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Everything posted by goatguy-too
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Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
The most complex riddle I have been able to solve yet comes from Revelation 17. Since this will take some effort to document well, I will have to do it a piece at a time. So I will give clues for the next step so that those who wish to attempt to solve it may apply themselves to the task. Clue 1: Where else in scripture do you find seven and ten? Feel free to share your efforts here, if you wish. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
I would like to show how the methods demonstrated in Thomas are applied to the Bible. I will use Genesis 1:1 as the text. בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ Ge 1:1 The hieroglyphic meanings of the letters: א the silent alef, represents the creation of the heavens and the earth. It is drawn as a vav dividing two yuds. A word is spoken and there are two creations. This is the primary meaning which gets applied as the division between any two things which are essentially one. It can also represent the reconciliation of the two by it's position in a word. In it we can see the division of the light and dark, the waters and dry land, the separation of holiness and grave, spirit and flesh, etc. Thomas uses it for 'war' in saying 16 and John uses it for water (from the division of the waters) in 1 John 5:8. Thomas uses aleph for 'war' ר resh is a revelation. If the upper right hand corner were square, it would be a declaration, commandment, or a spoken word (and the letter would be a dalet). The difference between a revelation and a declaration is that the revelation contains aspects of personality or life. John uses resh for Word (as in the Word became flesh) in 1 John 5:8. ב the bet when used as a prefix means 'in'. It is drawn as a resh (revelation) which joins the lower horizontal (representing earth or men). It is the personality of God being revealed to men. It is God's revelation 'in' or 'among' men. ה the hei is another variation on the resh. The vertical line on the left represents a partial response to the revelation. There are three ways to respond to revelation. You can hear it as a voice but not understand. This is the response of blind faith. You can see (or understand) it, or you can walk (live) in it. The hei represents hearing. י the yud represents God's first thought of creation. When he created, he could not create outside of himself, so he opened a void within himself. That void represents all the potential of all creation. All of the other letters are drawn by beginning with a yud. THey are expressed from the yud. All of the words are made from the letters, and everything God created he spoke into existence using the words. The blank page represents God. It is untouched and unspoiled by teh hand of man. The yud is the spark of creation that oozes from the blank page. The yud is pronounced 'yah' and is a short name for God. It represents that first thought of creation, or the one who thought it. ו the vav is translated 'and'. It is the first word spoken into the void which discerned the heavens from the earth. The yud is the unified whole of all God would create. The vav discerns the heavenly aspects from the earthly aspects. Like the word 'and' it divides and joins. The use of 'and' tells us there are two, and yet it binds the two as one. Thomas uses the vav for sword (which discerns between soul and spirit, etc.) ל lamed is a shared spiritual experience. The upper put originates above most of the letters which is something that originated with God. It is horizontal on the heavenly plane and shared with men as it descends. It is akin to 'teaching' where the student is fully engaged. The topic is of interest to teacher and student. מם the mem has two forms. It is formed with a kaf (the Son of God) and a zayin (his bride). It represents a covenant declared in heaven. God chose a bride for his Son before the creation (see them touch in the upper part but not in the lower). The final form joins them on earth. John uses both in 1 John 5:8 for the Father (who chose the bride) and the Son (who was joined to the bride). ץ the tsadi, shown in it's final form represents the heart of the righteous man (the messiah). It it the revelation of holiness and grace reconciled in his person (in the regular form) and in his death in the final form shown, as the tail descends below the lower horizontal. ש The shin is drawn as a vav, a word spoken into the void, which has one primary response and a secondary. The first metaphor is that God spoke and created the heavens and the earth, with the emphasis being on the fact that he spoke. The alef focuses on the division. It means that "God's word doesn't return void". The shin represents the harvest (bringing the bride to the man) by the Spirit (who is represented by fire) and coincidentally the letter looks like a flame. John uses it for Spirit in 1 John 1:8. ת the tav is another letter derived from the resh. This is a full response, a spontaneous response generated from the essence of life to the revelation of God. It represents a finished work. When tagged on to a subroot, it makes the subroot the object. What isn't said The alef is the first letter of the alef-bet, but it is not the first letter of the first revelation from God to men. The second letter has that privilege. Is it a coincidence that the first letter is silent, not used, and it means "God spoke and created the heavens and the earth" or does it indicate that when God spoke... there was no one there to hear or observe the creation? The absence and the silence are deafening when placed in the context of Gen 1:1. The first verse tells us that God created the heavens and the earth. The beginning The first word declares the same message as the alef and the first verse. ב - This is a revelation to man. ר - It is revealed א - that God spoke and created the heavens and the earth ש - he spoke, and the heavens and the earth responded י - what he conceived to do ת - he finished Combinations or rightly dividing the word of truth The word for beginning can be divided many ways making other words. ב-ראשית : in ב – the beginning ראשית ב-ראש-י-ת : in ב - the authority of (heads of) ראש - the creator י – (makes it an object) ת בר(אש)ית : a covenant ברית with man אש at the center ברא-שית : created ברא an appointment שית בר-אשי-ת : the son בר – offered total devotion (fire offerings) אשי – (makes it an object) ת John rightly divides the word The book of John, which was written in Greek, contains the teaching of John who taught in Hebrew.. John taught the Greeks how to rightly divide the word in Hebrew and how to play childish word games. John 1.1-4 is derived from Ge 1.1 by 'rightly dividing' the Hebrew words in Genesis. בר : the son. The son is “in the beginning” because בר is in בראשית. The first three words of Ge 1.1 are בראשית ברא אלהים (don't forget to read right to left) ברא : This word is generally translated “created” but since God spoke whenever he created, it is proper to translate this as “created by the word” or the “word which created. John says “In the beginning was the Word” because ברא is in בראשית. Notice that son בר is in create ברא, and John identified the Son as the Word which created. ברא is next to אלהים: the word (which created) ברא was next to Elohim אלהים so John said “and the Word was with God,” (Joh 1:1) ברא also describes God as the creator, so John said, “and the Word was God.” Puns of Elohim אלהים Elohim has a pun pronounced 'l'chaim' meaning life and so John said “In him was life;”. אלהים Elohim has another pun pronounced 'a lo khoom' which means 'not dark', and so John said “and the life was the light of men.” . Incidentally, אלהים Elohim has another pun pronounced 'lechem' meaning 'bread' and John later says “For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.” (Joh 6:33 ). Dividing Elohim אלהים as אל-הי-ם gives: for אל – him הי - marriage on earth ם. (Re 19.7) Ath not translated The word את ath need not go untranslated. The א is the first letter of the alef-bet and the ת tov is the last. את is similar to the Greek alpha and omega. It refers to everything from the beginning to the end. It may be rendered “everything in”. Ge 1.1 could say, “ ...God created everything in the heavens and everything in the earth.” (Col 1:16). But since Jesus is the alpha and omega (Re 21:6) Ge 1.1 could say, “...God created Christ's heavens and Christ's earth.” (Eph 3:9, Re 4:11) Heavens ה-שםים – the ה– two heavens שםים. God created two heavens. the third heaven was not created. (2Co 12:2) The phrase “ the heaven and the heaven of heavens” (De 10.14) is technically incorrect. It is the “two heavens השמים and the ו- heaven of שמי two heavens השמים.” There is a third heaven over the two heavens. One may be tempted to say that the third heaven is where God is, however the third heaven is not big enough to contain God. (1Ki 8:27) It can be said that the third heaven is within God, and since it is not created, it is the very substance of God himself. It should not be a surprise to hear Paul say that one was caught up to the third heaven, it is no less plausible to be “in God” than it is to be “in Christ” (Ro 8.1) or that one day all things will be gathered in Christ. (Eph 1.10) Dividing the word: ה-שם-י-ם – the ה – name שם- of me י – (the word שםים alternately means 'of marriage') ם. The 'name' or reputation of God is in his marriage. John correctly points out that the word heaven has gematria of 3 and that the letters represent the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in 1 John 5:8. earth The word earth ארצ when interpreted by the hieroglyphics means “He is a split word running”. David expresses this as he unpacks the hieroglyphics for himself in “Ps 147:15 He sendeth forth his commandment [upon] earth: his word runneth very swiftly.” He uses two terms “commandment and word”. The commandment is the law which expresses holiness, and the Word is the son which went to the grave, expressing love. This is found in the word ארצ 'earth' even as the commandment and the word run in the earth. In Revelation, Jesus repeatedly says that he (the Word) comes quickly. (Re 3.11, Re 22.7, Re 22.12, Re 22.20) John correctly points out that the word earth has gematria of three and that the letters represent the water, word and blood. The silent alef explodes into the first word which unpacks into the first verse. The first verse later unpacks into the first chapter, which unpacks into six divisions of the rest of the Bible. The methods used to discern the meaning of the Bible are the same that Thomas taught us. We can see that the nature of Thomas is different from that of the Bible. The Bible is intricately interwoven with itself down to the detail of the 'jot and tittle'. Thomas speaks about it in the same way I do. I cannot produce a text with the depth of meaning that springs forth from scripture, and Thomas couldn't either. This is why I say that Thomas teaches us about the scripture, but is not scripture. -
I read it decades ago. It used to be in my library with other modern religious books. All I remember (and mind you, I am of an age where I have forgotten even more than I ever knew) was that I was not real impressed with any kind of historical connection. I think someone previously mentioned hedonism, and I think that fairly well sums up what I remember. It's easy to nullify self when you can't remember who you are. ;-)
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A better question 'What if you lived for a very long time?'
goatguy-too replied to thelerner's topic in General Discussion
When I am climbing the mountain with my goats I have Tylenol, rum and Hydrocodone so that whatever the pain level there is something to take my mind off it. (I rarely use any of it, but have it just in case). Age gives us so many different ways to experience pain, and with sufficient reflection on the things we never accomplished an accute awareness that we are not in control. If I new I was going to live a long time I would be tempted to take more reckless chances; perhaps attempt to catch bullets with my teeth ;-) -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
I absolutely love this one because so many educated people mock Thomas using this verse saying that it is ridiculous nonsense. But compare to Jeremiah: Using their standard for interpretation we must say that Jeremiah is Gnostic nonsense. One cannot intelligently teach any doctrine on men, women or marriage until they can make sense of this prophecy. The key is one we have used previously: Paul tells us that the woman represents those who are 'blind' or do not understand clearly. The old female donkey that led Jesus into Jersusalem represents the old prophets who did not see clearly. The young male donkey represented John the baptist who knew who Jesus was. The Sikhs have a saying that men must become virgins. This is not an endorsement of Sikhism but evidence that the riddle is not unknown outside of Christian circles. Those who do not understand (Mary, whose name means 'rebellious') will be taught be Jesus, so that they understand (become male). Those who understand (men) must become the bride of Christ (virgins), and they will become fruitful (pregnant). I hope, at a minimum, that I have shown that it is not necessary to call Thomas Gnostic, since his sayings are consistent with orthodox Christian teaching when interpreted in (what I believe is) the proper genre of riddle. I would additionally hope that I have given enough teasers to suggest that the same riddling takes place in the Bible, and contains the hidden prophecies of Christ which the human author could not have known about. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
The kingdom is the "New teaching of peace" which Jesus ushered in on the sermon of the mount by saying "You have heard it said... but I say". -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
This is the classic riddle. The answer is the third option. "Happy is the soul and the flesh that depends on Christ". -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Compare: When you "find yourself" (your eyes are opened) you put off the flesh by resisting the temptations of the flesh and are better than the flesh. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
This is one of the few direct admonitions. Everyone lives in the world but they are blind to the spirit. When you find the spirit you become rich, you find that you are in the world, and it is time to renounce the world. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
These are the sons of God. The first was Adam who had a hidden treasure in the garden but didn't know it. HIs son Israel (the nation) also had the treasure in the Torah, but didn't know it. The church now has the treasure and when it shares it, gets more in return. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
The living water is the teaching of Christ. When we drink of it we become like him as we put off the flesh and live by the spirit. Christ dwells within us, and we shall have our eyes opened... understanding the scriptures. The study of the teaching, and indwelling Spirit help us understand the teaching. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Compare: Thomas and Matthew both use 100 representing the church (the tithe of the king (1000) and ninety-nine which is 9 (three persons who are each fully God 3x3) x 11. Recall the story of the twelve sons of Jacob. 11 were safe with Jacob, and Joseph, the one he loved most was in Egypt. Joseph was the biggest sheep since he had become the ruler of Egypt. Christ is the greatest in the kingdom because he served us all, as did Joseph when he saved teh world from famine. Though the church is loved, Christ s loved most. How did Jesus 'go astray'? He was made to be sin, so that wecould be made the righteousness of God. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
This verse speaks directly of one of the hints we have used before. When there are two things, they represent two aspects of one thing. Spirit/body, heaven/earth, marrow/joint, intent of the heart/passing thought, light/dark, sun/moon, day/night, water/dry land, etc. More than just understanding it is living it. For us the spirit and body must have the same intent, message, meaning, purpose, etc. The mountain is where men go to meet God. After the resurrection the mountain became a symbol of the false place to meet God since he was now in the hearts of men (the sea). One who is like Jesus (sons of man), may cast down idols and false gods. (This is a figurative saying meaning that he may purge himself of such idols). -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Normally if you don't know the father, one is called the son of a harlot. In the case of Christ, he is the only one who knew his father. He was called the son of a harlot. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Compare: Once again the literal is so similar it cannot be said to be Gnostic. The invitation to pray and fast is a declaration that there is need of divine assistance and is a denial that Jesus is divine. The only way that prayer and fasting would be necessary in the presence of Jesus is if he failed his mission to be tempted in every way that we are, yet not sin. When he is not with us, we may acknowledge our own frailties and failures. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
When Israel entered the promised land the story contains a hidden picture of the church plagued by temptations of the flesh. The enemies that they drove out, and those which continued to cause problems represent those temptations. The temptations of the flesh have been clearly identified so that the man of God may be prepared to resist. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Compare : Though it appears to be an original saying it is basically the same teaching contained in Matthew. The dogs are those who "return to their vomit"; they like their sin. Sleep is used for 'death'. The Pharisees are already dead, though they are physically alive. They do not 'eat' the word of God from Jesus's teaching. And their very presence keeps others from hearing as well. Here 'oxen' is plural and represent his followers (in the manger) in a similar fashion as sheep. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Again this is literally a similar teaching so it cannot be said to be Gnostic. The key to understanding what is being said comes from an obscure law: Buried in the statement "he hated him not in time past" is the implication that the accident was an act of hate. This may seem extreme, however, Love is the choice to put another first. The opposite of love is hate, and if the person is not loved, he is hated. The wood-chopper did not take the safety of the other into account first. He placed the act of chopping wood to be more important than the safety of his friend. Now we can understand what God meant by: God placed the firstborn son Esau to be in the place of the second and Jacob to inherit. Christ must be first in our priorities before all others. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Compare: The literal teaching is the same, so it cannot be said that this is a Gnostic teaching. Observe the differences: Thomas references a gold coin vs. a denarius which was a silver coin and the name means 'ten asses' from a laborer's ability to load ten asses with goods he harvested in the day. It was probably a day's wage. Matthew's silver coins were a refererence to Jesus in the flesh (silver) and Thomas's gold references Jesus in deity or resurrection. The image or inscription is examined in Matthew to see who owns it, but Thomas's gold coin belongs to Jesus as God, which is being demanded by the tax collectors. This is the cause for Thomas's addition, "give me what is mine". No one who understands the spiritual meaning is expected to apply it to the literal objects. Though all things belong to God, we still do what is required of us by government because God established government. The Christian recognizes that the money paid through taxes is paid as if it were given to God. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Compare: Matthew records the 'sister' in the list of relatives and Thomas does not. This may indicate that Matthew had a better grasp of the the riddle than Thomas, and may serve to indicate an earlier authorship, or just a lack of understanding at a later date. Jesus was born a Hebrew and the Hebrews were the 'mother' of him in the flesh. Those Hebrews who were following him but did not yet understand represent his spiritual mother (the female does not see clearly). The sister would represent the gentiles who were following without understanding, and the brothers are the discoiples who followed and did understand. Also notice there is no father on the list, because no one should be called father, in the spiritual sense, but God himself. (Mt 23:9) -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
The word for 'wall' שור is also 'bull' which is the sacrifice representing Christ. Judgment begins with the house of God Judgment began when Christ laid down his own life (the bull) and then passes to his house (the wall) then to his enemy. The word for wall also means 'enemy'. -
Sacred Writings of Different Past Cultures
goatguy-too replied to Immortal4life's topic in General Discussion
Hmmm... I think I am imagining that I am observing myself running and all the things that come with that. oops, now I am observing that I am imagining that I am observing that I am running... As long as I don't actually have to run, I am happy. ;-) I'll go back to sleep ;-)- 15 replies
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Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
It would appear that Thomas is becoming emboldened to create his own illustrative sayings in order to display his ability to use the symbols. Before someone condemns Thomas for 'adding to the word of God' we should be mindful that nearly every preacher invents allegories or metaphors which hopefully are based in the truth of scripture. Thomas is doing no more than this. We could do the same about now: If a man were to dress as a woman and lead a herd of goats by a church, it would be reminiscent of the 'dinner theater' that God called the prophets to enact in order to prophetically judge Israel. It would be a sign that someone who knew the truth (male) chose to do the works of someone who didn't see clearly (garments of the woman). It would be implied that they chose to ignore the truth in order to be attractive to the congregation represented by the goats, who were living in the flesh rather than the spirit. This saying of Thomas is built upon the last. It is the same 'certain woman'; the church. The word for a stalk (as a stalk of corn) is קמה and for flour or meal is קמח. The difference is between the ה which represents a partial response to God's word, and ח which is a full response. There is an old joke about the chicken being 'committed' to a breakfast by giving an egg and the pig being 'dedicated' by giving the bacon. The stalk has responded to God's word in the earth; it stands up in the earth. The meal is the seed of the stalk which has dedicated itself by enduring the tribulation of the threashing floor. קמה After the resurrection of the Son, the covenant made in heaven is responded to in part (on earth) whereas it is responded to in full קמח by the meal. We are also called pots and vessels.... So the church empties itself as it lives/walks. It does not consider the emptying to be an accident. It is by God's design. The teaching of the father is fully lived out through the church. When the life of the church is over (laid down) it is found to be fully poured out. It has spent it's life in total devotion even through tribulation. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Why did Thomas say the 'kingdom of the father' rather than the' kingdom of heaven' as Matthew says? There is word play between 'father' and 'dough'. Examinig the hieroglyphics: אב Father the one who came in after the separation. בצק dough: 'ב in' 'צק poured' 'leaven' is 'teaching' as we have seen before. Thomas also changes the focus from the 'kingdom of heaven' to 'a certain woman'. The woman always represents the church which is the bride of Christ. Matthew's says that the kingdom of heaven is 'teaching' or 'leaven' where Thomas says the kingdom of the Father is the bride of Christ which places the new teaching of Christ, in the loaf, which has no old teaching in it. Normally, the loaf is seen as Christ, but because "we will be like him", the things that are spoken of Christ, apply to us, though sometimes in a different sense than as applied to Christ. Thomas is making a commentary that the new teaching of Christ is not an isolated idea. It is not an intellectual exercise. It is not separated from those who have been called to be the bride, but is demonstrated by the changed lives of those who are the bride. Unfortunately, there are many who call themselves Christian, to whom the Lord will say, "Depart from me. I never knew you." -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
The plain teaching is simple enough. The kingdom of heaven is not stuff that you possess. The interpretive priciple here is designed to correct misunderstandings about money. It is not evil. "If you have money" implies that it is money that is in excess of what you need. It is available to be lended. Rather than invest in the things in this world, give it to those who have need in this world. It demonstrated where your heart is. The riddle is implied by the Hebrew 'val chomer' argument. It goes like this in the general form: If this small thing is true, how much more is this similar larger thing true? So what is the hidden large thing to which Thomas refers (as he teaches us to use the val chomer argument)? If your excess money (which is valuable in the flesh) should be given away freely to those who have need, certainly the word of God (which has a much greater value to the spirit) shoud be given away to those who have need. Put this in the context of the saying of the temple prostitutes, and you see that the money changers in the temple violated this spiritual principle. So make your Paypal payments out to Goatguy.... just kidding. What has been freely given should be freely given. As the living water is given away, the one giving loses nothing and the word is increased in the world.