ljazztrumpet

Yep, although I think things like meditation (and qi gong) are great practices, I find Life doesn't find that absolutely necessary to 'get you'. These things you mention all just happen anyway. Although I think these practices do accelerate things. BTW, it's not the 'best way'! I haven't figured that one out yet!

I just wrote about this on another thread. To me, a 'Master' is one who has physically and emotionally healed themselves, and can help others do the same. One who exudes a palpable sense of love/kindness/compassion/benevolence/service. These are the type of people I truly respect and admire and who are inspirations to me...and who continue to help me. To me, these are the true Masters, and I find they are very, very few and far between. The two I have known/know have been Bruno Groening (haven't heard from him lately) and a lady I was just talking with earlier

Tai Chi or Chai Tea?

Haha! Yeah man, I can dig it. Yeah, I agree, it really is the right attitude imo. There can be all types of mystical experiences one can have that they define as 'enlightenment'. My own opinion of what an 'enlightened' person looks like is one who has physically and emotionally healed themselves, and can help others do the same. One who exudes a palpable sense of love/kindness/compassion/benevolence/service. These are the type of people I truly respect and admire and who are inspirations to me...and who continue to help me!

My current idea of things regarding raising our consciousness is that we all 'have to go through it'. And we all, eventually, have the ability go through it. What would 'chickening out' look like? Shooting up more smack? Jumping off a bridge? Still, I think we will eventually have to get there..Life/Existence seems that it will force us sooner or later. Just this year I had a couple of profound mystical experiences - I went to a place where I was shown where I would be if I were to cross over right at this point in my life. These experiences were separated by several months and the 2nd place was similar to the first, except slightly better. But, in both situations, it was a run-down, depressing type of place. Everyone there with me was just like me! Meaning, they didn't appear to be physically like me (we all still appeared in physical bodies), but their consciousness was right at the level mine was. I had the awareness both times that I knew I would want to come back to reincarnate because I needed to further raise my consciousness. One of the few great spiritual healers that have lived imo, Bruno Groening, said that we make the most progress here on the earth plane. That there are actually a countless amount of souls waiting to incarnate/reincarnate on the earth for their learning experiences. Even though, when we get here, for most of us on the spiritual path at some point in our lives, we want to just go back and forget about our overzealous decision!;-) I will post a little quote from Alfred Hosp's book, 'Powers of the Spirit' of Bruno. You can read the first 1/2 of the book for free online in PDF. Keep in mind, Bruno was talking with a catholic audience in Germany in the 1940's so he used terms referring to an external god, satan, good, evil, etc.. but this can be easily transferred to metaphors of more of a Oneness/nondual sense of things imo. Bruno speaking to a group in the 1950's: Yes, friends, only here in your bodies are you able, with good will, to accomplish your goal, since on the other side, that is, in the spiritual world beyond this one, where you can’t call any body your own any more, it is much, much harder. So you should be grateful for every day that you are ALLOWED to live. But always live in such a way that you are wiling to learn while you are here, and serve that which is of God. We all have a task that we received before we were born and which we have to accomplish in the span of life that has been made available to us. The length of a human life is predetermined by God. But if someone, from a spiritual point of view does not carry any readiness within them to learn, there then comes an early RECALL, and that means that the person concerned must mentally, spiritually and physically repeat this in a later existence. Such a recall can also happen, however, when other people or the environment of the person concerned renders any further stay on earth meaningless. In this case, all of the people who caused this become responsible and must sooner or later make good the wrong they have done. That is why I must warn you, my dear friends: Beware of prejudging anyone or of not thinking them capable of anything, since by doing so you are taking from them the possibility of achieving what they were capable of, and which in actual fact belonged to their task in life. Even when we are unjustly suspicious of another person we make ourselves guilty and thus burden our own future destiny. It is always the case that every limitation we place on ourselves and on another comes from evil and serves evil, for no one of us has the right to pass sentence on another human being. A human being is never in a position to judge their neighbour, and so it can only ever be a condemnation. Only God himself can really JUDGE everyone. He is ALWAYS just and helps us in every situation. All we have to do is be ready to receive his help and grace, without disturbing the flow of the divine power with any SELFISH DEMANDS.”

Wait a minute, do really know people who have actually chosen to go through 'hell to get to heaven'? In my own experience, and everyone else I've known, it seems as if Life is forcing us. Do it, or suffer terribly! Again, I keep saying, there must be a better way!

That one brought tears to my eyes. I keep thinking there must be a better way to do all this!

Currently, I have two ideas about when I will personally stop seeking. The first one will be when I am able to have fulfilled the Bodhisattva's Vow. I'm not so interested in how long this takes right now. The second idea of my 'end to seeking' is when I stop suffering. Like people who go to torturous deaths and are singing and laughing. Or Buddhist monks who self-immolate and are just sitting there as peacefully as can be. Maybe physical pain happens but there is no judgement of the pain as 'good' or 'bad' - like it doesn't matter whether the pain is there or not. It doesn't cause suffering. Emotionally speaking - grief still happens, you still cry, maybe you cry more depending on the circumstances because you are so open, but it is not judged as 'good' or 'bad'. It doesn't cause suffering. This second idea of an end to seeking I want to happen as soon as possible! In the scenarios where people aren't suffering no matter what happens, it seems that, in most cases I'm aware of, there is a very high level of love consciousness developed. Maybe it has to do with all fear falling away, and what's left is that love - That type of agape love that many people intuitively know is there and is, like, 'a golden key' - so to speak.

I don't really care for the term 'enlightenment' because it has so many connotations. Probably not so much on this forum but, a lot of the time, 'enlightenment' can be associated with ego boosting. "I have enlightenment/awakening and, if you come to me, I can 'transfer' it to you." - And all types of $$ businesses of that nature. I mean there is BIG money in this!! If someone asks me what my idea of enlightenment is, I would say it's someone who can heal themselves and help others do the same. Someone who embodies the qualities of kindness, love, benevolence, compassion, service, and humility. I have also known it to be the case that some people who work to develop the qualities I mentioned above, are the ones who are able to reach a very full understanding of non-separation. Don't get me wrong, intellectual understanding of advaitic/nondual concepts can absolutely be helpful and dispel a lot of beliefs that can waste a lot of your time. But it also takes a lot of spiritual practice to actually have experiential awareness of this non-separation/oneness. And if you are going for this Awareness as a goal, instead of cultivating qualities of love, compassion, etc., and making that the most important thing to you, it's probably going to take way longer. I'd say working in an 80%/20% ratio is good!

Thanks man - and I resonate with this explanation a lot.

Soup

Wow - great topic. I'll share from my own Lens of perspective very much colored by a lifelong experience in spiritual healing. This is where belief vs knowing is most important to me. After I witness a 'miraculous' healing then my belief becomes a knowing in my own being. Also - since I've witnessed these types of healings in all different paradigms, I isolate the common dominator - which is love. I consider the idea that love is what heals to be my belief through experience. But the actual healing is a 'knowing' - at least to my being. Another way to approach this based on what everyone is saying: what we are, is all there is so, therefore, if we keep believing and having faith that a healing will happen, this I've also seen work in many cases. Again though, there are several factors usualy involved. But I do find that common dominator of love to be present in a true, lasting healing. So I believe that we have to align ourselves with 'Universal Law'. Qualities of this law are what the few great healers in history have talked about: love, kindness, compassion, benevolence, service, humility, etc. Awareness of non-separation doesn't seem necessary, but it probably helps! And I wonder if cultivating a strong consciousness of love could cause that 'separateness illusion' to dissolve anyway. I hope so! I'm working with all this right now - ill post any 'miraculous' healings!;-)

Slow Mobius

Oh no..is this level of corniness actually allowed on this forum? Well.....I may use the last one

To me, that's more of the Advaitic approach.. It's great as well, but I find, personally, I need my mind to be pretty still to do practices of that nature. I might do something like that in a meditation while, in daily activities/work I engage in the other practices I mentioned. As far as I'm concerned whatever gets me 'there'/happier/more peaceful in the quickest manner!

Silent Thunder, I love how you put all of this. Thanks for these wonderful sentiments. For me, it’s having practices to release all the ‘mind stuff’ that I find necessary. Things like cultivating gratitude in all things....Qi Gong....Very simple dualistic prayer may be the most powerful for me now. Just ‘praying to God’ to help me to love more and better. Part of praying like this, for me, I think cultivates humility. It’s like I’m kind of surrendering my intellectual beliefs to the 'I Don't Know'.

I believe that too dwai..but I only believe it for now, it's not my current life experience. But I am in the middle of trying to see if this is true for me experientially. Rather I should say Life is forcing me to do this! I currently believe it's why I incarnated..and why I've always incarnated onto the earth plane.. Maybe this time around I'll 'get it'..Or, at least, get a big 'piece' of it;-) Anyway, I'll post an update if I gain any practical, real-world, experiential insights in this area in my life.

They actually market a spray for them now.. I think you can find it in the same aisle at your local drug store where insect repellent is sold..

Oh yeah? Whaddya mean by that remark Marbleman? Didn't I once challenge you to a duel? And a humility contest? I'll bet I have more fetters than you!

I think that's why I incarnated for this lifetime. The most prolific healer I'm aware of, Bruno Groening, used to recommend a book written by a 19th century mystic.. I think it's called 'The Seven Levels of Heaven' or something like that.. Unfortunately, I can't find an english version. When I was involved in the Bruno group, there were people working on getting it translated to English. One of the MD's that used to come over to the USA when we would go give 'medical-scientific lectures' on spiritual healing described part of it to me. So, there are, like, seven levels..after the earth. Now I'm sure there is much more than 7 levels and many more things/areas/dimensions.. but I think this is channeled info by a mystic for human minds.. Anyway, there are, like, 7 levels..So, the next level up from earth is better than earth..no one is sick..there are still different belief groups, religions, etc.. This is the most 'populated' level as souls aren't so motivated to move on since life is so much better than on earth.. And here's the kicker.. If you decide you want to get to the 2nd level....you really have to 'purify' your being...and if you have just one negative/unloving thought up there on the 2nd level.... SHOOM! You're back down to the 1st!! "Damn, I thought I could hold it this time!' And the 7th level I think is that 'merging back' seeing that all there is, is what you are.. Oneness/Everything-Is-Love..etc, etc. But Bruno was big on saying how much faster we progress being on the earth plane.. and that there are huge numbers of souls waiting to incarnate here for that reason.. Actually, some pretty great stuff here: http://www.help-and-healing-sessions.com/upload/Powers of the Spirit chapters one to six illustrated[1].pdf I take it to be the most truthful description of things, as far as what the average human mind can conceive, just because of all the many thousands of healings that he was able to effect with people.

The idea is to give thanks in every situation no matter what happens or what feelings you're having. Studying spiritual healing with some very powerful people/beings, this has been emphasized. One way to look at it is to see everything as a lesson for our growth in love consciousness. Possible to do in every situation? Maybe not. But applying this technique now and developing it over the last several months, I can cultivate much more of a feeling of thanks in more and more situations, which leads to a greater feeling of well-being more of the time. This book, From Prison to Praise, is, imo, outstanding in talking about cultivating this mindset, and took my practice to a new level: http://www.missionarychristian.org/phocadownloadpap/Prison-to-Praise-Merlin-Carothers.pdf It has a decidedly christian-bent, but I look at all that as a metaphor. I believe this mindset could be applicable to anyone who has some relative sanity, regardless of beliefs, or lack thereof.