voidisyinyang

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Everything posted by voidisyinyang

  1. Filling up the lower Dan Tien- How and Why

    Too bad u can't name him. Then we'd know what ur talking about. But i respect ur need for secrets.
  2. http://www.vox.com/2015/4/1/8325483/orgasms-science check out the image on this site - the secret of the vagus nerve directly connects to the reproductive organs. So you want the vagus nerve orgasm - not the prostate since with prostate you don't sublimate the energy up the spine. Check out Dr. Lin Taoist sex site -
  3. Question about sex practices.

    I did this but didn't know of the results. You have to study the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" to understand. Every thought about reproduction causes the yuan qi of the pineal gland to shoot down the spine to turn the Ocean of Qi (yin qi) into reproductive fluid. So what the female is attracted to is actually the yin qi energy (yang jing) which emanates out of the eyes as the Heart's Fire (the green dragon energy). It's the irony of alchemy that until you fill the lower tan tien with yin qi - then the dragon of the heart remains hidden in yin form and the yang of the lower tan tien also remains hidden. Once the yin qi is filled up in the lower tan tien then the dragon turns from green dragon (the yin qi of the liver) into red dragon of the heart as yang qi energy (yuan qi). So that's why a pure heart is the fastest way to activate the yuan qi. The irony being that you increase your yin qi and then with your eye's open it causes females to be attracted to you. You falsely think this is activating your qi energy - but instead it is causing you to deconvert your yuan qi into more yin qi. So then the yuan qi turned into yin qi which is then turned into reproductive fluid - which is then sublimated as internal orgasm - is actually sublimated UP THE FRONT CHANNEL and shot out of the eyes as more yin qi energy. So you are actually continually burning off yuan qi and converting it into yin qi and shooting it out of the eyes via the pineal gland. this is called the false fire of the heart - again it's explained in Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality - and it's the number one cause of failure in the training. Basically the more you try to build up your lower tan tien energy then the more chicks will be attracted to you. Basically that just means you are speeding up the deconversion of your yuan qi into yin qi and then into reproductive fluid which is sublimated and shot back into the females as yin qi energy. You take in the female yin qi energy when they climax but again you just turn it back into yin qi. So as tantra you can work this as a catalyst to convert the negative lower emotions into blissful love energy - but it is limited as the lower realm of form (the opening of the heart to just start to activate the yuan qi energy). So then once you have the mutual heart qi love energy through mutual climaxes over and over - in fact although your yuan qi is activated it is only because you are burning it off so directly - that you feel it directly. So at that point you have achieved the Immortal Ghost status. Congratulations. haha. Trust me - I burned through college females. But you have to first transmit into the female the higher frequency of your yin qi energy which then activates their vagus nerve and when they climax it feeds in their yin qi energy into you. That process depends on your first lowering the frequency of your yuan qi into yin qi energy and reversing it - so it goes DOWN THE BACK CHANNEL AND UP THE FRONT. It is a continual loss of energy - despite it being a catalyst of energy transformation. It's a blissful path to be sure and it burns off the other negative emotions - sadness, worry, fear, anger - converting them into the overexcitement of heart-love - but what get's lost is the actual spiritual power of the true Emptiness that is formless - the true unconditional love energy. The sex lust energy as romantic overexcitement or passion of the heart - that is still a lower emotion and so it's not the unconditional love energy of yuan qi - it relies on it but burns it off and so in the end you have to rebuild the yuan qi energy by focusing on Emptiness only. You will burn off serious yuan qi doing this and it's very difficult to restore yuan jing from just pure meditation and food. The yuan jing is restored as the inner copulation of Green Dragon (yin qi of the liver) with White Tiger of the lungs (which creates the salvia ambrosia). The tantra practice is based on psychic energy - not the real spiritual energy of alchemy training. So you can think of tantra as like a rocket booster - it definitely burns off a lot of energy fast and it's a lot of fun - but unless you actually escape orbit and go into permanent spiritual free gravity - then you're going to fall back to earth at increased acceleration and vaporize in the atmosphere.
  4. neidan for dummies?

    Yet the real masters refuse mma youtube fights. Hilarious.joe rogaine continues to belittle qi fighting. Too bad a haidan doesn't go mma. Just a keanu reeves wire flick i guess.
  5. Pre-Heaven Qi, lost forever?

    Yes qigong masters do yuan qi healings this way. Deep heart on the right side is pinhole to the universe.
  6. Riding the Phoenix to Penglai

    That doesn't have to be the case. The Quick Fire method is referred to in the HuiMing Ching which the Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality book relies on. Only the Quick Fire method has the power to convert the reproductive fluid back into yin jing energy (hormones). So the Quick Fire method is the standing active exercise - the thighs parallel to ground ideally - so when the legs are vibrating 7 times per second this is the Theta REM brain wave that activates the Yuan Qi of the heart. The deep breathing activates the vagus nerve which then sublimates the cerebrospinal fluid up to the brain - including the serotonin of the lower body. At ejaculation the dopamine energy is switched as a vagus nerve trigger to the stress sympathetic nervous system that spikes the cortisol stress hormone. So internal orgasm does not have that ejaculation switch - instead it is an internal emission that stays in the vagus nerve, just as with female orgasm. When the hormones as yin jing energy "feed the brain" which is the pineal gland, as the emitter of yuan qi, converting or ionizing the hormones into yin qi or yang jing energy. Then through Emptiness meditation purification the yuan shen that normally emits out of the eyes (but is turned around towards the pineal gland) is then increased in energy by the increased energy from the pineal gland. This overflow of cerebrospinal fluid then activates the left side vagus nerve which goes to the right side of the heart which is the source of the Yuan Qi energy, thereby increasing the yuan qi. This is also referred to as the Green Dragon and White Tiger copulation since the Green Dragon is from the eyes closed in meditation - the yuan shen returns to the liver (green dragon) and the yuan shen at this stage converts the yin jing into yang jing - yin qi energy. So it is the power of the Green Dragon that then converts the reproductive fluid into yin qi energy. The White Tiger is the yuan jing energy being restored. Master Wang Liping says it takes 6 hours of full lotus a day for a year to restore yuan jing energy. That fusion is the ambrosia in the cerebrospinal fluid now ionized with qi and shen energy - and it flows out of the sinus cavity by the tongue against the roof of the mouth which activates the vagus nerve. This ambrosia is swallowed and the qi and shen then is absorbed into the lower tan tien - and that is how the yuan jing energy is increased and how the internal heat is increased - the tummo or N/om energy. The anal flexing is the lower magpie bridge that like the tongue against the roof of the mouth, connects the front and back channels to also sublimate the reproductive fluid back into yin jing (hormonal) energy. So this is another reason why the standing active exercise is crucial since it flexes the largest muscle in the body - the glutes.
  7. neidan for dummies?

    Taoist yoga alchemy and immortality
  8. Is this pure yang?

    Master yao of shaolin does that to bananas unopened. People open up to rainbow inside colors. Quantum gradients like in c.d. rainbows.
  9. apocalypse confirmed by science

    Extinction of species is part of colonial genocide and industrialization which is completely based on the concept of "private property" - so this is a top down global corporate elite "development" plan that enforces "private property" worldwide - for resource extraction. Earth has lost half of its wildlife in the past 40 years, says WWF http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/29/earth-lost-50-wildlife-in-40-years-wwfPeople are very mind-controlled about what "private property" is - a corporation has the fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits and that is done by extracting resources and turning them into synthetic industrial products. Western mathematics inherently kills life by relying on symmetric measurements of spacetime whereas life relies on complementary opposites - as quantum physics rediscovered. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAAahUKEwjWvtO9vIbHAhVFHx4KHaevB4E&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwhatislife.stanford.edu%2FLoCo_files%2FWhat-is-Life.pdf&ei=8v27Vdb9O8W-eKffnogI&usg=AFQjCNEyM8UKB2r-7t8WyxJNGUI2x6oiBw&sig2=k7oBmvCGjBJzPDf3mtJd0A&bvm=bv.99261572,d.dmo&cad=rja What is Life by Erwin Shrodinger, Quantum Physicist. So if you apply quantum physics to economics you get this: The Environmental Endgame: Mainstream Economics, Ecological Disaster, and Human Survival https://books.google.com/books?id=8PnclYIHgpAC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=the+end+game+nadeau+species+extinction&source=bl&ots=slmAp4Hh1K&sig=Hpdmi9ervPWUKBcb9mTrmIfogMg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAGoVChMIo7TN27yGxwIVhxkeCh222QKj#v=onepage&q=the%20end%20game%20nadeau%20species%20extinction&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=BdThBQAAQBAJ&pg=PT365&lpg=PT365&dq=property+rights+species+extinction+corporate+rule&source=bl&ots=aEX8dvN9zE&sig=OR1n7IUc5yvijRQl1-1p8IiJOP0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCGoVChMIooGel7uGxwIVytWACh21JQFK#v=onepage&q=property%20rights%20species%20extinction%20corporate%20rule&f=false So for example consider pesticide use - the corporate "private property" industrialists control the governments to stop any bans on pesticide use despite their destruction of ecological life. Who Rules the Earth?: How Social Rules Shape Our Planet and Our LivesOxford University Press, Feb 6, 2015 So for example if a private property wants to build a Golf Course that threatens an endangered species - then you need a lawsuit to stop it. But under the World Trade Organization if a country like El Salvador bans a mining company - the company, as private property, can sue for LOST PROFITS - so that El Salvador would have to pay the company because it was not able to mine! That is how messed up the concept of private property is - it assumes that profits need to be maximized and completely turns democracy around by the corporate as a "person" claiming to be protected by the bill of rights! The reason this technocratic fascism exists is because of Plato - the Greek Miracle has environmental destruction built right into Western mathematics which redefines spacetime in a commodified symmetric "contained" infinity. Life is inherently based on an open infinity to take and create new energy as "negentropy." Private property inherently kills life. The fact is society as a whole has to fundamentally redefine its basic definition of reality. Taoism does that when it's properly understood. http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_round_up/2305463/nepals_year_of_zero_poaching.html Nepal had zero poaching - not based on private property but based on a national priority that had strong support of all levels of society. The poaching on animals whether in Africa or Latin America or in the U.S., etc. is driven by poverty of people that is a top-down effect of genocidal colonialism. So in Costa Rica they have a national program to pay farmers to save their trees. These are poor farmers because of U.S. imperialism enforcing huge monocultural farms that take the best land for export products to the U.S. - bananas, pineapples, coffee, etc. relying on pesticides that kill off the crocodiles, birds, etc. That's the same situation worldwide - http://www.amazon.com/Game-Changer-Animal-Africas-Wildlife/dp/0520266269 So yeah you should hire local people to be paid workers to protect the wildlife and also to be compensated for loss of livestock from tigers or wolves, etc. But wolves should still be protected as endangered species - the recent delisting of wolves is a perfect example of "private property" trumping the protection of a species. https://www.animallaw.info/article/crying-wolf-unlawful-delisting-northern-rocky-mountain-gray-wolves-endangered-species-act So what is working to save the wolves? A citizen coalition that does preventative monitoring of the wild wolves - to do preventative distraction - to keep the wolves away from the livestock. http://earthjustice.org/features/campaigns/wolves-in-danger-timeline-milestones fortunately lawsuits have stopped some of this "private property" damage against wolves. Say No To Palm Oil | Whats The Issuewww.saynotopalmoil.com/Whats_the_issue.php This large-scale deforestation is pushing many species to extinction, and findings show that if nothing changes species like the orangutan could become extinct ... So again it is these huge corporate neo-colonial "development" projects as private property. Palm Oil in Sumatra, Malaysia - supplies much of Westernized food in grocery stores. Mining projects, dams, huge monoculture agri-business farms, etc.
  10. Closing practices, spirals, principles

    The qi mainly returns to the lower tan tien via the "ambrosia" or nectar - there is a long alchemy discussion of this - I posted several citations. That is called "restoring the yuan jing" - which is really empowered from the yuan qi. Essentially the pineal gland is the source of the Yuan Qi - emanating out of the right side of the heart to the pineal gland. The yuan shen emanates out of the left side of the heart to the front of the brain and out of the eyes. When the jing is sublimated via the cerebrospinal fluid as the MCO practice it increases the qi of the pineal gland which then increases the yuan shen and this creates the "ambrosia" - the qi-infused cerebrospinal fluid which then, from the increased pressure, flows out of the sinus cavity. So then the tongue against the roof of the mouth activates the vagus nerve - as this causes increased salvia flow (now the cerebrospinal fluid of the sinus cavity infused with qi). So that is swallowed and the qi is then absorbed from this ambrosia which is why you're not supposed to eat or drink a half hour after practice as that heat in the lower tan tien is the qi being absorbed through the stomach. As for the spiraling - the left hand is yuan shen and the right hand is yuan qi so - this is for males - you put the yuan qi over the yuan shen because the yuan qi is what guides the yuan shen and gives the yuan shen force and "packs" it into the lower tan tien. So the spiraling is that process of the yuan qi (yang) and yuan shen (yin) getting concentrated - as the meditation deepens then you go into a deep serenity of a deeper cell of the lower tan tien - this is detailed in the Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality book.
  11. apocalypse confirmed by science

    That's a lie. What Killed the Great Beasts of North America? http://news.sciencemag.org/archaeology/2014/01/what-killed-great-beasts-north-america from my masters thesis: http://reocities.com/Area51/starship/9201/epicenters/restoring-logos.html
  12. .

    I've had the center of the hands pulsating with qi and then telekinesis from the center of the hands - the qi extending out moving coins up a metal box from a distance. The burning would, imo, indicate shen as laser energy - as the original qigong master shares his experience of Master Yao at Shaolin burning off his bone spurs on his spine with his hands - after Master Yao also light things on fire with his eyes. Lasers create fire as focused concentrated - biophoton light of the same frequency. The Bushmen also describe this laser trance - where the eyes have to be perfectly still. So like for Master Yan Xin he was tested to create gamma rays from his healing qi - which indicates electromagnetic energy so strong it would transmute and create new physical matter. It is hypothesized this is how bigu works in the lower tan tien - the ability to go without food and water as I went 8 days on just half a glass of water yet my energy increased. That's when I had the pulsating of the palms of the hands along with the center of the feet and the top of skull soft and pulsating with qi.
  13. Is this pure yang?

    the final stage of immortal body is to pulverize the physical body as the final remnants of yin qi and then the yang body turns into formless qi or yuan qi and yuan shen unified - that spreads out into the universe. When it coalesces back into physical form it turns into yuan jing. So it goes yin jing into yang jing (yin qi) into yang qi (yin shen) into yang shen (yin jing) and that cycle is eternal as the Emptiness.
  14. apocalypse confirmed by science

    No - in Africa and the U.S. it was the white genocidal colonialists who did massive slaughter of the wildlife. The buffalo were (almost) wiped out because the whites knew the Indians were dependent on the buffalo. http://surface.syr.edu/socsci_etd/119/
  15. apocalypse confirmed by science

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/15/climate-change-denial-florida--global-warming-naomi-oreskes-interview It's truly amazing how mind-controlled people in the U.S. are by the corporate "Junk science" hacks - as the new documentary "Merchants oF Doubt" reveal. We're talking Nazi Germany level of mind-control - follow the fascist corporate elite lies type of mind control. Quite literally the same "experts" who proclaimed that smoking was healthy - are the same ones who get the media to present global warming as a hoax as an equal opportunity argument. you all have been had! As for the tigers left in the wild. I'm currently reading "Tigers in Red Weather" by Padel http://www.theguardian.com/books/2005/jun/25/featuresreviews.guardianreview22 it's a fascinating yet slow read as she travels the last wild tiger areas around the world. In the last 40 years 50% of wildlife has been killed off - that's just in my life time. We live in an amazing time that most humans are not even "aware" of what is going on - yet we are in the "information" age. Truly amazing. That does not include all the other environmental crisis issues - but it's all tied in with global corporate elite mind control. I have studied and acted on these issues for 25 years.
  16. Do-Ohm Up the Yin-Yang

    http://www.amazon.com/Do-Ohm-Up-Yin-Yang-Spiritual-Training-ebook/dp/B012Z45TR2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438268588&sr=8-1&keywords=do-ohm+up+the+yin-yang that's the title of my newly published book on Amazon - if you click the preview it takes you to my blog - it's basically the updates on my Devil's Interval research.
  17. Daois as an offshot of Early Buddhism

    Zhongdong - you see some connection between Godel and Taoism? that's hilarious! A.K. Dewdney, Beyond reason: eight great problems that reveal the limits of science (Wiley, 2004), p. 139. Math Professor A.K. Dewdney states in his book Beyond Reason that one interpretation of Godel’s incompleteness theorem based on Cantor is that math is “inconsistent.” Godel, as mathematician A.K. Dewdney points out, shows math - symmetrical logic (not Taoism) - is either incomplete or "inherently inconsistent." That's not a judgement against math - it's a logical truth! http://www.iep.utm.edu/math-inc/ Godel is based on Western math - nothing to do with Taoism. As for the "pre-established harmony" of arithmetic - that is NOT the pre-established disharmony from syntactic representation (geometry) that Borzacchini is focused on - his music analysis. You keep claiming he's not talking about the square root of two - but I've already detailed that he is - incommensurability is about the square root of two. Incommensurability is based on syntactic representation - that is the disharmonic foundation he is talking about. It's also the inherent inconsistency that Godel proved. Or as Bertrand Russell stated the "real numbers are a convenient fiction." You can say Godel was more like a Jainist since Godel starved himself to death like the Jains did. Luigi Borzacchini. LIke I said - I've corresponded with him several times - he said my math was good. O.K. so there's three references to Borzacchini using the term "pre-established disharmony" - all deal with irrational geometric magnitude as the combination of arithmetic with syntactic representation. Not JUST arithmetic. O.K. so nothing about arithmetic here - clearly modern science is based on the syntactic paradigm. http://www.dm.uniba.it/~psiche/
  18. Daois as an offshot of Early Buddhism

    I don't agree about the symbols of western math being played around. They are inherently applied. Thats the big lie that there's pure math.
  19. Xian Tian Fusion - Can anyone describe it?

    Do u daeluin have any more corroboration that primordial nature is yuan jing? I thought primordial nature is what taoist yoga book calls essential nature as the first half of the training, the lunar yuan shen activated thru the tai chi. So the lower tan tien as the dragon cavity is replenished with yuan jing so that the yuan qi is activated in the middle tan tien as the mysterious pass manifesting the tai chi of the cavity of original spirit, the upper tan tien. What's the difference between precelestial fire and water and yuan shi and yuan qi. Isn't yuan qi the yang in the yin of the water and yuan shen is the yin within the yang fire of the heart.
  20. Daois as an offshot of Early Buddhism

    Apeiron wS wrongly defined by plato as irrational magnitude. Wong math as the tracteory of western civilization. He got it from archytas. If u disagree then present the math that is correct. The music theory of natural harmonics is empirically correct as real infinity. What is covered up is the complementary opposites harmonics of the geometry. My anaylsis exposes that logical error by showing it got rediscovered in quantum time frequency analysis. All the social injustice and ecligical destruction is built into the math as a wrong definition of infinity. A proper definition means the harmonics create a mind body transformation training that has been lost in the west since the orthodox pythagoreans.
  21. Preventing Jing Loss

    The goal is making chi. The balls are for making sperm. The balls shud retract when qi is being made. No fluid. Quick fire fast deep breathing from knees bent and thighs parallel to ground is method only with power to convert fluid back into yin jing.
  22. Daois as an offshot of Early Buddhism

    The math is wrong becuz of disharmony. No personal issues needed.
  23. Daois as an offshot of Early Buddhism

    o.k. so he's talking about the music origin of the transition from arithmetic to irrational geometry. He's saying it's from Archytas and Plato relied on Archytas. O.K. Borzacchini - from my understanding, translates the Greek himself. But again we are talking about music theory and math here - this isn't based on a secondary translation. It's quite clear - Plato changed the Pythagorean harmonics (orthodox Taoist) to be an Archytas analysis of Pythagorean harmonics (an irrational magnitude for Apeiron) and this ushered in the Greek Miracle - the basis of incommensurability. this music origin was LOST - and by being lost more importantly what was lost was the complementary opposites logic of Taoist-Pythagorean harmonics. Something I reveal in my analysis - and I use quantum physics to corroborate my analysis. so now the 2nd source of Borzacchini's phrase "preestablished deep disharmony" - his pdf description of his book in Italian, "Plato's Computer" now notice the choice or words - philosophy, math and disharmony (music)..... so is incommensurability one of the formal paradoxes that continue to this present time? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CC4QFjACahUKEwjUo9SwnvXGAhUJHR4KHSNaC-Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Finfolet.it%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F12%2Fsummaries-borzacchini-2014.pdf&ei=r_SyVZSQB4m6eKO0rbAO&usg=AFQjCNFlqHJQr2pWwQTAo_5giD3d79ZioA&bvm=bv.98717601,d.dmo&cad=rja that's the pdf link btw So as a mathematician Borzacchini is admitting, like Bertrand Russell - the real numbers are a "convenient fiction." Sure math works - science uses it - but logically it remains elusive. And for whom does math work? that was the point I raised with Joe Mazur regarding his book Euclid in the Rainforest - he has a quaint story of how trignometry solved a problem for him down there in Costa Rica. I said well I spent a college semester there studying conservation biology and as far as I can tell it's Western math that is destroying the rainforest not saving it. So yeah math "works" if you support global genocide and ecological destruction, etc. That is also the point that Michael Hudson makes about Archytas and his fake Pythagorean harmonics. Well that's enough for now - I have more quotes of Borzacchini from his published article and more quotes from the sources I list above.
  24. Daois as an offshot of Early Buddhism

    O.K. so instead of just relying on that "one" quote of Borzacchini and claiming it's out of context - let's look at Borzacchini more closely - was he referring to the square root of two? http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=1177277 keep in mind this math forum is before he actually published his research on the topic. Bingo - diagonal of a square as the geometric mean is the square root of two.
  25. Daois as an offshot of Early Buddhism

    Let's move this discussion along - the Dude - what's his tag name Zhongdong? Can't even read my article? haha. He cites ONE source of Borzacchini that I quote. Man he's slow - I cite several sources of Borzacchini. There's two sources alone just for that "preestablished deep disharmony" phrase that Borzacchini uses. And again it's not like Borzacchini is my only source. The claim is I am quoting out of context. And so I give a full quote - no "half sentences" - like some people I've debated. If you google the full quote - you get the pdf link for the whole book. I posted another quote from that link. The book clearly states that Plato was closest to Archytas and ARchytas was the basis for Plato's philosophy of the World Soul. So the question what was ARchytas promoting? So now we have Borzacchini. He is focused on Archytas? Yes - and the question is the origin of incommensurability as irrational magnitude from music theory - that is the square root of two. So that's 2 sources. Carl Huffman's book on ARchytas is a third. Ernest McClain is a fourth. Peter Kingsley is a fifth. John Curtis Franklin is a sixth. Then there's the Pythagorean structural analysis of Plato - that's a 7th source. What did I say? A dozen sources? Well math professor Joe Mazur read my research. Btw Borzacchini said I had good math. Mazur said I had done impressive research. He's not really a source per se - but he did encourage me to follow up on David Fowler which I did. So Fowler is an 8th source. Mazur actually had me submit my research for publication. O.K. so I got an Orthodox Pythagorean analysis that I quote - that's a 9th source. then's another musciology analysis in there - a 10th source. Oh yeah I referenced the music analysis of Archytas - 11th source. Economist Michael Hudson is a 12th source. He cites Burkert - but Burkert is an old school Pythagorean analysis. everyone cites him. Oh yeah - Jamie James - a 13 th source. I referenced another source in my masters thesis that I posted here - a 14th source. Oh yeah then the "irrational magnitude" as Plato's basis of Apeiron - that's a 15th source. I sent that to Borzacchini and he was interested - he said he couldn't access the link I gave him and so I sent him another link which he could access and he thanked me for it. That was just a few weeks ago. Oh wait - then there's Hugly and Sayward's analysis of the Power Set Axiom - the square root of 2 - that's a 16th source. There's math teacher J.J. Asher's article, "The Myth of Irrational Numbers" - a 17th source. there's Bertrand Russell's quote - "the real numbers are a convenient fiction." - 18th source.