ljazztrumpet

Yeah, exactly C T..This is right where I am 'weighing in' on this topic as well.

Just to address one part of what you said cold.. The mother could believe she's acting compassionately. That she brought beings into this world where people are being tortured and are undergoing all types of suffering and that she realized she made a mistake and wanted to take them out of all of that. Of course, for most all of us, drowning a person would be considered a very uncompassionate behavior. Would be quite different if she used a poison where they just fell asleep, etc. So it brings up the point: 'Who says what real compassion looks like? Who's qualified to make the decision?' In my experience it's those who render great service.. Like those who are able to effect healings in themselves or others..or are in some way greatly able to alleviate other people's suffering. These are the people I personally listen to when I want to know about compassion and things of that nature.

Yes, well said oak.. This is where I feel it really matters.. All of this stuff that we are discussing.. How does it effect our practical lives? How can we use it for benefit?

The way I think of it is that cultivation will happen whether you want it to or not. For some, it might happen in the same lifetime and they recognize it strongly.. For others, like the sociopath example I was referring to, it might not happen in the same lifetime..So one could say in that particular person's lifetime, it's not inborn. But I think it's inborn in all of our existences - speaking beyond the present human lives we are identifying with now... And I use past and present lives just because my thinking mind likes linearity.. Some people start to talk about all lives happening simultaneously and all that type of thing.. But I just give my thinking mind what I feel will just help me get practical results in this life!

Yes, I was reading that..as LIT said, it feels you are coming from a 'meta level' when you are speaking of compassion and I hope to gain more insight into that. The soul thing is from previous NDE's I've had and those I've studied and talked with people about... It's just a way I think of my being (referring to the 'little me' I still identify with primarily)..I just use the term 'soul' out of convienence.

Ok, I'll give you an advantage, you can use a more modern weapon Pretty much! Also used love to divert a suicide bomber and to save his whole squad from attack on several occasions..

Yeah, in this thread, this post really resonates with me. Thanks for sharing that

I don't know..it's beyond my current scope of understanding. To me, at this point in my understanding, things like love and compassion are related and fear, to me, is the opposite of love.

Yes, I can't disagree with that - but I feel we can gain empathy to other peoples' outlooks. Taomeow has some deep things to say about compassion and empathy. In situations like this, I tend to look at things more from a soul's development throughout a number of lifetimes.. So, while a sociopath may never have compassion or empathy in this life, at some point in that soul's timeline, compassion and empathy will develop. Again, these insights are from my own personal mystical experiences so they might not jibe exactly with others' views.. but there is a whole 'school of belief' that thinks of things like this in this way.

It's funny because here I am writing in on a thread about compassion and, here on this thread, I am ready to challenge you to a duel.. Although, if we use those 'old-timey' weapons that they used to use in duels, we probably won't mess each other up too badly. Actually, you ever check out any Michael Jaco on youtube? Ex-Navy seal talks about sending love in combat situations...very, very cool!

Exactly, exists in a good amount of religious teaching..Use of fear to inspire 'better' behavior..and, in many cases, leads to all kinds of really crazy, strange distortions.

Ohhh man..Alright, I'll keep settin em up, and you keep driving em home. What am I to you? A Dean Martin to your Jerry Lewis? An Abbott to your Costello? An Ollie to your Stanley?

They could be doing it because of subconscious conditioning that says they SHOULD do what they feel is helpful in their own minds. Or could come from being indoctrinated in religious teachings. But, in the right circumstances, the initial motivation may not matter so much if the help given is from a wise place over time..Then that might transform the person so they are helping because it brings them joy, and they feel all the positive results they gain in their lives from doing so. That being said, I don't believe in motivating people out of fear.. but I'm just looking for positive aspects that may occur in less than positive situations.

Hahaha!! Pretty good Marbleman..prettyyyy...prettyyyy....pretty good.. You know I still have that dueling glove!!

Haha..Still, he was no Frank! (Of course I'm coming from a jazz background so I might be way biased)

A great healer worked very hard to teach me that every single being is doing the best they can with what they know at the time. That, were I in the other person's place I would do exactly what they did. Even though every second it usually feels like I'm choosing, if I sit and meditate about it, I see I really don't have any choice...I'm am just a product of my conditioning and past experiences. But some people I discuss this idea with have said you can reach a point where you 'break out' of this 'mold'.. I guess when your conditioning and past experiences absolutely don't effect you any more..if that's even possible.

Reminds me of something I was saying in the 'God thread' about surrender.. I think it's something a person needs to practice to be able to do it in more and more situations. Yeah, that's usually a step in the right direction

Ok, ok..Maybe I was a little harsh. After all, I am the jazz musician on this group.. Maybe it's my responsibility to paste things like that in these situations. Hey, am I allowed to quote myself??

Oh c'mon people, do I have to do all the work around here? C'mon guys, LET'S GET WITH THE PROGRAM HERE!!!

I'll keep you posted dude!

My own experience is that there comes a point in your life (in whatever lifetime) where you have to remove veils and fetters.. You really have no choice. People might say, 'Well, you could just keep going on and suffering.' but I don't believe it is any human's desire to suffer, so that's not much of a choice. Speaking for myself and a couple of other people I've talked to about this process, it seems there comes a point where one sees actually how difficult it is to remove the veils and fetters - and then you really don't want to anymore.. but it's too late..the suffering is more than ever if you try to avoid it. Life literally forces you into it..over the course of lifetimes I believe. Yeah, kind of really sucks..unless I get to the point where I can fully heal myself and show others how to do the same..and all suffering falls away..Maybe then I'll think it's worth it!

Besides all the nondual concepts I'm sure most of us are familiar with, I would like to think the true nature of a human being is love - When the 'blocks'/fear are removed, then those behaviors that the few great spiritual healers talk about can shine through: love, compassion, humility, benevolence, service, kindness, etc.

At first, I think there has to be a desire to be aware of your own condition - and, in working on that awareness, things like compassion arising on its own are bound to happen at some point.

Yep, it's usually a 2-way street!