "chi", is also described in the Ling Shu, Chapter 2: "The Channel Ditch point (Lung 8) is centered on the Inch Mouth (Chinese term denoting the radial pulse), the arterial pulse." Each of these three pulse points is said to be 6/10ths of your thumb's width each (the chi position is 7/10ths). This means that the cun and chi positions are basically one cun apart from eachother, so the exact positions will be beneath the center pad of your index and ring fingers. To illustrate this...put the three fingers together, then place your thumb squarely over the middle finger. The edges of the thumb will be approximately over the centers of your index and ring fingers. I wouldn't worry too much about how precise you can place your fingers at first, as much as being able to feel the pulse under all 3 fingers. It's best not to get hung up on what seems overcomplicated, and become discouraged by that. A very easy way that I do finger placement on myself...first put your palm facing upward at your heart level to expose the radial artery. You might want to kind of drastically bring the arm forward and over, to position it better so that the sensing hand's arm doesn't have to reach. Then wrap the sensing hand around the back of the wrist, so that the fingers are in the correct position (index, middle, ring going distal to proximal on the artery). According to some teachers, it's important to feel with those fingers in those positions. I place the radial styloid process (the highest point of the bone) in the groove between my index and middle fingers, then slide all three down onto the radial artery. I place the very tips of the three fingers equally on the edge of the flexor carpi radialis tendon, then let the upper to middle portion of the pads feel the artery itself. This portion of the finger is much more sensitive than the very tip. ... I realize this terminology might be a lot to process. It can be an opportunity to work on your Google-fu, if you're wanting to try it out.

Updated this thread a little bit. ... Another update: a person isn't likely to get an accurate and reliable diagnosis without integration with other aspects, such as observation of signs or asking of symptoms. Basically...just feeling the pulse is very incomplete and unreliable. If you become skilled at finding the pulse, you will likely discover that what's happening at the individual positions can change significantly, all of the time, without even doing anything...while the overall feel in all positions in general can tend to stay the same. It opens up the question: if this is constantly changing moment to moment, then is that method of pulse taking reliable to base the treatment on as the sole diagnostic tool? Furthermore, diagnostic signs and symptoms (seeing that their face is very red, or "my back hurts") can point to various things but are not the end all in themselves. Chinese Medicine as it's practiced today doesn't treat signs and symptoms directly: a practitioner will take many pieces of info from diagnosis and see which pattern emerges. A sign or symptom will point to a condition, that when treated will likely make the sign/symptom go away. For instance, Liver qi stagnation is a pattern...whereas feeling bloated while having a wiry pulse in general are two main S&S that can indicate the pattern of Liver qi stagnation. Then the practitioner treats based on the pattern or patterns. So beyond diagnostic knowledge and skill, of which pulse diagnosis is only a small and sometimes unreliable part, there's also the other half of the coin...the aspect of understanding patterns and differentiating them. Furthermore...if it's a good practitioner, they will understand the physiology/theory behind the patterns, consider etiology and pathology, and know about various pathomechanisms, which are like subcategories of the patterns that provide a more detailed and precise view. All in all...it's hard for the spiritual practitioner to accurately diagnose themselves, especially using only one method of diagnostic skill without any other knowledge. It requires a lot of study and correct understanding to be able to do this. So I no longer recommend attempting to learn from this thread, without all of this understood clearly. The easiest way of self diagnosis (which isn't a good idea) would be to check out Maciocia's Foundations book, and focus on the chapters dedicated to patterns. But that runs the risk of not learning all of the patterns first, so you see a couple of things that seem like your condition and you choose that pattern...perhaps it's an inappropriate one though, and another pattern would have fit much better. Be aware of this.

I agree with this 99.999%. The only thing I can personally say about transmission in any subject matter, is that a lot more information is able to be conveyed when done through real life personal interaction, as opposed to reading words...plus you get personal feedback on your practices that way. It's just really more conducive to learning. We could get mystical and say that it's because the teacher's cultivation reverberates and you tap into that, or other things...regardless of how it's happening, what is happening is that you're learning more through personal instruction. To illustrate this fact...try reading a book on computer programming (if you don't know it already). Then take a class in it. There is a huge difference in the experience of learning between those two methods. But could someone gradually learn all of the required information without in person instruction, from books? Yes...for many things. Think about Daoist texts for instance...there is a reason why those were written. It's not that they're worthless, because a person absolutely can't practice without a teacher...if that was the case, why would those adepts write them at all? They may be confusing in many parts, but at times they are clear enough to do some form of practice from.