voidisyinyang

Neidan is the internal yin elixir, waidan is the external yang elixir.

If you accuse me of something please provide some evidence. Otherwise you're making a false accusation. A moderator is supposed to call that b.s. Now if I accuse someone of being a liar then I provide evidence - that is fair debate. Now I said - from the original link provided. Is that too complicated for you? http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/asie_0766-1177_1989_num_5_1_947 Apparently so or, instead of willful ignorance, you would have read the link and constructively posted some of the information. I'll do that for you. and

Sitting in half lotus of course will cause weakness But full lotus is way different. http://laoziacademy.us/method2.htm Wang Liping on full lotus. Chunyi says also if you want to see if someone is a real teacher - see how long they can sit in full lotus in ease, no movement. For Wang Liping at age 9 - he had too much movement in full lotus - so his teachers tied him down and he went 4 hours with no movement and that opened up his channels.

From that first link you posted - neidan originally refers to the "External pill" and so it's application is limited. It refers to the purification of the mundane energy - but nevertheless it's still mundane energy. I did a blog post on this actually. http://innersoundqigong.blogspot.com/2015/06/on-moving-of-yin-and-yan-exercise.html That's internal pill - but it's the yin elixir. hold on. yeah internal pill - but the first stage while the 2nd stage is weidan as external pill for immortality.

oh yeah Neidan is definitely a trendy Song dynasty marketing term. http://taocurrents.org/category/sexual-practice/

Wow that first chapter of Wang Liping's rocks - it is definitely the real training and since he says to sit 6 hours full lotus to restore the yuan qi - that indicates it's also the real training.

http://neigongforum.com/threads/wang-lipings-book-ling-bao-tong-zhi-neng-nei-gong-shu-legit-or-not.295/ Zoom discussing Wang Liping's instruction manual.

http://taijidandao.blogspot.com/ Quote

https://books.google.com/books?id=jtCzNFOhd5UC&pg=SA16-PA17&lpg=SA16-PA17&dq=qigong+master+wang+liping+demonstration+of+abilities&source=bl&ots=2updeoC3k1&sig=AllLNNpCra4DdpY5EeG4GD_C1AQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=d0RzVe6VOcGisAXMuIHYBQ&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=qigong%20master%20wang%20liping%20demonstration%20of%20abilities&f=false This googlebook link has a great overview of the "official" recognition of both qigong and Wang Liping So Wang Liping was part of the Haidan Qigong Research Institute - leading the "Traditional Scholarship and Pedagogy Research Unit."

Here in this homepage there is a photo of Dragon Gate Master Wang Liping: Here is other photo of Master Wang Liping http://www.longbao.de/qigong/intro.php a german site - maybe Zoom can elucidate.

I know this thread is supposed to be about Wang Liping but does anyone think it was an accident that the chopstick John Chang broke off had the splinter hit the center of the forehead of the only female in the group? A white female also. Just saying - that the center of the forehead is an important acupuncture point. even having blood drawn may have been efficacious - just like the other fire starting qigong master also draws out toxins via blood.

https://books.google.com/books?id=6wVBx9yriTUC&pg=PA293&lpg=PA293&dq=gordon+white+kiss+of+the+yogini+hugh+b.+urban&source=bl&ots=ulfGT-C6PH&sig=cZ3-H4erH9dPEBURzeleLQw5FMY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gSlzVd_LLonAtQWxkIGIBw&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=gordon%20white%20&f=false Yeah so I see Hugh B. Urban making your point regarding Gordon White. http://www.academia.edu/9972561/Kiss_of_the_Yogini_Tantric_Sex_in_Its_South_Asian_Context_review Agreed. Again transcultural study is more valuable in this day - There's no point in people practicing willful ignorance except of course to maintain their career funding for ivory chair "expertise" based on selective specialization.

I read Gordon White's book - do you have any specific quotes? The book is focused on Western Asia as tantra practice. The book exposes the term "lunar love digit" referring to the technique of sucking the clitoris to swallowing the female fluids as tantra practice. So you are saying that then actual celibacy is a later practice than this earlier tantra practice? Again the Bushmen original human culture disproves that as I've documented. Also the techniques of celibacy are well detailed in the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality and it's early source book the Huiming Ching - Eva Wong's translation is more accessible. As for the tantra practices in Gordon White's book - those Western Asia early empires were based on expansion through warfare - specifically chariot warfare using iron technology. Around 1200 BCE in India iron became more valuable than silver because of iron's use for warfare - and so silver as representing the lunar female energy was downgraded. This is represented in the Solar dynasty mass sacrifice ritual of creating altars where the female lunar circular altar has to be "squared" as the same area of the male solar square altar. That's documented by Abraham Seidenberg. You might want to read my research on tantra in my book "Alchemy of Rainbow Heart Music" I'll pull the Gordon White quotes for you. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gearslutz.com%2Fboard%2Fattachments%2Fmoan-zone%2F279031d1330198691-retune-your-music-444-old-tuning-standard-alchemy-rainbow-heart-music.pdf&ei=FSlzVaSfMYyfsAXyzYGgDw&usg=AFQjCNHfPsV52pcAYbRCVTLkEboCjazrng&bvm=bv.95039771,d.b2w&cad=rja pdf link Also you can find the Bushmen books in there. Although I read Ropes to God later so it's not in there.

http://wenku.baidu.com/view/62caaaf90242a8956bece4ed.html that's the link for your above quote. Fangshu Xuanzhong Cuizuan (The Collected and Edited Hinges among the Dark Pivots for the Art of the Chamber, 989 AD) (Fangshu,hereafter)

and so the first documented used of Neidan as a term is in the Song dynasty!

Now it makes sense - o.k. so that is from the Tang Dynasty - 818 AD. http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/asie_0766-1177_1989_num_5_1_947#

and and So the book of your school's founder actually corroborates Taoist Yoga. Makes sense since the latter is based on the former.

So according to the secret Neidan school this means the person has already lost the energy? Hilarious! and Are the examples of the Emptiness practice at Midnight. and then to store up the energy there must be sublimation of the energy to prevent its loss:

Here's the lie by ClosedDao: What is the sentence?

Here is Eva Wong's summary of your founder's book: Now are you really telling me that the procreative energy leaking out of the body does not refer to ejaculation? Only an idiot or a blatant liar would not understand that the leakage refers to ejaculation. Sure there are other forms of leakage but she is referring to ejaculation and says that is a main point of the book. That is referring to the generative fluid - ejaculation. What about the diagram that shows the path of the leakage? p. 24 So we have something flows out of the path from the inside cavity to the outside - and that path is the same path as ejaculation! Gee I wonder what it is referring to? p. 62 p. 62. that's exactly what Taoist Yoga teaches and Taoist Yoga is based on this book - your school's founder.

BTw - Taoist Texts never tried to get me to practice something - that is also a lie. He asked me what I thought of something. Big difference. Do you always twist words around like that? It seems like it. What's your take on it? not I want you to practice it. So you're caught lying again - twisting the meaning of words.

This is the "necessary but not sufficient" lie that I keep reading when you type your responses. I already pointed out that lie being made about the Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality book. physical celibacy is necessary but not sufficient. It's a very squirmy lie to somehow confuse these conditions. In the Taoist Yoga book you claimed that when the practitioner has the "external kidneys" rise up that means they are losing energy. I told you that was a lie and I proved that was a lie. The energy is lost if when the external kidneys rise up then the person has evil thoughts and so the energy is converted into generative fluid and lost out of the body. http://www.scribd.com/doc/96442629/Liu-Hua-Yang-Eva-Wong-Cultivating-the-Energy-of-Life#scribd let's see how Eva Wong translates your founder's words. haha. So far I find nothing that is different than the Taoist Yoga book.

It is from the book "Tricksters and Trancers" just as I had thought. Tricksters and Trancers: Bushman Religion and Society. Bloomington: Indiana University Press. 288pp. https://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/africa_today/v047/47.3upton.html So here are the quotes: Tricksters and trancers "Yet another male 'implement' the Hai//om (as well as Khoekhoe) maidens are reported to have handed at initiation, was the testicles of the adolescent men in the camp. (Schapera 1930: 121, citing Fourier 1925/6: 58), in order to prevent their swelling in the event of some future contagion with menstrual blood." p. 175, Tricksters and Trancers. Now the above quote should keep in mind that that the San Hai//om got this ritual from the Khoekhoe who are Khoi and more influenced by the Black Bantus. But also it is during the female Eland Bull menstruation ritual, based on the same trance music from before human language was invented, that creates an inversion of female power roles. The female at this first menstruation is first exposed to an erotic yet satirical dance of the females exposing their backsides while the older males dance behind the females' backsides, imitating the mating of the Eland. During this dance the rest of the males of the Bushmen have to leave the village since they are not allowed to see the most erotic part of the female body, the backsides, in public. And so after the female menstruation ritual - then males are not supposed to have contract with females while they are menstruating - the males are out hunting. Then when the females are ovulating - this is the Full Moon all night trance dance by the males while the females are singing. P. 175 Tricksters and Trancers. And so what's the overall point here? well in modern society males are not trained to be real males whereas in the original human culture - the N/om is considered to have female origins - and N/om is the source of all energy of reality also. And so even the children of the Bushmen culture are trained from an early age that the spiritual trance dance is the most important aspect of what it means to be human - and yet it is gone from modern culture. The "staying power" of the male during the trance dance is the key. As I posted - it is the Quick Fire method of deep fast abdominal breathing (called Reverse Breathing) - that turns the generative fluid back into yin jing energy (kundalini blissful heat) that sublimates up the spine. In modern society we don't understand the connection between cerebrospinal fluid and celibacy. Also the female at menstruation - her power to suck up the male energy - is also related to the N/om as both a life taker and life giver energy.

That Spinal Serpent article is good in so much it elucidates the Platonic knowledge - or Pre-Socratic Orphic knowledge of kundalini energy - the Aion up the spine. But as for Platonic ideas somehow spreading to China - via India I guess - this is silly because all this stuff comes from Africa and spread around the world via shamanic cultures out of Africa. So the end of the article gives one quote from Lorna Marshall and leaves it at that! In fact celibacy training was well known for the original human culture which practices the same trance dance music from before human language was invented! Instead the author writes it off as "pre-history" but these people are still alive as spiritual masters as Dr. Bradford Keeney's work has detailed in several books on the Bushmen healing culture - the Ropes to God is probably the best. But there's half a dozen good books on Bushmen spiritual healing training - its' called Tshoma - the males go off for a month of fasting and trance dancing and this is focused on the young males who are celibate - the idea being to transform their life force energy. So the young females are first menstruation are considered to be the strongest source of life force energy. On the contrary - it's honoring that this power of N/om - boiling energy of the stomach - is actually of female origin. But the females do rely on the males to hunt and so provide iron which is lost through menstruation - and so there are taboos already about females avoiding males when females are menstruating - but the males are out hunting. Meanwhile during full moon the males trance dance all night to suck in and transform the female N/om energy - and send it back to the females as spirit energy - via !Kia trance healing. This ability is the same level as the qigong masters (insert fancy Chinese term here). I have direct quotes from the Bushmen saying that the power of the spiritual energy is based on the "staying power" of the males - aka celibacy.

I have found no evidence that it is neidan and Taoist Yoga gives lots of specifics why it is the worst problem in Neidan training. Again any thoughts about reproduction cause the yuan qi to shoot down the spine - from the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality - the pineal gland - and then deconverts the Ocean of Qi - the yin jing - into generative fluid. The same thoughts also cause the Heart's Fire aka the dragon yin qi to shoot out of the eyes via the Yuan Shen. So you get the reverse small universe as loss of energy. So even if there is no loss of generative fluid - the yuan qi is being deconverted back into yin qi and lost out of the eyes or body into the female. Meanwhile when the female climaxes, the perineum of the male sucks in the lust lower emotional yin jing energy of the female along with her lust yuan shen - and so it is stored in the body as a lower emotional holographic blockage - or what's the fancy Chinese term for that? A Yin Gui? - a ghost blockage. Yeah I did that path and so I did become a Ghost Immortal. What happens is that when the Yuan Qi is used up then it no longer can hold the yin qi from shooting out of the eyes via the yuan shen. So then the person becomes dependent on postnatal sources of energy - food or the yin jing of people around them - and the only way to fix that is 6 hours a day of Emptiness meditation, as Wang Liping says - full lotus on hard surface to restore the Yuan Qi. I did the tantra practice doing 5 to 10 mutual climaxes a day in full lotus - with females - for about 8 years - and so I know the limits of the practice. It is a catalyst to clear out lower emotional blockages and it does enable activation of the yang qi energy by opening up the heart. This is called Emptying out the Realm of Desire and the lower realm of form - in Mahayana Buddhism - Master Nan, Huai-chin and Bill Bodri detail the limits of tantra. So then at that point - unless the female also goes deep into Emptiness and basically you are doing spiritual cultivation together whereby she is a dakini - then otherwise the limitation of tantra has been achieved. It is hardly any yang qi cultivated - because you need total purification of the jing energy. What happens is that as long as the yin qi is going up the front of the body and out of the skull into the female - as it does through desire and lust - then it will always also pull up the lower body blockages - the anaerobic bacteria that leaches out of the skull - and so this is why tantra is dirty. The energy is supposed to go down the front of the body - not up the front of the body. I suppose in the practices you are referring to - I read a description yesterday of the aristocracy in China with all the concubines and mistresses, etc. - doing tantra - and so the male in that case would supposedly just be taking in the female's energy without losing his own energy. I suppose that is possible but personally I would not want to do that as it is energy vampirism - feeding and stealing other people's energy. I was taught you always give people energy first when you are healing them and so that is what I always did. But again if you keep giving out the yin qi energy - the problem is that it takes a lot of yin jing to make yin qi and so the energy you are taking in is not the same value as the energy you are giving out - so you lose energy over time. So still I do know of male pervs who want to take energy all the time - but since they are not sublimating it then it never goes past yin jing energy for them and they just have to ejaculate it back out again. So I suppose it is possible to just keep feeding off female energy while sublimating it up - but again the real practice has to be based on True Intention which is Emptiness meditation through purification - and so the bad intention of taking someone's energy on its own would be against the real practice which arises from virtue or Te of the heart-mind. Still yes you can use tantra for healing out lower emotional blockages - and such blockages are also the main source of physical illness I think. Western science is proving more and more that stress is the main cause behind chronic disease which is the main killer in the U.S. And what is stress really - but from male ejaculation addiction which spikes the cortisol and our culture is based on that problem. I mean the teacher I have mainly experienced said it's all good, better and best. For example he told a story of how a couple in his class were using bad intentions to take his energy. Instead of fighting them he just let them take as much energy as they wanted since he can just fill it up as fast as they take it. So what happens is then the couple has to face their experiential truth that the source of the energy is indeed unlimited and so their mentality of trying to take from someone else is wrong - because the energy is not some zero-sum game of winners and losers. But he said he doesn't practice tantra because you take in too much bad energy and then the other qigong master had to clear out the blockages I had taken in. When he did so he said, "interesting." A few months later I asked him what he was referring to and what he had picked up. He said, "all the women." haha. Indeed I used to post stories about my daily tantra experiences and I could have posted many more. Even still when the moon is full I get chased around by females wanting my qi energy. I feel bad if I try to just "conserve" my energy because I know that when females climax they sublimate their energy, whereas when males ejaculate it spikes the stress level. So the original human culture was against "Hoarding the N/om" and the energy was supposed to be used for healing the females. I think Neidan originated from males breaking away from the communal trance dance shamanism and then the males building up the yang shen abilities. This problem is described in the original human cultures. Alchemy first originated out of Ethiopia and then spread to Egypt and the rest of the world from there. So to build up energy is very difficult. I know in the 1980s in China the females in public were not supposed to initiate conversation with the males. And so even during the qigong fever period the gender relations were "traditional" or in the eyes of 2nd Wave feminism - sexist. So when I was building up my energy I was basically harassed - females staring at my genitals and then the reproductive organ would leap up into erection. haha. I still get that sometimes or at least get hit on a lot and chased down. I know some females who have very strong techniques to suck up yin jing energy - basically masturbating while staring at me and standing up. So I tend to think that the Neidan path for immortality relies on basically misogyny since you have to hoard the energy so much. At the same time - the females will chase down the males to get their energy. haha. On the other hand the modern female, what I call the techno-feminist, is basically trying to be like a male. So then they tend to cut off that part of themselves - the 2nd wave feminist movement tried to teach that males were not needed. Eva Wong's English translation of a Nei Dan (Daoist Internal Alchemy) classic, the Chung-Lü Ch'uan-Tao Chi Regarding the techniques of the bedroom chamber it says: So the external pill refers to the tantra practice. It has to be ultimately rejected for the internal pill method. So at best the external pill tantra method can be used to restore the mundane essence but not the primordial essence. Once the mundane essence is filled up and the yang vapor emerges then the internal pill method has to be relied on. And most people never even fill up the mundane essence but I can state that after 4 to 6 months of celibacy then if the qi does leave the lower tan tien it converts back to generative fluid and if that fluid is lost - it is a lot of fluid. On the other hand if the Quick Fire method is used then the fluid can be converted back into yin jing energy. Then a lot of Emptiness meditation is required to restore the mundane generative essence - not to mention the primordial prenatal or yuan jing as the real "internal pill" for neidan.