ljazztrumpet

Hahaha!! Nice man! I'm finally getting the respect I deserve! Ok, ok. I can dig it man. Solid. Thanks man, you too.. I’m just sitting in my car waiting to go in and do a nice small group jazz gig at a fancy steakhouse down here on Wall St, NYC.. So that’s a good start to the weekend anyway!

Yeah man, absolutely. If I have more ease/clarity/wisdom/love within myself, I am better able to help someone else. To get to the place with everyone (not just loved ones) where I have the same level of concern for them as myself is something I really desire. I think it's definitely good to be skeptical of the 'mysterious stuff', especially in this day and age. If you are really curious, just ask Life/The Universe/Etc. to put you into contact with someone who has had those types of experiences. Hey, it's worth a shot and you might be surprised!

Righto - But there are people who have overcome suffering and are able to take on others suffering without suffering themselves. Example - The most prolific healer I'm aware of, who healed tens of thousands of people in Germany and Europe in the 1940's and 50's, had two dots that showed up on his X-Rays at the end of his life. One was small, and one was big. The small one he said was from all the people he helped to heal and he said that was fine, it didn't bother him at all. The big one was the suppression of his energy as the German government kept trying to prohibit him from healing. That's what killed him. He predicted his death years before and how it would happen. At the end of his life he was walking around and talking to people and his whole insides were burned out. The doctors at the time couldn't understand how he could possibly still be walking around. When he died, the doctors didn't know what to call it, so they said he died of cancer. When he died, there was very unusual weather phenomenon that happened at that moment with thunderstorms and the like just out of nowhere. Reminds me of some of the stories you hear about the big JC dying at crucifixion. All of this reminds me of people who go through torturous deaths and are laughing and singing..or the buddhist monk types who self-immolate and sit there totally peacefully. It shows me that the suffering isn't there. They may experience pain, yes, but they don't judge it as 'good' or 'bad' at the deepest of levels within themselves..No thought of, 'The pain shouldn't be here..I wish it would stop, etc.' So no suffering. At a much 'lower' level, I notice that, as I evolve in love consciousness, I am able to take on a friends suffering without having it effect me as much as it used to. Oh, here's a good clip of John Sherman (from justonelook.org) talking about this idea of having intense pain and not suffering from it.

But Lima is right, this thread is about if enlightenment is desirable. THEREFORE, you must choose the title you want. Marble-Da? Marble-Ji? My full title is: 'Most Great and Holy Master of Enlightenment, Love, Compassion, and Humility' I realize that is a mouthful so I tell people, once they get to know me better, they can just call me Ljazz.. or Lex.

Yeah man, we are. And that's a great way to put it.. Thanks!

It really is! Even though I find it also to be a motivating factor, I believe that it's better to be motivated from a positive outlook, and my actions will have even more clarity and effectiveness from a totally positive standpoint. Yeah, it was hearing that idea from different sources that I believe allowed me to consider that possibility. Even though I used to get angry when I heard it.. But, then, I had a couple of mystical experiences after a lot of meditation, over a couple of years ago, and saw that that was actually the case - or, at least, it was a 'higher/wiser perspective' than that which usually comes from my thinking mind. I have good arguments with myself about this

Peace to all of us.

Cha! It's happening all over the world to people right now. IMO, there are more humans at a more developed level of consciousness than ever before in traditionally recorded human history. It may not seem so because the media focuses on negative things and tragedies and the like. This is not necessarily bad because it brings peoples' attention to problems that still need to be addressed. Things are way better than they were 100 years ago. It may not seem so because of the media, but I feel that's because of technology - the internet and the like. Everything has greatly 'shrunk', and we get our information extremely quickly in this day and age in most cases. But I believe if we had the technology 100 years ago that we do now, there would be much more negativity being reported 100 years ago than compared to nowadays. Should it happen more quickly - the winds of transformation changing everything and ending suffering? Well, imo, of course it should. I can't be that surrendered - at least most of the time. I have had some mystical-type experiences in deep meditation where I really saw everything was perfect just the way it is and nothing needs to be changed (including actions to create change). But, then my thinking mind came in and I went about my day and said, 'Hey, that's crazy! Things need to change and suffering needs to end!'.. But it was good for me to have those mystical experiences because it was yet another way of showing me that there are things 'greater/wiser' than my thinking mind. Now that I am writing this out, I see a great outlook to have would be to realize that everything really is perfect the way it is, nothing needs to be changed, and all my actions to try to heal and help myself and others needn't be changed either. It would probably be the most effective for me to develop this outlook all the time, as I wouldn't have any type of undercurrent of frustration/anger about suffering going on in the world. I could act from a higher place of love and understanding which would probably bring greater clarity to my actions and apparent decisions. I wouldn't be surprised if Life forced me into this outlook sooner or later!

Dude, you say that now, but that's only because I haven't used my dueling glove on you yet in this thread.

I've studied spiritual healing for a number of years and had quite a number of profound experiences. As far as compassion, it depends on how you define it. This I can tell you. Across the board, in all different belief paradigms, I have seen that the few people with a very highly developed love consciousness are the ones that can effect physical and/or emotional healings in people where traditional and alternative medicine has failed. These people are also the ones who emphasize the importance to the people they are helping, that healing themselves/keeping themselves healthy is done through developing a very high degree of love consciousness. Along with this, I always notice these people have great humility, and would never think of taking any type of 'credit' for the work they do. Many times they realize that Life forced them to the place in consciousness that they're at, and it doesn't have anything to do with their ego selves. So to answer the question of how do you know your actions are truly compassionate. In the way I look at things, from all the experiences I've had in spiritual healing, you can know your actions to help someone else are positive and compassionate if you are able to effect any physical/emotional healing in them. Better yet, and what seems to take place more often in this day and age, is the ability to show someone how they can heal themselves through highly developed love consciousness. Even if you are at a high enough level of love consciousness to heal a person, they still have to have the tools to maintain their healing. They have to lift their own love consciousness up to a very high level. I was just talking with a lady who has healed two people this past year who were totally blind, now they can see. But it doesn't have to be that grandiose. Sometimes just being there for a person and listening with a non-judgmental ear and 'sending' them love can effect a huge change in a person and even save their life if they are feeling depressed.

Cha! R u kidding? All the cats who don’t believe in enlightenment go there to check out all the people who get way caught up in their egos and proclaim ‘enlightenment’. Check it out man, there’s some funny stories on there!

By Jove, I think he’s got it! I guess I can let the proverbial ‘cat out of the bag’ now Gunther. This whole thread was set up to show YOU the meaninglessness of pursuing some concept of ‘enlightenment’. Paradoxically, now that you have rejected the pursuit of enlightenment, we have to label you as enlightened. All hail Gunther-ji! Today thedaobums, tomorrow - guruphiliac.org for you! Ohh yeah!! Yeah, that's how you're gonna start to look now that you are enlightened:

In fact, all this reminds of the interview I was just listening to yesterday when I was driving around. This cat, Michael Jaco, an ex-navy SEAL, used the technique of sending out love very effectively in combat situations..I was very impressed by some of his stories:

Ha! It depends on who you're hanging out with! I think because of desires I've had to raise my consciousness and kindness level, I usually attract into my life people who are kinder than I am as inspirations. But, that being said, I really feel one of the main points of this life, for myself and others who want what I want, is to be at this level: From George Ritchie's book 'Return From Tomorrow'

Years back I felt very compelled to learn how the great spiritual healers got to the point that they did. Things kept being attracted into my life that brought me to have more illusions/blocks fall away. But, then, it got to the point where I felt it was too hard and I wanted to stop..I just wanted to live a comfortable, peaceful life. And, now, despite my feeling that this is too challenging to continue to pursue, I feel Life is absolutely forcing me to continue. It is like, 'Do this, or suffer.' And, to me, that's not much of a choice! No human really wants to suffer.. Point is, be careful what you wish before because you may reach the point of no return!

Yes, I agree. Although I do think formal meditation periods can be helpful in establishing a 24/7 clarity of consciousness. Being into spiritual healing, I look for physical and emotional healings that occur that are not treatable/cureable by modern medical techniques. Across the board it has been my experience that those who are able to effect healing in themselves and others have a very high quality of love consciousness as well as embodying an inner peace of mind and clarity that is palpable. These days a lot of my meditations are focused on ‘radiating out’ love to whoever/whatever comes to my mind. Doing this in a formal meditation helps me carry this over to when I am just going about my daily life. In my experience, raising the love consciousness seems to automatically take care of things I have previously tried to experience through intellectual understanding or other meditative practices - but I have found that there are just certain things my logical thinking mind will never be able to fully understand. This whole ‘path of the heart/living in the heart type practice has been a challenge for me because I’ve always been the type that likes to read and study all different concepts of spiritual and nondual teachings. I find the path of the heart is non-linear (which is a drag for my thinking mind as it likes linearity!) and consists of surrendering, not knowing (like, knowing with the mind), and total non-judgment. I do find all the intellectual study I’ve done has been a great help to me in the sense that I don’t align myself with any particular belief paradigms - so I don’t find myself relying on any type of ‘external power’ to help me. But I have deriven great help (and continue to derive great help) from other people/beings who live, or have lived, in a state of high love consciousness..Whether it be in person or through the written word.

Wow - Closest definition of enlightenment I think I've seen. @Will - If you are totally at your 'wit's end' and see no other possible practical solution to feeling more contentment, you could pray that Life removes any blocks you have to loving everyone and everything all the time. But make sure you've tried every other thing you can think of first to bring yourself contentment. This one, imo, should only be used as a 'last ditch' attempt if you have nothing left to lose..because it's, like, pretty intense.. Yeah, that emoji sums it up nicely..it will probably be your default expression if you do this! Or maybe Good luck dude! Sending you the + vibes of contentment..at least as much as I'm able

What I have noticed, being involved in spiritual healing circles for quite awhile, is that if a person is really suffering they are usually open to just about anything. I know of many stories where loved ones/friends 'sent' love to a person afflicted with a physical and/or emotional sickeness - or a serious addiction. Many times these people don't know that anyone is doing anything on their behalf, but they still recover - they become healthy, they lose the taste of whatever their addicted to. Quite amazing really. Now, if they continue in their current behavior, maybe, after awhile, they fall back into the original condition, on the other hand, perhaps they realize that a change is necessary for them to maintain their healing. I've gotten to the point where I usually can tell if a person gives a damn about truly healing, or just wants to stick with their egoic pursuits. Those who are truly ready, tend to receive healing - In the main healing group I was in, we had what were called 'success reports'. Whenever possible there would be a medical doctor who would verify the healing (there were many thousands of medical doctors in this spiritual healing group.) and it would be shared throughout the group as a kind of motivating factor. All this being said, I can't say these people were in the majority, because they had to be at that stage where they were suffering enough to give up the egotistical behaviors that were causing their sicknesses/addictions. But the dozens or more healings I have been aware of in this particular manner have been extremely impressive to me. Even if you can just help just one person, that is BIG. Who knows what they will go on to? :-)

Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind means, to me, to love everything intensely because everything that is, is God and you are part of that. Love your neighbor as yourself comes after you've cultivated a sense of love for everything that is. That you realize that everything you are conscious of is really you. When you have cultivated this sense of all-encompassing love then you kind of 'focus down' and go about your practical life and feeling that love you are developing for everything - the everything which is you - and you are feeling that feeling for everyone you see. To me, one is more of a meditative exercise you may do when you're alone and, then, when you are out and about in your daily life interacting with others, you feel that love for all of them. And, perhaps, as you cultivate that love to a high enough level, you see no difference between your 'self' and 'other'. I still think love is the most effective way to break down the illusion of separation, just because it's so experiential. You start to love others more and more because you see them as simply you. I think it's a practice to be cultivated and, i would think, it becomes more and more natural over time.

Wonderful sentiments Buddy Jetsun.. My current opinion is that we have to 'build' unbreakable resolve through practice. I'm sure one could get to the point where they could use nearly every conscious moment of their life doing this. And, perhaps, all of us are doing it now unconsciously. Aligning thoughts, mind, and speech with outer action also takes practice/intention. Imo, that is great advice about meditation. The outlook that everything that happens is for our good in some way or another is a very worthwhile practice I find. And I find this ties into the practice of raising my 'love consciousness'. Thanks again for sharing this Bud! All the very best, Lex

But in some Buddhist traditions/teachings, as well as advaitic, it seems that the traditional teaching advises cultivating the values of love, kindness, compassion, and service first, and that sets the 'fertile ground' for realizations of the clear sightedness of dependent origin. That being said, one of the practices I do, John Sherman's 'Self-Directed Attention' exercise, is about clearing away the 'fear of life' and, then, what's left is that compassion. So perhaps approach this in two different directions is ideal.

Lucky you!