Aetherous

What type of meditation causes you to shake? Are you sitting in a formal posture during it? There are many types of meditation...some don't require sitting in a posture. The overall purpose of all of them is just to calm and clear the mind. Welcome!

Ah yes, marriage.

Nice. What really matters.

Nah there is always something to do. There are always things that we don't like in the world, therefore there's always a desire for something better. Because there's a desire, there is the beginning of formulating a goal. With creating a goal, there is the action of writing it down and thinking about it, and there's also the (more important) action of taking real steps toward actualizing it. Even your post included all of this. You have been feeling low, so you had a desire to feel better, and you thought of what to do about it, and therefore you asked the forum. You did something. So to gain clarity, it can help to write down all of the things that suck in your life. Then it can help to write down all of the ways that things would ideally be for you and for the world. Then write down all of the steps you will take toward making things how they should be. That's a lot of work to do. Then the second half of the work is to actually take those steps. The Daoist concept of wu wei does NOT mean taking no action and being lazy, or letting things happen to you. It means taking no unnecessary action...wu wei means just doing what needs to be done. It does not mean shirking your duties or sensible actions, believing that things will take care of themselves without your help. Furthermore: feeling "low" is a yin state of being. To be proactive and take control of your life is yang. Doing this should make you feel better. It's best to balance the two of course...if you become too controlling and active, then you might be burning yourself out. But as of now, I think you're overly yin and could do with some action. For this very reason, the suggestion by Chris to walk for 45 minutes in the sun is excellent, and will truly help you.

Yeah, pretty sure they give you some sort of official paper saying that you've been trained as a Daoist. They might call it a register. Anyway, I understand how it can be annoying to hear that Daoists only come from having been trained in Daoism...but that's looking at things from the viewpoint of not being able to travel and be part of it. The fact is...anyone can travel and anyone can inquire about becoming one, if the effort is there. Instead of looking at it as an impossibility and something unnecessary, look at it as a future opportunity. There is much to learn in actual schools...and you can still have your books like the Dao De Jing and be primarily influenced by them. Not that anyone is stopping people from calling themselves Daoists. But we have to ask...if you're not trained in how to cultivate as a Daoist, then how can you cultivate as a Daoist?

Daoist temples in China. Thelerner's future sounds nice and relaxing!

Nah, there is real stuff out there...in the midst of a bunch of bull.

Does the Deed Without A Name book discuss these aspects? Very interesting stuff, Seth!

I don't want to get into any sort of personal thing here (because there was recent discussion on this topic, which involved me saying this and that about my experience)...but I'm interested in the discussion on whether enlightenment is an experience, and if not, what it is exactly. Also, if it's possible for someone to become enlightened and later lose it, or if it's only possible to become enlightened and impossible to lose it. And why. What needs to be discussed: 1) The exact definition of enlightenment. We can't just start throwing our opinion out there without knowing precisely what it is we're having an opinion about. So as a group we should come upon something which we can agree on. Using famous authors or people's quotes is a good idea to start off with. 2) Reasons for why enlightenment (as we define it) either is or isn't an experience. Please, no taking sides without an argument. The point here is having somewhat of a logical discussion with one another, in the attempt to weed out our erroneous beliefs...myself included. 3) What else it could be besides an experience. Personally, it seem unfathomable for something to not be an experience, or not be experienced. It'd help if someone who took that side of the argument could explain that point in terms which make sense. Please, no paradoxical riddles...that's kindergarten spirituality. 4) Reasons why people think it's impossible to fall from a state of enlightenment. This might be answered by the previous answers; for instance, if we come to find that it's not something experienced (because something we don't experience can't be something we lose). Those are the main things I hope others can discuss. I think with this structure we can come to agreement on many controversial issues, or at least have a good discussion. I'll wait for someone else to tackle this, and if no one bites, I'll start it off some time later.

I've only gone through the beginning course of Dharma Sun's Triple Excellence program...the ideas are just from there. I'm with you that it totally works with (what I know of) Vedanta.

The only way I'd feel comfortable calling myself a Daoist, is if I went to China and became an initiate (or whatever you call it) of a Daoist temple. Until then, I will only use the term in a non-serious way, or just say that I'm interested in Daoism. Apart from reading books, I've even had personal instruction in Daoist practices (as many forum members have), but am still not a Daoist...in truth, I barely know anything about it. I haven't read this book yet, but it seems like it'd be a good start to understanding what a Daoist actually is. And then to become one, you have to go and actually become one. Not just read the Dao De Jing and think that's it.

Coming back to this after having actually had some Buddhist instruction, in contrast to back in 2009, here's something I've learned... Enlightenment in Tibetan Buddhism is basically thought of as the Buddha nature, and an enlightened person is someone who is free from obscurations that cover the Buddha nature. The obscurations can be summed up as: conceptual thought (specifically involving dualistic notions of self and not-self), and negative emotions (pretty much, all of which stem from those notions). Someone who is totally free from those things is said to be enlightened. If you ever experience negative emotions, or if you are ever caught up in any kind of dualistic concepts, then you're not enlightened according to the Tibetan definition. The enlightenment is not considered as something that comes and goes...the Buddha jewel is totally unconditioned, without a beginning middle or end. So you can't create enlightenment, which would mean for it to have a beginning. Experiences and things come and go...so for anything that goes, it's not the state of enlightenment. To say whether it's an experience or not...well, you can absolutely experience being free from negativity and notions. It's a state of natural peace. But enlightenment is not a thing to be experienced, and it's not something that's created, or caused by any effort...it just is, and there are just things that obscure it. It is eternal. This sort of understanding is primarily for the purpose of training the practitioner's minds for the result...and is best understood in context, rather than from my unenlightened post. It's best to practice in order to understand this experientially at least to some extent. Just reading it, it might seem right or it might seem wrong. It really doesn't matter what people think or whether it seems logical or not. Doing Buddhist practices causes the realization of it...and that is all that matters.

Another idea I've recently been playing with, myself (due to having anxiety): take a solid 10 minutes at least, and just sit there. No need to try and do anything for the meditation method. Doing is what happens all day and involves the self, which generates anxiety...so take a break. Or as the six nails of Tilopa says, "relax right now and rest". Rest the self. Rest the doing. It's been helping me lately! Especially to do it before starting any other practices.

So true!

There is something to the idea of positive people not getting sick as much as negative people. But this statement that you won't get Ebola if you hold a high vibration, is untrue. The truth is that every person has fluctuating "vibrations". The higher you go, the harder you can fall at times...this is why we've seen cases over the years of Catholic priests molesting little boys. It's a deplorable act, unthinkable for the masses who aren't at all holy. This is proof that higher vibrations and positivity are just one end of the spectrum, and what goes up must come down. People truly on the spiritual path know how hard it is...whereas those who dabble and are just interested, don't yet know...that the mind will fight your aspirations with their opposite. Actually, attachment to positivity is very negative in itself. It masks negativity. If you weren't negative, you wouldn't feel such a need to seek out the positive. So it's better to let go of it all, embrace nonduality, than it is to cling to high and good vibrations...as good and high as they are. But even if you have those good and high vibrations, you can still contract Ebola, because you're a human body. Don't believe me? I'd say test it out for yourself, but that would end up in you dying, so I don't actually recommend it.

Seek (your hardest with all of your might everywhere for what you're looking for) and you will find. It's a purification process to put forth effort. Then when you do find, obey instructions. This is so much easier said than done.

Very true. Although, thinking of people as toxic and being able to erase them from your life completely, then having to tell yourself not to feel guilty about it, I don't view as being healthy in any way.

This is an example of the false form of spirituality that permeates our popular culture. Buddhism states that attachment is one of the three main emotional poisons...and attachment to happiness, attachment to not being around "toxic people"...these are clear indicators of the opposite of cultivation. Even considering people toxic is opposed to Buddhism. Buddhism considers all sentient beings to be worthy of accepting and helping. What they consider toxic are these negative emotions that are cultivated in the name of making one's false self temporarily feel better, at the expense of others. Just throwing this into the relevant topic...sorry I haven't had time to join into the conversation going on. (on the other hand, there's something to be said for protecting yourself in any way you can, at times...desperate times call for desperate measures, and you can't fault a person who truly needs help to take it from any available source)

The Kunlun Nei Gung school is said to be mostly from this tradition. Michael Saso translated the Huang Ting Jing in a book called The Gold Pavilion, which was a main book of Shangqing...and there's another (extremely poor) translation of it on Amazon called "Jade Writing: Individual Phase Space User Manual", but which includes the Chinese characters and pinyin for those who want to do some translating or interpretation work of their own. Jerry Alan Johnson was trained in the Zheng Yi school. I would assume that Zheng Yi Daoism did preserve some of the Shangqing school. Is Maoshan still an active school...because the wikipedia says that it's still the principal seat of Shangqing Dao. Although these days it's mostly known for black magic rituals.

Qigong for Self Healing will help over time (it's in the store section of that site). This method helps our bodies deal with the extra energy, and also causes the qi flow to make your feet warm and your heart and head cool, lowering blood pressure. Totally works. Also be sure to drink more water throughout the day, since that's a source of yin and body fluids...and consider seeing a Chinese Medicine practitioner. It can also help to spend time truly relaxing and not needing to do anything, each day. This forum is not strictly for experienced people, all are welcome!

Her translations are amazing, and in messaging briefly with her, she seems like a very loving and kind person! I looked her up here before posting, because just today I wanted to recommend her translation, "Let the Radiant Yang Shine Forth". It's about Confucian/Daoist healing based on rectifying your emotions. Contains really unique and practical ideas about the Dao, which I think are something that we miss in our Western approach to the subject. People actually claim to have been healed of cancer and other hard to treat diseases from this style of healing.

Nothing wrong with viewing authority figures this way, when they behave this way.

Listening to this

Well, at other times I'll be listening to Meshuggah, so perhaps not so refined. You are welcome. I like that too!

Lol. What? Nah, I think Abraham Lincoln said that...or something.