Lost in Translation

Yeah, they sure look good on the wall after being framed and mounted. I have a few. They haven't prevented me from getting old though. I got one from "Utopia University" with a "Bachelor of Arts in B.S." I hung it on my wall! (Thank you, Adam and Dennis!)

This is a problem. With so many people - and so many transitory people - it is nearly impossible to personally vet everyone that we choose to work with or train with. In the olden days this was solved by simply asking someone who had worked with or trained with someone, i.e. a reference. But even that falls short in our burgeoning population. So what do we do? We create proxy organizations to do the vetting for us! These proxy organizations issue "certificates" and "diplomas", hence we know what's what. But do we really? Do we really know what's what? This is a problem. I don't know how to solve it.

I like listening to DaoBums by copy/pasting any random thread here: http://onlinetonegenerator.com/voice-generator.html It makes everything sound like YouTube!

Um... Thank you, but I think I'll pass on this suggestion.

I practice because I cannot NOT practice. Since as long as I can remember I have been insatiably curious. I read books on fantasy, and science fiction, philosophy, history and religion before I entered secondary school. As I entered my teenage years I found myself in the normal adolescent malaise. I wanted to understand, but nothing satisfied! In my early 20's I discovered Taoism and Zen. I learned what I could. I spoke with experts. I read books. I sat in lotus and Zazen until my legs grew numb. Eventually I grew busy with other pursuits and put practice behind me. Then, years later, Pope John Paul II died, and I felt a sadness well up in me that I could not explain. I picked up the Bible and started to read. I began talking to priests and lay people alike. But that, too, did not satisfy. At a loss for what to do I returned to my old friend, Tao. I brushed off my library and returned to my meditations. I did NOT return to lotus or Zazen. A nice comfy chair suffices. Age, experience, and (dare I say) a modicum of wisdom are doing what youth, vigor, and sheer will could not. I am growing happy, and content - secure in my knowledge. I accept that my path is not yours and your path is not mine, but the path is wide and there are many trails. I practice because I choose to practice. I want what I already have, and am excited for what is yet to come. And if this is all there is then I am alright with that, too.

My hot water heater broke and I had to take cold showers for about a week. It was horrible!

I have a friend whom I met through my wife's chi-gung class. He's a great guy. Years ago he had a near death experience and since then he's become very sensitive to energy. One day we were sitting around at a restaurant waiting to be served. We're just chatting and enjoying life. This guy picks up a paper place mat and holds it in one hand, then holds his other hand about two feet away, his fingers in the shape of a bird's talon. The paper immediately flaps backwards as if a hair dryer were pointed at it! He saw that I was watching, smiled, and put the paper back on the table. I guess he forgot that he was in a public place. Yes, some people can do amazing things. They just don't usually advertise on YouTube.

Good point! I still feel a very happy sensation, so either I'm 1) crazy, 2) a burgeoning pyromaniac, or 3) they burned their houses as part of a joyous event. Hey, that was 5,000 years ago so I'm happy not knowing which is true.

Wow. While reading that article I felt a visceral sense of ... happiness - the sort of thing one might feel at a school graduation. I wonder if they were semi-nomadic peoples and burning the houses was an act of worship and appeasement to the gods for a safe passage to a new land?

I suppose it's important to distinguish the objective beforehand. If one wants to master chi and become a wizard, well, philosophy alone is almost certainly the wrong path. But not everyone wants that. Many want to simply be at peace with the world, in which case philosophy may be of great value. Noted.

That may be true, but it also may not be true. Taoist 'philosophy' may simply be the newest lineage in a long line of lineages. I had this thought many years ago when working with a group of Indian computer programmers. None of them spoke English as a native language yet they all spoke English. It seems there are so many languages in India that the government uses English to speak to itself. Now this is interesting because the English used in India is not the same as used in England for America, but it is very much English. It even has its own slang! A purist may say "they are not speaking English", but that's not what they would say!

But now we have added a new element, the mystical experience. This is by no means a requirement of all religions - quite the opposite! The mystical experience often runs counter to dogma and canon and is thus to be shunned, or at the very least controlled. Are you saying that the mystical experience is essential to Taoism?

This is worthy of a thread in its own right! (hint, hint) I, personally, always come back to choice/consequence. Whether we follow the road laid before us or forge our own path, we always must choose. And once chosen we must accept the consequences. This ^^^ is the comment from another thread that started this thread. We'll see if it sparks any interest... For almost any discipline other than Taoism I would answer that a school/lineage is a repository and arbiter of canonical knowledge. Naturally the same is true of Taoism to a certain extent. But fundamental to Taoism is unlearning and non-action. These seem to be at odds with the very concept of "canonical." So where does that leave us? How do you teach something that holds at its core that "the Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao" and "the name that can be named is not the eternal name?"

If it is meant to be then I am sure you, or someone else, will find a way to express it.

I'm not sure. Perhaps something akin to the "Telephone game" as it applies to teaching? Every generation (teacher) adds his own slight variations and over time they reveal new and deeper knowledge while also concealing and eventually losing old knowledge. Something like that should do.

I don't understand what you are saying. Since I cannot properly infer your implied meaning I shall sign off for now. -Lost

The idea originated with Jung. I did not know that when I created the topic. Now I need to read that book. Thanks!

People don't have ideas, Ideas have people: I came across this statement a few days ago. It was in the context of how ideas disappear from mainstream consciousness then reappear again. In a sense ideas a like conceptual viruses. They spread from host to host. Just as people don't "have influenza", but really "influenza has a person", an idea can be said to "have a person" too. Maybe this topic is worth discussing.

I really do! How did you know?

A nine page "welcome" thread? Seriously? This must be a record!

This is worthy of a thread in its own right! (hint, hint) I, personally, always come back to choice/consequence. Whether we follow the road laid before us or forge our own path, we always must choose. And once chosen we must accept the consequences.

I'm glad you mentioned this. How does "adapt[ing] our life's circumstances ... with an eye on making it easier to life a Taoist life" equate to hermetic living? I completely agree that rural life can be peaceful. All things equal I do desire that kind of life. But peaceful and following the way are not the same thing. One can argue that it is the constant pressure of urban life that fuels the desire to follow Tao, since if urban life were relaxing we would have no need to go within in the first place. That's really what I am saying.

What does it mean to completely withdraw yourself from the world? What does it mean to not be very attached to worldly things?

I disagree. I am of the belief that one should learn to be a Taoist in their own back yard, so to speak. If one's ability to maintain a "Taoist-y" life is dependent upon the external environment then one is a poor Taoist. If a hermit is a "good" Taoist then he can move to the city and still be good. The opposite is true.