goatguy-too

The word כסף money also means desire, yearn. His desires were spent upon himself. The church; those who are called out are called the bride of Christ. Her desire is to be for her husband: The purpose of Thomas's riddle is to teach the method of riddling. Here though the hebrew words for desire are different, that is the one used in Genesis is not the one that means money, the method being displayed is another kind of riddle in scripture. Exegesis of sensus plenior is not just a practice of decryption. Riddles play with ideas. One symbol leads you into an idea which can be expressed with other symbols. The split rock is one symbol which expresses the idea of the separation of the Father and Son at the cross. That same idea is expressed by the parted water and torn veil. That isn't the best example... Jesus put off the desire of the flesh not to die.. he made his flesh limp... which is also expressed by the bruised heel of the seed of the woman and Jacob's withered thigh.

Thanks dawei. It's hard to sit through the fifth sermon in a row on tithing, or one based on the latestest self-help book. As Jesus said,

I appreciate your position. Most Christians cannot reconcile the problems in the Bible which are largely due to a hermeneutic foisted on the church by Augustine. You might check out the Gospel of Thomas thread where I am reconciling Thomas with the Bible. If you google 'sensus plenior' you will find that nearly all who write on it admit that they cannot reproduce the exegesis of the NT authors, which means they can't read the OT the same way Jesus and the apostles did. It is no wonder that they have issues which they cannot reconcile. Once you make the break from Augustine and learn the hermeneutic direct from Jesus and the apostles in the NT, many of the insurmountable issues fall away. I'd be happy to address anything which is of particular concern of yours in an other thread.

Yes. I agree. However, God is not constrained by our sophistry. When God said that he doesn't change, even Christians play the game of sophistry. When God created a void within himself, was that a change? When he became incarnate, was that a change? How bout when Jesus (God) grew up, moved around, learned things, were those changes? Of course they were. Are they what God was talking about when he said he didn't change? Of course not. No amount of sophistry changes what God intended. Such sophistry has some Christians believing that the eternal Son had the body of Jesus before creation, or that baby Jesus could fly. It makes a God who is as constrained by predestination as they say we are. It makes a dead God. But God discerns the heart. Each duality in the verse below pits the flesh against the spirit. A 'slip of the tongue/mind' I am sure falls into the category of the passing thought, and not the intention of the heart. I am sure that if/when people find themselves in the condition of being unforgivable, that they themselves intend to be there. His nature is one of mercy. He has commanded us to forgive 7 x 70, how much more is he willing to forgive? (That is a Jewish val chomer argument useful when interpreting Jewish wisdom literature). Therefor, the understanding of the unforgivable sin is not based on a verse taken out of context, and the offense trivialized, but upon an understanding of God's mercy. The unforgivable sin of blashemy is one in which the work of the Holy Spirit is rejected and continually rejected. It is only the work of the Holy Spirit which can draw you toward God. If you reject that which draws you, you cannot be drawn.

Jesus told his disciples that they had been chosen to understand his mysteries. (Mt 13:11, Mr 4:11 ) This saying is a warning. Goats are on the left and they represent the flesh, sheep are on the right representing the spirit. They have been given knowledge of the mystery and are warned not to let their flesh get in the way and puff them up with pride. The same temptation faces those today who understand the mysteries.

When there are two things they are two sides of the same thing. There will be one in bed, his spirit will live and his body will die. The undivided The word ברא in hieroglyphics is 'the son who created the heavens and the earth. The א alef is the silent letter which represents God creating the heavens and earth in silence. Jesus existed before the alef. Though the Son was fully God, and Jesus was fully God in the flesh, he had emptied himself of the properties of deity choosing not to be omnipresent. omniscient, omnipotent, etc. Yet he retained the personal characteristics of the father which are a part of personality. Light is Holiness which destroys, and darkness is Grace. If Jesus's body was destroyed in the grave, he still would be God and he would still have been holy. But he was divided, or separated from the Father on the cross in order to give grace.

The Samaritan is a watcher, one who is waiting for the fulfillment of prophecy. Jesus takes note of him because he is carrying the lamb to guard it against blemish, rather than lead it like other cattle. The picture is that Christ the Lamb of God must be killed in order for his body to be eaten... "This is my body given for you..." The disciple must enter into Christ's rest, or they will die and be judged. From the previous saying we know that Jesus is the lion of Judah who 'devours' men.

This seems to be another simple teaching where the only hidden meaning seems to be that Jesus while alive, was suggesting that he was the eternally living one who should be sought even after the cross.

Although this is similar to other teachings such as suffering for Christ's sake, secret sayings usually involve a riddle, word play, a pun or other such device. חול chul means both travail and sand which is how the second set of the children of Abraham are described. He has children like dust; i.e. without water/the word. He has children like sand of the sea shore; i.e. washed by the word/water And Children like stars; these are those who are shining in Christ/the firmament. I am not fully satisfied with this solution, though it gives a hint on how to use the multiple meanings of words in discerning sensus plenior. The simple meaning is that the one who suffered was Jesus who found life in resurrection. There just isn't any word play that I have found in that yet.

The kingdom of our Father refers to the kingdom of David in Mt 10:11. Thomas is equating the prophecy concerning the Kingdom of David with that of the Kingdom of Heaven/God. He is saying that David's kingdom is a type of the Kingdom of Heaven. The seed of the woman is Christ when interpreted singularly, and the church when interpreted as being plural. The enemy is that old liar, the serpent. We are reading the English text of a Greek manuscript written of a teaching that was done in Hebrew. We pull in the Hebrew words for the original weeds in Ge 3:18 קוץ thorns and דרדר thistles. The sub-root of קוץ means to irritate. It is used in words like abomination, wrath, impatient and awake. It is a fun riddle. In Ge 38, Judah (a shadow of God) has three sons: Er, Onan and Shelah representing Adam, Israel (the nation) and Joseph, the husband of Mary. The story which follows is a shadow of the birth of Christ. Er means awake and the verse says he was called Er or called awake. Awake is the opposite of asleep. Asleep is used to say that someone is dead. And when you are dead you return to the dust. So Er was called Awake, or he was 'called alive from the dust' confirming that he represents Adam. The story goes on to say that he was killed because of sin, as was Adam. In the story, he was made to be flesh from the dust. Paul further clarifies the riddle saying that he had a thorn in the flesh (2Co 12:7), confirming that the flesh itself is the thorn and Paul cried out... The second word from Ge 3 is דרדר whose root is דר meaning generation. Since it is repeated the weed is a generation in the flesh and the spirit. Therefor in the parable we have that the weeds are the flesh and a wicked generation. These are the things which opposed Christ. (Mt 16:4) The enemy sowed at night which, as before, is a time of grace. Though there was wickedness and sin, God did not destroy them. He allowed, within each person, a sinful flesh to grow with a faithful spirit, in the same manner that we each are goat and sheep, and old man and a new man. He also let the wicked generation grow with the faithful generation. The final lesson is that we are not to be the judges. On may look like a goat, but in the end God has purified the sheep. One may look like he is part of the wicked generation, as did the thief on the cross who mocked Jesus, but while he hung there repented and acknowledged Jesus as he asked Jesus to remember him when he came into his kingdom. (Lu 23:42)

I appreciate being able to share here. Doing so has given me an idea on how to teach others to see it. I am just messing around, but if you'd like to try 'Riddles you can solve' I am working here http://sensusplenior.net/wiki/Riddles_you_can_solve.

OK. I had to do some research on this one. It is a reference to the Jewish canon. On Tenach: The riddle refers to the books of the tenach as prophets and it's solution is significant since Thomas is an early source, it adds weight to the idea that the canonization of the Jewish Bible took place early, and endorses the canon as being accepted by Jesus, and therefore pushes the date of canonization to a very early date. From wikipedia: This is a good time to mention the nature of riddle; A riddle cannot be solved using the contents of the riddle itself. Other information must be available. This is why riddles are used to hide things. The thing must already be known. Christ can effectively be hidden in the OT by using riddles because no one knew of him. The New Testament is a record of his life and death, and once that is known, the riddles of the OT can be understood. Since my Bible is divided differently than the Tenach, there is no way I should be able to solve this riddle without the additional information onhow the Jewish Bible is divided. In this case the living prophet would have been Jesus himself. The riddle says that Jesus was the voice behind all the dead prophets.

The world is passing away. the flesh is dead. If you understand the world, you find that it is dead. In realizing that it is dead you have distinguished between the flesh and the spirit which is better than not knowing that the world is dead.

Compare with : Since they are nearly identical and the passage in Luke is not well understood we must understand hate first. In the law it is implied that the accident was an act of hate. The one chopping did not previously hate the man, but hated him in this accident. Consider the law of Love which says you put the other person first. The one chopping did not consider the safety of his fellow first, so it was not an act of Love, but of hate. It is not a feeling anymore than love is a feeling. It is the act of putting someone second, not first. Now consider the saying again, and it makes perfect sense that one should consider Christ first above all else. He gave his life for us, we can do no less in return.

compare to The change to this saying may indicate that Thomas was written earlier than Matthew, and Matthew felt it necessary to clarify the teaching by making the distinction of the 'poor in spirit'. Matthew is written in a form where what Jesus says in Matt 5 and following is parallel to what Jesus did in Matthew 8. Jesus went up a hill and said Blessed are the poor (in spirit) and then in Ch 8 he came down the hill and heals a leper. Who could be more poor in spirit than a leper? This parallel format divides Matthew into four block, which help tremendously for interpretation of his words, when they are connected to an associated action. The proper interpretation is that the law of leprosy is a key to understanding what Jesus said. The leper shaves his head as a symbol of Christ who lost his authority on the cross when the Father left him there ("Why have you forsaken me?") The leper covers his lip as a sign that his prayer has gone unanswered. ("Remove this cup...") The leper is cast outside the camp (Jesus dies outside the city) When the leper is fully covered with leprosy (a symbol of sin) he is declared clean! When Jesus bore our sin completely he was clean in resurrection. Then the clean leper goes through a ceremony like the priest because Jesus went on to be our high priest. How does this apply to men? We declare God as God, losing our authority. We cover our lip to show that until the time of repentance God has not heard our prayers (nor was he obligated to hear them). We declare that we no longer belong to the earth, we are outside the camp. And because of sin we do not belong to heaven. When we are fully undone by confessing or sin and sinfulness, we are declared clean. Then we become priests as we intercede for others. Blessed are the poor in spirit.

He said to them, "If it were beneficial, their father would beget them already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become completely profitable." This is the same teaching as: Implied is that we are as God would have us right from the womb. Only conversion of the heart matters.

Arrgh! I was on a roll. Sorry. Some keys to consider, Israel started with Jacob. Prophets in Judah probably don't count as prophets in Israel, since the nation was split. Many prophets were mentioned, but we don't know what they said, therefore they didn't 'speak'. There are a couple possibilities for the one who is alive. It could be John, who is an Old Testament prophet, was alive, and by that time Judah was known as Israel again. The other would be Jesus. 24 is two 12's which could be patriarch's and disciples. Probably not since they weren't dead yet. Help me.... ;-)

When is the rest for the dead and the new teaching of peace? It already came. Rest came through the cross, the new teaching of peace was ushered in the moment Jesus said, You have heard it said..., but I say..."

We came from the Light - in pun 'a lo khoom' the not dark or 'the light' with Elohim. We came from God. The place... - We are 'in God' since nothing can be outside of him. the light came into being - God said, "Let there be light (Gen 1:3) by itself - 'a lo khoom' from Elohim. and became manifest through their image - Jesus is the light which is the express image of God.(Heb 1:3) we are the children of light - (Joh 12:36) it is movement and repose - life and rest. Fish that swim in the water are clean, those which lie on the bottom are unclean. A fish must move through water, live in the word, to be alive. The rest is the peace which passes all understanding (Php 4:7). It is a trust in Christ.

From the Coptic we may clarify this "Blessed are the solitary one (sing) and the elect, for you (pl) will find the kingdom... The solitary one is Christ who died alone on the cross after all his friends and followers abandoned him. The elect is the church. The kingdom is 'teaching of peace'.

The house is Bethel, the same as in saying 16. The two who make peace are the Father and the Son. The mountain is the place you go to meet God. For Moses it was the mountain and the tabernacle. The word אהל means to move your tent elsewhere, it also mean tabernacle and it means 'shine'. When the Father and Son were reconciled after the cross, the place where God dwelt was changed. He now lives in the hearts of men. Where he shines. (Joh 1:4)

These are all the same riddle concerning the law of Moses and the new teaching of peace. You can't mix them. Horse = physical strength Stretch a bow = aim at a target You can't divide your physical efforts between to things requiring your effort. You can't shoot at two targets. You can't serve two master, a master is the sovereign. Old wine/grace was merely a promise of grace through the cross, the new wine (effectual grace) no longer has the old symbols. Yo ucan't pour the new teaching of peace into the framework of an old legalism. You can't fix the old system by tagging the name of Jesus to it. Beware of the Judaisers (Php 3:2)

This is a rich saying. Compare to : In what manner is John the greatest among those born of women? It is in his understanding. Eyes represent understanding. This is verified by the account of Jesus riding into Jerusalem on a donkey. Donkey = prophet... every donkey in scripture represents a prophet in figure. Female = those who don't see (understand) clearly Jesus was led by an old female donkey. Jesus was proceeded by the old prophets who did not understand fully. He rode on the young male donkey representing John who knew exactly who Jesus was. He sat on the garments/works of the disciples to say he was finished with their works. The people broke branches from the tree... Christ is the tree, we are the branches. The separated themselves from him. Rather than wave the branches in the air/spirit, they threw them to the ground to say they were a peopel of earth/flesh. They removed their own garments/works and threw them to the earth to say their works were of the flesh. What appeared to be a warm welcome was a rejection of Christ as a spiritual leader. The next day they all cried "Crucify him!". The hidden meaning tells us more than the literal. Those who become as little children are not 'born of women' but of the spirit. They have a greater understanding of the scriptures than even John had.

A good man brings forth good from his storehouse The word אוצר store house is composed of the word אור light and the letter צ which is the 'heart of the righteous man'. The word בל heart is pronounce Bal. Look familiar? It is a phonetic pun to בעל Baal which also mean 'lord' and 'man'. Baal was the god of the OT which opposed God. It is reminiscent of original sin where man is made a peer to God. Here man makes himself lord of his own heart. The letter ע represents evil. It is the preaching of holiness and grace without the cross. When the ע is added to bar, 'son', it becomes 'son of evil'. From the heart of בעל comes evil (ע).

There is possibly a riddle in here that I do not see yet, but it is the same teaching as: The plain teaching is that it is the Holy Ghost who guides you into repentance and into a relation with God. If you refuse the guide you refuse the destination.