ljazztrumpet

Reminds me: probably the funniest book I ever read: https://www.amazon.com/Bear-Went-Over-Mountain-ebook/dp/B008TSC8AK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1514597010&sr=8-4&keywords=the+bear+went+over+the+mountain

I'm just down here in Wall St. NYC sitting in my car waiting for the 6pm meter to go into my gig, and one of these guys just walked by! Should I be concerned? Usually we only have black bears in NY - and they all live upstate!

Well said Gerard. When your feelings of love and happiness increase...When you see people around you start to get out of their own troubles....When you see them start to be able to physically and emotionally heal themselves....When you feel more and more love in your heart.. You’ll forget all about any ideas of awakening and enlightenment.. You’ll be too busy feeling happy and serving others out of love and joy. And you’ll probably actually experience things that people who speak of ‘enlightenment’ describe intellectually. Like the falling away of the idea of separation and identifying what you are as all there is. But, most probably, the center of perception will still always come from your specific body/mind as long as your physical life lasts. I’ve been lucky enough to spend some time with people like this. I found it motivating enough for me to do the constant work on raising my love consciousness. The work is intense and hard, yes, but there can also be joy in it at times. In fact, I think feeling the joy at times is necessary to doing this work. Being miserable all the time is going to be counterproductive. Also patience and non-judgment I find to be important. You don’t have to do it all in this lifetime, and don’t be hard on yourself if you need to take a vacation. I am pretty sure it takes longer that way, but I think we have unlimited lifetimes to get there and everyone does get there eventually.

Well said LimA! Merry Christmas Organic Epicure!

I believe to really break free to a large extent, and you may want to call this being 'enlightened' or 'realized', is when nothing that happens to you causes you to suffer. Whether you are being tortured to death, seeing a horrible movie, or eating broccoli. You judge nothing as 'good' or 'bad' from the deepest level of your being. And, yet, there is a drive to help and empower all other people to see this as well. 'You', referring to your specific body/mind, won't ever be totally free until every being is free - because they are also you. So things like the Bodhisattva vow are just a natural occurrence of an evolving spiritual consciousness. You have to 'take' the Bodhisattva vow (or it's equivalent) at some point in order to continue to evolve spiritually.

I think I can dig what your pointing to Buddy Budlove.. A state where there is only perception of the Self, since that's all there is. There is no 'little self' to think it's perceiving a 'true' Self, because the idea of there ever being a 'little self' is seen as imaginary in the first place. That being said, with only two exceptions I know about regarding a couple of spiritual healers who were able to bilocate, all of us, no matter what level of truth about nonduality we're able to discern, still have our point of reference from the particular body/mind we are inhabiting until our physical death. We may truly know that what we are, is all there is but, yet, the center of this knowing/perception is still focused in the specific body/mind.

Wonderful sentiments Bud..thanks for sharing. I love your insights on compassion and the animal souls I can identify somewhat having experience with 'rescue kitties'. Exactly - the love your neighbor thing has to extend to animals as well..very good point! I think my take on the whole vegetarian/vegan thing as far as it effecting 'spiritual vibration/consciousness' is that it matters where the food comes from, but not if it's vegetarian or not. What I am specifically thinking of is milk/cheese/etc. that come from organic/private farms where the animals are treated well and have good lives. In that case, I would think dairy and eggs would be a welcome addition to the diet. This is kind of how I see my diet nowadays.. Protein from dairy/eggs/shakes and, in light of this discussion, I really know I should be looking for organic, farm-raised.. and, then, carbs from grains, fruits, vegs.. Also, in this day and age, we have the whole meal shake option.. Lifting weights, I am a big fan of the meal replacement/mass building shakes that have natural protein, carbs, and vitamins.. Things like Hemp protein can be quite effective...I think as we evolve as a species there are a larger number of us that we are finding more humane ways to consume food. And, then, I also see the possibility of not needing any material sustenance..the whole 'breatharian' thing. Like that cat Prahlad Jani who hasn't eaten or drank anything for over 70 years.. Just lives off life force/pranic energy. Well I know this is possible and quite effective from the spiritual healer I've had a chance to encounter at a very high level. Interesting tidbit, when this guy was on the earth plane and was healing mass amounts of people, he really didn't need to eat or sleep..when the German gov't prohibited him from healing, that's when he would eat/sleep more. I experienced this on a small level when traveling with medical doctors up and down the east coast of the USA..We really wouldn't get hungry or tired after long hours as long as we were serving the people with the free medical lectures on spiritual healing.. We were in this energy, that could be physically felt as current many times, known as the 'healing stream' in English.. I just think it was a high heart/love energy that existed because of our intentions to help suffering people. Some of those MD's were pretty amazing in their kindheartedness, compassion, and overall spiritual energy.. They traveled all over the world on their own dime giving these lectures on spiritual healing. (Like some of these guys would go up to, like, Yellowknife, in the Yukon and really remote areas!) Very inspirational for me to spend time with these folks...I know what's possible..at least to some degree!

Yeah shortcake.. Some music can 'melt your mind'/stop your thoughts because your mind gets totally occupied trying to comprehend the complex harmonics:

Welcome!

It's 'Natural Calm' dude.. 'Natural Calm'! Natural Calm! Extra, extra! Get it while it lasts! Natural Calm everybody! Calm it down with Natural Calm! 'Easy-Peasy' is the way to go with..Natural Calm! https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Vitality-Supplement-Raspberry-Lemon/dp/B00BPUY3W0/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1514007294&sr=8-3&keywords=natural%2Bcalm%2Bmagnesium%2Bpowder&th=1

Unlimited Love Buddy Bud Budson..I agree with some of what you say here for sure. I’d sooner give my own life than torture another living being so I could simply continue to exist on this physical plane. What kind of life would it be after that anyway? As far as murder goes - Obviously that word usually has a negative connotation. But what of cultures throughout history that have practiced consuming the flesh of living beings (including humans) who have crossed over? Some have done this to show that, once the physical body dies, the spirit ceases to exist in it. It’s always been a mystery to me about people who are so concerned with a loved ones remains after their spirit has left that body. Actually, to be perfectly honest, it has always kind of creeped me out! Or, perhaps, I just feel badly for a person who believes the spirit of Life is contained only within the physical body. I’ve never seen a dead body and perceived it to be anything other than an inanimate object, devoid of any human life..For me, it becomes a different kind of life, kind of like looking at soil or earth. The vehicle has ceased to be used by the spirit and, now, it becomes new potential soil/matter for physicality again somewhere down the line. The loved one I knew in that body is very ‘alive’ and free to me - released from such a small, confined form. There is absolutely zero identification left for me with a body of a loved one who has crossed over. But their spirit is very much 'alive' and BIG to me now. In certain instances, depending on the relationship, the feeling can be that their 'with me' in a positive manner. I’ve experimented with total vegetarianism in the past for the express purpose of seeing if it would ‘raise my vibration’, or simply just make me feel better. Surprisingly to me, it had no effect. I still don’t want to eat any meat of any being that has died a painful death, but I no longer look at doing this as something that changes my emotional state. I’ve talked to a number of other people about this over the years and their experiences seem to parallel mine. But, that being said, there is a big exception to this. On a fair amount of occasions a person who decides to switch to vegetarianism has been living a very unhealthy lifestyle of junk food/fast food/etc. In their case, the decision to switch to vegetarianism is a symbol of totally changing the way they take care of their physical bodies. So the health turnaround that many experience is because they have started to eat much healthier across the board, high quality foods, not because they gave up meat. Anyway, before my own experimentations with this and talking with other people about it, the idea that you expressed originally about vegetarianism made complete logical sense to me and, still, I’m not sure why this isn’t the case in my practical life and those of some others I know. Another interesting tidbit, the few very great spiritual healers throughout history ate and slept very little on a daily basis. They were vibrating so high, they were so full of love consciousness, they were living on that energy. In one of the spiritual healing groups I was in, there was a teaching that you could be able to drink poison and not have it effect you negatively. Not that this was EVER encouraged!LOL.. But it came about because the person on who the group’s teachings were based (many believe it was the big JC’s last lifetime as a healer in 20th century Germany) went through many experiences that would of killed other people and survived. I actually have a respect for those ‘born-again’ christian type groups who stick their hand in a bag of rattlesnakes and things of that nature. I mean as long as they don’t have dependents and are ready to cross over. Simply because it shows they truly take their spiritual development seriously and are willing to put their life on the line for it. It really seems that’s the type of dedication needed - or, at least, the type of dedication Life eventually forces a person into anyway. Anyway Buddy Budlove, I hope you don’t think I’m messing with you too much. I’ve read some of your other posts and I feel like you have good humility and compassion chops..and whenever I come across people like you, I want to ‘pick your brain’ so to speak - It’s like a, ‘How is that cat embodying that state to that degree and how can I do it?!’ I am now convinced that Life has put people who are more loving and compassionate than I am into my life (as, like, my main friends I mean) because, years ago, I expressed that desire ‘to the Universe’ to want to really rise in love consciousness like the spiritual healers I so much admire. (Working on sending you the) Unlimited Love, -Lex

This has been my experience as well lerner..as surprised as I am about it!

Yeah, realizations like this can happen in a moment, but I think it’s a helpful idea to place an emphasis on the fact that one has planted a seed and it has to be cared for and allowed to grow. It’s something I continually need to remind myself because, in my own life experience, the time for the seed to continue to grow seems quite long relative to my lifespan. I really feel the physical lifespan is disproportionate to the time it takes for the seed to grow - IMO, I feel it would be much more helpful if the lifespan was akin to the oak tree, which, in a number of cases, is several hundred years.

BES - You sound like a very strong soul to want to continue on the earth plane after all that has happened to you. I’m sure you, whether wittingly or unwittingly, are a teacher/inspiration to those around you demonstrating a more effective, 'peace-bringing' outlook to have with Life, as well as how to live with a more open, compassionate heart.

RIghto lerner - if we act 'as if' we can cultivate more positive situations for ourselves and others that can lessen overall suffering. You say that Buddy as if it's beyond a strategy to lessen one's suffering. I've always looked at the cultivation of the outlook you describe as a means to overcome a decision made in ignorance - that of the creation of the idea of separation; separate beings, etc. The way I currently view things: If we can get to a place where, experientially, we don't judge/experience what we most normally would experience as physical/emotional pain, then we have overcome something created without a lot of wisdom and, thereby, can create a new situation devoid of pain/suffering, whether it be physical or emotional. Sensation just becomes sensation, not 'good' or 'bad'. The way I currently see it is that the cultivation of a continual love for all things arising, if possible, may be the key to all of this.

If you're awake and alone, it could be a prompting of your body to meditate. It can be a really powerful time to meditate, and your body may be trying to give you a signal. I recommend using a simple position recommended to me by a very powerful spiritual healer: http://www.livingflow.net/bruno-groening-healing-heilstrom/ I don't do it exactly as described on that page. I just sit in the position recommended, focus on seeing if I can 'tune into' a healing stream/Love (think of it like tuning into a radio broadcast) and think about radiating love outward (and inward) to whatever/whoever comes up in my mind. Try it for 10 minutes for a few days and see if it doesn't improve the way you feel.

Oh, and don't forget to pray to God..One of the most highly effective forms of prayer - sometimes known as 'The Atheist in a Foxhole' prayer

You can overcome it and change things..Yes, look for the proof definitely! Look for 'miraculous' physical and emotional healings - don't settle for any so-called 'teachers' words..Look for the actions.. Not the ones talking about any 'awakening', 'enlightenment', or anything like that.. Look for the actual happenings that improve life and take away suffering from others.. These are usually the ones who say little and who have great love in their heart and demonstrate it all the time. And never will you hear them talk about being awakened, enlightened, or anything like that.. you will see true humility, love, and compassion..and actual demonstration of the power of what true humility, love, and compassion can do. No egoic claims..no trying to look like the 'spiritual master'.. just the opposite.. quiet..unassuming.. shunning the spotlight...etc. Anyway, imo, it's not like any of have a choice in any of this anyway. Life will force all of us to this place sooner or later - if not in this lifetime, maybe in the 312th lifetime from now ;-)

There are also demonstrations of people who have overcome suffering in this world. People who go to torturous deaths singing and laughing. Or the buddhist monks who self-immolate sitting stock still and seeming to be in no apparent pain. There is at least proof that we can overcome what most of us perceive to be a very unfair setup - even if some part of us knows we set it up in the first place!;-)

We're all doing the best we can with what we know. Who knows what people who commit acts that cause great suffering have went through themselves? They are doing the best they can with what they know. I don't believe in punishment - but I do believe in doing everything possible to alleviate suffering. Sure, I think certain people have to be isolated from society/euthanized to lessen suffering - but not as punishment... Just to lessen suffering. It's not that I'm saying that life isn't valuable, but I think what is definitely more valuable is not suffering. Do we learn great lessons and grow spiritually through suffering? In most cases I would say definitely. Is it ethically right? Is the end justified by the means? Throughout history, has this ever worked out? But I am much more interested in overcoming any karma that might exist rather than debating over what it really is and why it might be there. One strategy I find helpful is cultivating an active love for Life. Let's say you live in a country run by a ruthless dictator. If you cultivate a love for that dictator perhaps you can rise in power and, one day, overcome that dictator. Maybe one day you can change the paradigm of 'learning through suffering'. In other sense, by cultivating a love for Life, maybe you will come to see that you are that Life you are loving. Maybe it will dissolve ideas of separation and, perhaps, you could overcome the ignorant part of yourself that setup a paradigm of suffering and the idea that we are separate beings, and replace/overcome this ignorance with a wiser part of yourself and really change things up!

Von Mueller's Syrup

I like what you're saying here Everything. About the focus on simplicity and letting go. But I wonder about your feelings of the few truly powerful spiritual healers who have talked about focusing on love. Now it's my current theory that, as we let go of our egoic fears/attachments that, perhaps, what is left over is a loving, kind, compassionate nature. Perhaps, without egoic fears/insecurities, we are naturally that way. But I wonder if the recommendation to focus on loving Life, ourselves, and others is a way to drop those egoic fears. So a type of 'relaxed focus' as we go about our day and interactions on this type of love. An online friend in this group and I were talking about this in regards to mantra the other day - He was saying he focuses his mantra practice on it benefitting all beings. So even when just allowing, I think we still feel we are making choices and decisions on where we focus our attention. I hope you see what I am driving at here. It's kind of hard to put into words, but it's been something I've been working with for the last couple of years. A kind of 'relaxed, focus' on things - in my case, raising my love consciousness being very interested in spiritual healing, but in a very relaxed, simple way. Because I do also believe, when we start to make things complicated, at least in the areas we are speaking of, they tend to lose their power. Every moment of our lives can be an opportunity for our spiritual 'practice'/development imo.

Hey ST, that's really well put. That was a big part of John Cage's philosophy. Every sound can be music, it's just how you choose to hear it!

True that steve. Or it's about the musician playing the music and listening. When improvising, the ideal state for me is to be like I'm singing through the instrument and not thinking about what I am playing..I am just listening to what's 'coming through'. It's just like having a good spoken conversation with someone. You're not really thinking about everything you're 'going to' say. You're listening to the other person and then responding - but it's all flowing very naturally and automatically. It's when you don't resonate/gel with the people you're talking to (or the musicians you're playing with) that the conversation becomes stilted/forced and your thinking mind starts getting involved - the flow is interrupted. Usually, these types of conversations don't last too long