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Everything posted by goatguy-too
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Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Image - form Light - Holiness, separateness The forms (symbols) are manifest to man. But the holiness that the symbols contain are concealed in Christ Christ is The image of the holiness of the Father. He will be made known (He was made known in the resurrection) but his form (body) will remain concealed by his holiness. (His body will remain separate from those whom he indwells). -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
The fire is the Spirit. The kingdom is the new teaching of peace. Jesus said, "You have heard... but I say". -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
This riddle is teaching that parallel proverbs teach the same thing. Let him who has grown rich be king let him who possesses power renounce it. The first saying says the same as the second. Jesus taught continually about rernouncing the flesh and the things of this world. It would be incongruous to believe that he would tease the flesh into life by promising earthly kingship. As kings we rule over the flesh. As priests we intercede for others. We are invited to be kings and priests now, in this life. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
In saying 78, the religious leaders were unable to discern the truth. Speaking of the Ninevites, the symbols of left and right are used to say they cannot discern between the flesh and the spirit: One who has found the body is one who now discerns the flesh and the spirit, and is one step closer to knowing the truth. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
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Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
First we'll look at the individual elements, then put it all together. Desert מדבר Desert also means south. It represents the desolate earth. The points of the compass: North - heaven, South - earth, East - eternity, West - filthy time. מ - as a prefix means 'from' דבר - word If one has come South, they have come from the North. They came from their 'heaven' south to a place that is outside of their 'heaven'. They have left their religion to see John. Reed 'Reed' is also 'straw'. It is the stubble which will be burnt up in the fire of judgement. (1Co 3:12) Shaken 'Shaken' is also 'cast out'. Reed shaken by the wind Compare with: 1Ki 14:15 For the LORD shall smite Israel, as a reed is shaken in the water, and he shall root up Israel out of this good land, which he gave to their fathers, and shall scatter them beyond the river, because they have made their groves, provoking the LORD to anger. The first reed is shaken by the word/water, the second by the Spirit/wind. Recall God's promise that he would not destroy the world by water, but the next round would be by fire/spirit. When one is living by the Spirit, the flesh is no longer in control. It has been destroyed. Garment Ever since Adam and Eve tried to cover their sin with garments/works of their own hands, garment have symbolized works. Their sin was eventually covered by the work of God when he provided garments of skins. Summary Jesus said, "Why have you left your religion and come to a place away from what you think is the kingdom of heaven? To see one who has been cast out to be burned in judgement? And to see a man of good works like those whom you adulate? (See the incongruity of the saying, they expect he is being judged, yet believe he is doing a good work.) You think your leaders do good work, yet they cannot even discern what 'good' is. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
I apologize that I am often only doing half of what I said I would do, so I may have to go back and fill in. Not only is the GOT orthodox, but it reveals the methods used in the mysteries of the Bible. I should be showing how the same methods are used by the Biblical authors. In fact, I could use some help developing a taxonomy for the various forms of riddle. It would make it easier to map the Bible and discuss the mysteries there. Some of them map into the 32 rules of Rabbi Eliezer, but there is more than he knew. GOT is a great enumeration of many of them. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Light represents the Holiness of God. As seen previously the all is what can be known in the flesh about God, the perfect is what can be known in the flesh and the spirit. The word עץ wood is two letters, when you split it, you find the blank page. God said that we are not to make any graven image of him. The blank page is the hieroglyphic symbol that we don't engrave. It is not polluted by the hand of man. It represents God himself; the perfect. The blank page is what you would find if you could lift the word stone off it. Jesus is the perfect, as represented by the blank page. This is the same teaching as: -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
The kingdom of heaven is the new teaching of peace. In this saying the merchant rids himself of the burden which is not his in order to obtain the wisdom of the pearl. The Greek word μαργαρίτης 'pearl' is a linguistic pun. This is the same kind of cross-language pun as Nazarite and Nazarene that Matthew uses (Mt 2:23 ). מר - myrrh, bitter רג – kill גר – sojourner, he stirs up All the two-letter sub-roots are related to imagery of the cross, which Jesus said is the key to the kingdom; the key to teaching the wisdom of God. Some are bothered by the apparent theft of stuff to purchase the pearl. However, all stuff belongs to God whether it is in our possession or the possession of another. He puts it in our possession to use to gain wisdom. How do we do that? By not clinging to stuff. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
It is a warning that there are many false Christ's standing at the door and only the one who died alone is the real one (Christ himself): -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
These are identical teachings. We cannot conclude that one is Gnostic and the other is not. Here Jesus is expressing the solitude of his own mission and praying for companions. The very next saying, perhaps belongs with this one: The topic is the living water. There are many who were thirsty for it as they clamored around Jesus, but the Living water sprung from his grave, and he had not yet died. Coupled with the previous saying it is an expression of his willingness to face the cross. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
This saying, if it a true saying of Jesus and not merely 'class notes' then it shows a playfulness in the personality of Jesus. The word בדל means a separated portion and is used in Amos for a separated ear. A man says "Tell my brothers to separate my father's possessions" and Jesus picks up on the pun and says, "Who has made me a separated ear?" Though it is a very silly pun, it means that he only listens to the Father for instruction. There is a parallel teaching when the mother of a couple disciples asks Jesus to let them sit on his left and right side. Jesus responded that the choice was that of his Father. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
The house he spoke of was his own body as the actual temple of God. Only God can build his own house. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
This is a commentary on Mt 25:15 The riddle is to discern what the servants had within them. It helps to know that a talent wages for a servant for about a year. Normally the master cares for the servants, but since he would be away he gave them sufficient to care for themselves while still serving him in whatever capacity they were able. Had he not provided for them, they would have had to work for someone else. Jesus is the master who would be leaving for a while. He provided sufficient resources for his servants to care or themselves and still serve him. That's the hint. What does Christ provide for his servants so they can still serve him while he is away? He gives his indwelling Spirit. The last servant did not continue serving Christ. He did not 'let his light shine'. When Christ gives a new life within you, he intends for that life to be fruitful and multiplying. This servant forfeited life by not living it. The reason that other servants were given more is that should the master be away longer than he had anticipated, the servants with much were trusted to care for the servants with little. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
While being introspective we should see our fault and sin and own up to it. Only when we have acknowledged God as God, are we able to put our own deity envying ego to death. Here again food is a metaphor for the wisdom of God, so this saying is the same as: -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
In Matthew those who are hated and persecuted receive the Kingdom of Heaven. The Kingdom of Heaven is the New Teaching of Peace which is Love. When someone is persecuted and they turn the other cheek (Mt 5:39) they are demonstrating the Kingdom of Heaven. This riddle is telling us that the Kingdom of Heaven is not a place, it is love. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
The all is God. If you know God and are not filled by his Spirit, the alternative is none to pleasant. 'The all' is כל this is in contrast to 'the perfect' כלל. The double ל implies 'spiritual and fleshly'. Those who know God only as the all only know him as the flesh can know him. Those who know him as the perfect, know him in flesh and spirit. -
Why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit an 'unrepentable' sin ?
goatguy-too replied to chegg's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
Obviously I did not state it in such a way for you to understand, since your restatement is certainly not what I intended. If there is a bonfire, and you are standing in it in your swimsuit, and I am in an asbestos space suit. One of us gets burned and the other doesn't. It is YOUR state in the presence of God which makes the difference... not His. If you wish to chat about how the Bible can't be trusted, lets go to another thread. The OP is asking about a Biblical doctrine, it makes no sense for someone who does not place any stock in the Bible to try to interpret it with any kind of consistency. So it doesn't make sense to continue that part of the thread any more. -
Why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit an 'unrepentable' sin ?
goatguy-too replied to chegg's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
According to the Bible, God is in hell too. It's like the fire, and water in scripture. Depending on your state it either destroys or refines/purifies. Hell is not so much a place as a conditon one may be in concerning the relationship with God. Christian myths such that Hell is where God is not, or Mormon myths such as a place of outer darkness where God is not, are not based on the Bible. There is no place you can be to escape the presence of God. God is where God is. Hell is where you are if you are not reconciled to him. It is a state of being unreconciled to your own life when it is exposed in the presence of God. There is no dichotemy based on physical locations. That's why I suggested above that the issue with understanding hell is based in the creeds and statements of faith, not in the Bible. I true understanding of God cannot be had without reconciling everything that is said about him. There is a Christian myth that God cannot be in the presence of evil, but God says of himself: So he certainly can be in the presence of hell. -
Why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit an 'unrepentable' sin ?
goatguy-too replied to chegg's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
You may be right, but there might be information that you are not considering: When God created the heavens and the earth, the word שמים heavens is a dual form implying that two heavens were formed. So where did the third heaven come from? (2Co 12:2) The phrase 'heaven of heavens' s (De 10:14) suggests that there is an eternal heaven. But even this heaven of heavens cannot contain God. It is not where God is, but itself must be in God. or be God. When God created, he could not create something outside of himself, since there is nothing bigger than God, so he made a void within himself in order to create everything else. But since there is nothing self-existent but God himself, then the heaven of heavens must be God. The word קדם eternal also means 'east'. On the compass, north represents heaven, soth represents earth. East represents eternity, and west represents 'filthy time'. Time is attached to the fall. Eternity is not endless time. It is timelessness. We might call it quantum life. Things change, but there is no time. When God created, he did so in quantum life. He could create mountains that look like they are old in the same instant he could create radiation halos that look like they happened instantly. Only at the fall did the clock start ticking. Another thing that might weigh in is that fire represents the Holy Spirit. This suggests that if you are in the presence of God and you are in some kind of condition, that his very presence creates the hell within you. You can probably experience this from time to time. Did something ever trigger a memory and you had a physical response to it. It would be a memory of something you did and just the thought of it make you wince, or flip a finger, or literally bite your tongue. That is a preview of hell. Just the presence of God will give you remembrance of all thoise things in your life, and since there is no time, that split second that you experience now, will last forever. We continually accuse God of being mean and nasty, when all he is doing is warning us that if we don't resolve those issues and that guilt before entering eternity, we will be weeping and gnashing our teeth evermore in his presence. If Adam had been permitted to eat of the tree of life before his guilt could be dealt with on the cross, the garden would have become hell every time God stepped into it. -
Why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit an 'unrepentable' sin ?
goatguy-too replied to chegg's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
I was only referring to this statement: The existence of eternal damnation is very much an article of faith for many so much so that they condiser universalism a heresy. I was just pointing out that the teaching of the existence of eternal damnation might actually have room for arguement or speculation without doing violence to the Bible, though it would do great violence to those statements of faith or creeds which are held in higher esteem than the Bible. I am not prepared to defend universalism, but I am prepared to defend the one who may hold that position, against charges of heresy. I only posted a few Biblical passages that may suggest universalism to show that there is justification for rational Christians to hold that position. There are many more. -
Why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit an 'unrepentable' sin ?
goatguy-too replied to chegg's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
You know, I have been sharing the Gospel of Thomas from the perspective that it is an orthodox Christian document which reveals how to read the sensus plenior of scripture. I am able to read the Bible in four layers in a fashion which I believe is reproducible, self-correcting and verifiable. The Jews believe that the Bible has four layers (PaRDeS), and the Catholic church has a memory of four layers (the Quadriga) though I have been unable to find anyone today who can read it that way. Three of the four layers speak nothing about eternal damnation. And using only the literal texts, for a doctrine to be considered Biblical, it still has to sum up and include everything the Bible has to say on the matter. I know what the kingdom of heaven is as surely as I know anything. Though I am not a universalist, I reserve an opinion on hell only because I have not yet reconciled everything the Bible has to say on it. But I cannot condemn a person for being non-Christian because he is a universalist. God says that it is his will that all men should be saved, and that no one can stay his hand in accomplishing his will. The nature of Love is to put others first. If he has commanded us to put others first, how much moreso does He do it? He shows no partiality in extending his mercy. Jesus himself said he would draw all men to himself. God speaks to men in a way which can be heard in the flesh and in the spirit. The reason is that the law, which has a shadow of the good things coming (Heb 10.1), is designed to speak to the flesh and constrain evil doers. God said that he would destroy Nineveh, yet he did not. He explained elsewhere that when he makes a decree to do harm, that if the people repent, he will change his decree. And if he has decreed that he wiill do good for someone, if that person turns away from God, he will change his mind on doing that good. The purpose in declaring absolute punishments, as that given to Nineveh, is because of His love which desires for all men to be saved. He speaks a language that evil men can understand. If all men come to a knowledge of Christ (Eph 4:13), and every knee bows and every tongue confesses that Jesus is Lord, there is nothing in scripture that says God will not save them all. So you are correct in saying that Christian doctrine is often spelled out in no uncertain terms, but those who hold a creed or statement of faith in higher esteem than the scriptures do a disservice to the very Kingdom of Heaven which they claim to seek and spread. Often those things people say loudest are the very things of which they are least certain. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
The word אבן stone consists of אב father and בן son. There is a bigger mystery. When Joseph had his dream (Ge 37:9 ), there were eleven stars which bowed down to him. He was the twelfth son. The twelve disciples were never meant to be counted as twelve in the mystery. Jesus was the twelfth son. Of the twelve stones on the breastplate of the priest, Jesus was the cornerstone. He was rejected by his brethren just as Joseph was. The word בנא build is the word בנ son followed by the aleph א representing separation. The builders were the sons who were separated from God. They rejected Christ. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
It is easy to see that Jesus is the Son in the story and he was speaking of the Jews. What is important is to see the difference between Matthew's account and Thomas's. I have suggested previously that Thomas was recording hints on how to read the mystery in the scriptures. We expect that Matthew's account is the one Jesus actually said, and Thomas recorded notes to help him remember how to read the scriptures. Thomas records that there were only two servants and the son, whereas Matthew records there were many servants referring to the prophets, judges, priests and kings of the Old Testament. The two servants which were 'beaten' were Jesus as well as the Son. The word נכה 'beat' also means lame. The riddle is "In what two ways was Jesus lame?" The first is that he was the legitimate king of Israel through the genealogy of Joseph. But he was a 'lame' king. Unable to perform as king in the flesh. The second is that he was a lame priest. Since he was not of the tribe of Levi he could not be a priest while alive. Only in resurrection could he become a priest like Melchizedek. So while in the flesh, he was a 'lame' priest. These are the two servants who took the beatings before the crucifixion. -
Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior
goatguy-too replied to goatguy-too's topic in Esoteric and Occult Discussion
visitors The word עלה 'aleh' or visit, also means leaf, branch, ascend, burnt offering. One of the many doctrinal divisions among Christians is the question of whether Christ died for everyone or just for the elect. The systemic exegetical problem for the church was the introduction of Greek logic to a Hebrew system of thought. Socrates would present a problem as a dilemma and by showing one proposition to be false, conclude the other was true. The problem with this method is what I call universal ignorance. You do not know that which you do not know. Although it sounds like a platitude, it is a critical piece of information when setting up a Socratic dilemma. For a dilemma to be a true dilemma, there must be two and only two possibilities AND only one of them can be true at a time. This is where universal ignorance comes to play. Though you only know of two possibilities, and it seems apparent to all that there are only two possibilities, no one can know for sure that there is not a third which lurks in the shadows, hidden from all. Is the sky blue or is it not blue. This is a simple question and Socrates would taunt you if you hesitated to answer quickly. (No I am not so old that I remember him doing so... ) But yesterday the sky was red, and we know that if we capture the sky in a jar that it has no color at all. It is a false dilemma used to set up an argument using sophistry. Socrates did it intentionally. We usually do it unwittingly. So the doctrinal division is proposed as a dilemma, but it is a false dilemma. "Did Jesus die for all men or just for the elect?" ... and Socrates taunts you for a quick choice. The problem lies in the unstated presumptions about salvation. It is presumed that if your sins are forgiven that you are 'saved'. Is it possible that some people who are forgiven are not saved? Because this option is not presented within the false dilemma, it is impossible for any of them to arrive at that conclusion. I apologize for the lengthy background, but to show that Thomas is consistent with the New Testament writers, we need take care to not be funneled into a false dilemma. The word 'know' is used of the intimate relation between a man and wife. Since the church is the virgin bride of Christ, the bride is 'fruitful and multiplying' in the spirit not in the flesh. Jesus said, "I never produced life in you". On the other side, we love him because he first loved us. (1Jo 4:19 ). So he first forgave our sins... everybody's. I can declare without hesitation that your sins are forgiven. But the question is that when he first loved you, did you love him back? Did you choose to respond to his invitation to become the bride? To some he said, "Depart from me.... you were never my bride." Now we can look at the 'visitors' in Thomas's saying. They are branches who have already been received, yet they did not respond to the invitation to dinner. Making it brief, what do we eat? The body of Christ... They refused to meditate, and ruminate on his truth. Even though they have been received, they refused to enter in. The exclusivity of Christianity is an offense to many. But the forgiveness of Christ is for all, as is the invitation to become his bride. It is not that Christ casts anyone out, but that they have refused to enter into the marriage. In response to his love, they do not love in return. Those who rejected Christ's invitation in this saying did not do so out of necessity, but because other things were more important to them. One bought a house... but Jesus prepared a mansion for him. One went to another wedding... and missed his own. Another bought a farm, but not to work it. He was renting it out. His needs were already met in the company of the one who had received him but he wanted more.