Lost in Translation

I sometimes hear things that are not there. By "not there" I mean not in the physical world, or at least not obviously so. For example, yesterday I was sitting at my PC and I heard my wife call to me from the kitchen. She yelled "I need your help!". Concerned, I spun around in my chair and yelled "On my way!" as I began to rise. It was then that my wife, who had been sitting quietly at her PC just behind me yelled "What the f**k!?! Who are you talking to?". It was then that I realized there had been no one yelling. This kind of thing happens to me every few months. It's not common but neither is it uncommon. Has anyone else had this kind of experience?

David Beckham. Or, better yet...

It is the sound of derision that one makes when blowing air between the lips. It is to the older generation what "meh" is to the younger.

Agreed!

The Wilhelm/Baynes translation is an excellent investment. In addition to containing a detailed I Ching translation and commentary it also contains a detailed discussion of the trigrams (Shuo Kua) and the Ta Chuan / Great Treatise.

That's what I call "word inflation".

Why do you think that is? Here's a hint. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

There are many good observations here. Thank you for this.

Are you referring to this? You are correct, I have not delved into what is in the hearts of these hypothetical people, at least not in my original post. Since you ask me to do so I will. As I see it there are two basic modes in which a person can operate: conscious and unconscious. A conscious person who engages in evil can be thought of as evil. This is the person who knows that they are causing harm, knows that they have a choice that will not cause harm and chooses the pathway that does cause harm out of expediency or fun or whatever. An unconscious person who engages in evil is a sort of grey area. They may not realize the harm they cause, or perhaps they feel they have no choice in the matter. I have several members of my family who have had very rough lives, spent time addicted to drugs, been in prison, etc. I understand what it is like to watch someone you care for suffer through their own choices. It is painful and if this is something that you have experienced too then my heart goes out to you. That is correct, you do not know me. But I am very honest with my writings and you are welcome to learn more about me if you so desire.

You make an interesting observation. Would you please explain more about this? You wrote that "evil is required for life to be real" and then implied that evil is a "true hazard". I'm curious how evil is a hazard. What is the nature of this hazard? How does this hazard manifest? On whom does this hazard inflict itself?

You make an interesting observation. Would you please explain more about this?

It's funny because it's true...

I believe you are referring to this passage? That is what I am getting at, but whereas the above says "All can know good as good only because there is evil" I am positing that "One can be good only because one can be evil". It's a subtle distinction but I think it's important. Let's pivot to Jesus' story of the Prodigal Son. In this case there were two sons, one "good" and one "evil". The good son always obeyed his father. The evil son demanded his share of his father's estate and took off to the city where he partied, drank, whored and engaged in other debauchery. Years passed and the prodigal son was broke and suffering on the streets so he bandied his courage and chose to come home and submit himself to his father's will, expecting that his father would hate him. Instead, his father welcomed him with open arms and lavished him with love. The good son was jealous since he had always been good, but the truth is the good son had never been "good" - he had only been "obedient". Upon his return and subsequent redemption it is the prodigal son who was truly good, since it was he who knew what it was like to be evil. The same story, by the way, applies to Yahweh, Michael, and Lucifer - but I don't want to get off track.

Hi Zork, Welcome to the Bums! Thank you for jumping into the thread. In this context I am referring to the evil that is the result of conscious choice. For example, a person wants to grow in his career so he chooses to smear his opponents and engages in unethical business practices for the sole purpose of destroying his enemies so he may advance. In this example the person knows that such actions will cause great harm to many people and may even drive some to lose their homes, ruin their marriages, or result in suicides and the person just does not care. If you would like to discuss coincidental evil (such as well-meaning legislation that purports to help people but actually causes great harm to them) then you may do that as well, but that's more of an "evil-light" (less calories) in my opinion. LiT

Excellent point. I do see that as being a "negative" aspect of being evil.

Just in case anyone is confused let me state clearly that I am not advocating evil, far from it actually. What I am stating in my often roundabout way is that one cannot be good unless one is also at least capable of being evil. Let's take a reference that everyone can relate to, Star Wars. In Star Wars the Jedi completely eschewed the Dark Side. They wouldn't even look at it since they knew the temptation it represented. Instead they clung to the Light Side. That was all fine and dandy until the Sith showed up. When that happened they were caught completely off guard. Why, you might ask? Well, the Sith were open to the Dark Side. They understood it and did not fear it. As such they were able to master its power, at least momentarily (40+ years in the case of Darth Sidious). The Jedi thought they were good because they clung to the Light Side, when in reality they were neutered because they had no direct experience of evil. Yeah. I went there...

I placed this in my PPD but perhaps it should also be posted here...

As long as I'm talking to myself I might as well add this: you can't choose to be good unless you can also choose to be evil. Here's a mental exercise. Imagine that you choose to be evil. Feel it. Feel the power. You can take anything you want. You can do anything you want. Rules mean nothing. People mean nothing. There are no consequences. Fear does not exist. Let this thought fill you. Do you feel the power? Take your time. Let it simmer. I'll wait. Now take that absolute power, the fearlessness where everyone and everything are straw dogs and only you and your will matter and choose. Choose to be good. How does that feel?

I change my mind. I won't leave the topic at that. One advantage I see that evil has over non-evil is freedom. Evil is free to choose evil. I'll say that again: evil is free to choose evil. That's something that good can not say. There is nothing to prevent evil from choosing good. That's perfectly allowed. There is a hell of a lot that prevents good from choosing evil. Notice that I say "choosing evil". I do not say "doing evil" or "being evil". Everyone at times will do evil, usually by accident. For example you may break a promise when you realize that keeping the promise becomes too burdensome, such as in a relationship. This causes extreme suffering to the other person and you know this, but you tell yourself "that's life" and put it out of your mind. While doing evil we may be labeled as being evil. But very few people choose evil, at least openly and without rationalization. There's power in that choice. That power is not to be underestimated.

Well said, your observation is excellent! What advantage is there to having evil be part of nature?

You say evil does not exist in nature. Does it exist in man? Being of nature wouldn't that place evil in nature? You say we programmed humans to not know their true devine nature. Wouldn't that programming be an evil act? If so, the benefit of such an act is the creation of a god that makes humans feel not responsible for their evil actions. Wouldn't this also be an evil act? Who would benefit from such actions if not an evil being? Who could perpetuate an act of this magnitude if not a divine creature?

I believe no. Wu wei, as Taoists call it, is beyond morality.

Is evil an opportunist? Possibly. I don't see a connection between being an opportunist and being evil or being good. A good person can see an opportunity for good and take it. An evil person can see an opportunity for evil and take it. What I do see is an underlying motive. A good person does good because it is good. An evil person does evil because there is something to be gained. In fact, I don't think that an evil person sees themselves as evil. That's an "outside looking in" description.

Perhaps. I don't disagree with you, but I feel there may be more to it than that. How does this explain evil spirits, gods and demons? Do such things not exist? Are at least some of them not evil?

Does this mean that there is no evil or that there is no advantage to evil?