CityHermit!

He is supposed to be an expert on British royalty, has some organization about it too. But it was recently discussed in news that he's actually an Italian-American from upstate New York. He developed his own British accent, so I guess people didn't know the difference for some time. Despite being an American, he probably does have more background knowledge on British royalty than many Britons. It's kind of ironic, also given that historically America rose out of resistance to the British crown.

Makes sense. One way to examine it is in the context of the individual, I would imagine everyone thinks about such things some time or another. There is also a context of including others and unless humanity goes extinct we assume for the most part that humanity goes on after we die as individuals. Zhuangzi is still there after his wife passes, Zhuangzi's disciples are still there after he passes. So a continuity in the living world still has a meaning. It's been speculated that not all of the chapters of Zhuangzi are written by Zhuang Zhou and that other chapters were later added by disciples or others. One of the important parts about a kind of practice is the transmission of it. I think Laozi and Zhuangzi were very aware of that. They had a grasp of history, they had an idea of where things came from, why things were how they were where they were at, and where they will go. I think that allowed them to survive when most of the other hundred schools of thought vanished, and not just survive but rival the power of the empire and be free of it when possible. Looking at history, the work and fate of various Taoists, it seems less and less likely to me that things happened coincidentally. I think they knew what they were doing.

Have you heard about Tommy from New York?

I'm curious as to why filial piety sounds Christian to you. I've just not heard it be described that way before. Minimum wage for royalty, that's an idea. I liked the story about the Yellow Emperor living in a hut, whether its myth or not.

And in Chapter 18 there are the parts with Zhuangzi and Liehzi and the skull. It seems to put a different spin on death, to say the least. Longevity and immortality aren't the same. Longevity can still end in death. Death doesn't have a prevent a good life having lived. All the same, I think many chapters do point to a kind of meditative practice towards some end or another. If not longevity, then at least dispensing with worries and the burdens that create them. In my view, and there should be some literature here and there that agree whether Taoist or not, worry and stress and the like do kill even if slowly. Lay down and live or lay down and die.

The same could be said for all kinds of people and walks of life besides royalty. I'm not even defending it one way or another but I can see why it has a bearing on national spirit. European royalty is one thing, but Japan's is allegedly unbroken and goes way way back doesn't it? It also would be different for cultures with a stronger sense of filial piety than those that don't. Chinese emperors had to pay homage to their ancestors too, exemplifying filial piety for the rest of empire. In theory at least. All that aside, in recent years I've grown to see more value in filial piety in as far as it can connect one to the genes of their ancestors, thereby affecting their expression in one's life, as well as establishing foundation for future generations that they can tap into the same. Why I say that is a whole other topic, but what I mean to say is that I think that the way societies have practiced things in the past may have been an attempt at getting to something they could not yet understand that maybe we in modern times have a better chance at grasping.

Again, the development of Chinese Medicine and Taoist practices went hand in hand. The average expected lifespan of people in a time where the practice of medicine is lacking or incomplete is sure to be less than a time where it's not. So is it really a question of what should be expected according to the standard of that time, even by Laozi and Zhuangzi?

https://terebess.hu/english/chuangtzu1.html#15 I'm going to take some bits from the chapter "the old breath and draw in the new, practicing bear-hangings and bird-stretchings, longevity his only concern - such is the life favored by the scholar who practices Induction, the man who nourishes his body, who hopes to live to be as old as P'eng-tsu." "But to attain loftiness without constraining the will; to achieve moral training without benevolence and righteousness, good order without accomplishments and fame, leisure without rivers and seas, long life without Induction; to lose everything and yet possess everything, at ease in the illimitable, where all good things come to attend - this is the Way of Heaven and earth, the Virtue of the sage. So it is said, Limpidity, silence, emptiness, inaction - these are the level of Heaven and earth, the substance of the Way and its Virtue. So it is said, The sage rests; with rest comes peaceful ease, with peaceful ease comes limpidity, and where there is ease and limpidity, care and worry cannot get at him, noxious airs cannot assault him. Therefore his Virtue is complete and his spirit unimpaired." "Roused by something outside himself, only then does he respond; pressed, only then does he move; finding he has no choice, only then does he rise up." "A man of light, he does not shine; of good faith, he keeps no promises. He sleeps without dreaming, wakes without worry. His spirit is pure and clean, his soul never wearied. In emptiness, nonbeing, and limpidity, he joins with the Virtue of Heaven." "So it is said, If the body is made to labor and take no rest, it will wear out; if the spiritual essence is taxed without cessation, it will grow weary, and weariness will bring exhaustion." So according to that translation, the chapter is called constrained in will. I quote phrases out of whole paragraphs to emphasize some distinct terms but I left that paragraph above as a whole because of the mention "constraining the will." In that paragraph it mentions "long life" without induction, induction referring to the part you mentioned about various practices which is mentioned in the snippet above the paragraph. In the same paragraph and two next snippets, terms like limpidity and inaction, or phrases like "...only then..." and "sleeps without dreaming, wakes without worry", all these basically alludes to embryonic breathing and/or Zuowang. The last snippet emphasizes not burning oneself out. One other thing, how old did Pengzi allegedly live to? Off the top of my head, something like 800+ right? And Guangchengzi, see chapter 11, 1200? It's besides the point whether these people existed or if they or anyone ever lived that long, but I mention it as a reference to your question about what Laozi and Zhuangzi consider a normal life span. Now these are levels beyond normal, whether by their standard or ours, but it still represents more references to zhenren and xian seen in Zhuangzi and later works and the encouragement to be like them. Now I also want to point out the section in chapter 18 about Zhuangzi's wife's passing. It suggests an acceptance of death, yet at the same time could subtly refer to evolution and/or metempsychosis, so basically a defiance of the limitations of death as well. This leaves room for the possibility of humanity developing into perhaps greater longevity. It is Zhuangzi after all, so it's going to be subtle and not say explicitly this or that in most cases. In any case, chapter 15 describes a practice of keeping one's life, if not extending it.

Another thing I want to add. At the time the Laozi and Zhuangzi were written, Chinese Medicine might not have been as developed as it had been by say the Han dynasty. The evolution of Taoist meditative practices may have had some correlation to that of Chinese medicine as well. I think those who pioneered the practices in the past had discovered things that they didn't immediately know what words to put with. At the same time they also probably saw value in less speech with regards to practice or cultivation of virtue, so they might have not been as eager to prioritize verbal descriptions. There's a lot to say about terminology before even considering methodology. Keep in mind that Chinese scripts and dialects also changed over time.

Lineage and some kind of (unbroken?) connection to the past has an appeal for some, especially for cultural purposes.

Didn't Yang Chengfu also have syphilis?

Probably the train. I enjoy train rides across the country. They give me a closer view to the landscape than a plane flight and even though they take longer than flying I like to use that extra time to read more. I am also very put off by invasive TSA procedures. But yeah, I'd probably take the train there. If I drove that might be a lot on my car. I have relatives, friends and family friends who have been in the area or still live there so they would be able to show me things to check out. I definitely would like to do some hiking. Well, hopefully I get to go sometime.

His was an interesting story, to me at least.

Could it be like attaining new levels not thought possible when being pushed to the limits of survival? Or when failure and loss yield new insight that continued success might not necessarily achieve? I don't know but it's an interesting thought.

I read, a lot. I said I have close to two decades of experience with the whole conspiracy theory scene/community/what have you. I asked on page 444 of the Trump thread who have been to conspiracy theory forums and no one responded. I specifically said be honest then, and left at it that. I shouldn't have assumed there would be anyone to take issue with that comment. If anything, your terminology and writing style is as a glper which is a kind of unique flavor and not inherently derogatory and I think they would see humor in what I just wrote too. If it was an honest mistake then you would fool them all the same, so don't take it the wrong way. Beyond that it doesn't make a difference to me what you believe, I don't care. Go ahead and argue with more political people, I'll laugh at the rest of you. The election was a joke, Trump is the punchline. Have fun.

Right, it's some other shit. Obviously I know what GOP is and would simply say Republican if anything if that's what I was asking.

I like the Gia-Fu Feng translation of Dao De Jing myself. There should be others worthwhile but I know that one best. For Zhang Botuan, I'm mostly familiar with the Thomas Cleary translation. I've seen another by Fabrizio Pregadio but cannot recall if I indeed read that. I got the Cleary one sooner because it was part of that big 4 volume set on classic texts. Hope that helps.

I did, in Chapter 6 of Zhuangzi and I posted the link. It's not long or difficult to read through. If it's really necessary I can copy paste the text. There are clearly things described that resemble, if not actually being, a form of meditation. I don't see why it's important to fixate on the term "meditation". Buddhism makes use of the term especially but it's not like there aren't parallels in other traditions that don't predominantly use the same terminology. Another example, Daoyin and Yoga both have a lot of stretching and posture based stuff but it's not like one could say that neither the Indians or Chinese had stretching and postures because one used different terms than the other. Meditation is a term for something that other terms can also in part describe. To elaborate, the encounter in between between Yen Hui and Confucius in chapter 6 appears to be a sort of follow up to the one in chapter 4. In the latter case Confucius is instructing Yen Hui but in the former it seems Yen Hui got a leg up on Confucius in a way to surprise him. That may be consistent with an expected critical attitude towards Confucius, so in actuality it may not be that Confucius is being described as a model teacher of "meditation" as it were. In any case, the use of figures in Zhuangzi is not all quite literal much of the time. Many characters are just that, characters. They illustrate ideas in a different style of writing than the Laozi. Looking at the names of them it should be kind of obvious. Woman Crookback for instance? There's just a lot of subtlety in it.

That reminds me, I still have to file an insurance claim with the post office for a missing package. Thanks.

One more thing, in regards to brain waves, meditation and breathing through heels reference and the like, that there is also the concept of synchronizing said brainwaves with frequencies in nature. More specifically I mean resonating frequencies of the earth, Schumann Resonance, things like that. The way I was taught about embryonic breathing was that this sort of harmony takes place during practice. I say embryonic breathing loosely, I think there's lots of terms used over the years to talk about the same sort of thing. I believe that people from more remote times expanded on these theories and practices experimentally. There's definitely a difference between how people would describe things back then compared to today.

I was shown this video many years ago of an expert archer's brainwaves being measured while taking a shot. The main point of the video was not anything about archery except that when about to take action the archer was experiencing alpha brain waves rather than beta waves. I think the idea is that when doing seemingly ordinary, or even complex, activities the more proficient ones get into a different state of mind. Not just in an abstract way but down to the physical level with brain activity. Meditation tends towards the same. I think overall whether it's an activity or sitting meditation, the state of mind is what counts.

https://terebess.hu/english/chuangtzu.html#6 There are some other references too apart from Yen Hui and Confucius. The reference in the same chapter to breathing with the heels for one.

I wouldn't be surprised if the researchers and/or government were pushing her to the limit because of their own interests while not looking out for hers. I heard that in later years she lost her ability to demonstrate at least partially if not completely, from burnout if anything.

It was in another passage with Yen Hui and Confucius where Yen Hui describes sitting and forgetting (Zuowang), in Chapter 6 I believe.

I know right?