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My favorite definitions of Shikantaza: One way to categorize the meditation practice of shikantaza, or “just sitting,” is as an objectless meditation. This is a definition in terms of what it is not. One just sits, not concentrating on any particular object of awareness, unlike most traditional meditation practices, Buddhist and non-Buddhist, that involve intent focus on a particular object. Such objects traditionally have included colored disks, candle flames, various aspects of breath, incantations, ambient sound, physical sensations or postures, spiritual figures, mandalas, teaching stories, or key phrases from such stories. Some of these concentration practices are in the background of the shikantaza practice tradition, or have been included with shikantaza in its actual lived experience by practitioners. But objectless meditation focuses on clear, nonjudgmental, panoramic attention to all of the myriad arising phenomena in the present experience. Such objectless meditation is a potential universally available to conscious beings, and has been expressed at various times in history. This just sitting is not a meditation technique or practice, or any thing at all. “Just sitting” is a verb rather than a noun, the dynamic activity of being fully present. … it is objectless not only in terms of letting go of concentration objects, but also in the sense of avoiding any specific, limited goals or objectives… just sitting is not a technique or a means to some resulting higher state of consciousness, or any particular state of being… … [for Dogen] simply just sitting is expressed as concentration on the self in its most delightful wholeness, in total inclusive interconnection with all of phenomena… Taigen Dan Leighton The prototype for the unity of practice and enlightenment, as all Dogen students know, is “zazen- only” (shikan taza). In a nutshell, it consists of four aspects: (1) It is that seated meditation which is objectless, imageless, themeless, with no internal or external devices or supports, and is nonconcentrative, decentered, and open-ended. Yet it is a heightened, sustained, and total awareness of the self and the world. (2) It seeks no attainment whatsoever, be it enlightenment, an extraordinary religious experience, supernormal powers, or buddhahood, and accordingly, is non-teleological [lacks “purposeful development towards a final end”] and simply ordinary. (3) It is “the body and mind cast off” (shinjin datsuraku) as the state of ultimate freedom, also called “the samadhi of self-fulfilling activity” (jijuyu zammai). And (4) it requires single-minded earnestness, resolve, and urgency on the part of the meditator. Hee-Jin Kim For Dogen, seated meditation, or zazen, was the very essence of the Buddhist religion… the practice of this zazen was not simply an important aid to, nor even a necessary condition for, enlightenment and liberation; it was in itself sufficient: it was enough, he said, “just to sit” (shikan taza), without resort to the myriad subsidiary exercises of Buddhist spiritual life. Indeed (at least when rightly practiced) zazen was itself enlightenment and liberation: it was the ultimate cognition, the state he called “nonthinking” (hi shiryo) that revealed the final reality of things; it was the mystic apotheosis [exalted or glorified example], the “sloughing off of body and mind” (shinjin datsuraku), as he said, that released man into this reality. Such practice, then (at least when rightly understood) was its own end, as much the expression as it was the cause of transcendence: it was “practice based on enlightenment” (shojo no shu); it was the activity of buddhahood itself (butsugyo). As such, this was, ultimately speaking, no mere human exercise: it was participation in the primordial ascesis (gyoji, continuous practice) of being itself, that which brought forth matter and mind, heaven and earth, the sun, moon, stars, and constellations. … For Menzan [1683-1769, “the chief architect of modern Soto dogmatics”] and his church, Dogen’s zazen is like no other: it is the practice of “nonthinking,” a subtle state beyond either thinking or not thinking and distinct from traditional Buddhist psychological exercises of concentration and contemplation; it is “just sitting,” a practice in which… all striving for religious experience, all expectations of satori, is left behind. This zazen is nothing but “the mystic practice of original verification” (honsho myoshu), through which from the very start one directly experiences the ultimate nature of mind. Carl Bielefeldt Shikantaza…is the mind of somebody facing death. Let us imagine that you are engaged in a duel of swordsmanship of the kind that used to take place in ancient Japan. As you face your opponent you are unceasingly watchful, set, ready. Were you to relax your vigilance even momentarily, you would be cut down instantly. A crowd gathers to see the fight. Since you are not blind you see them from the corner of your eye, and since you are not deaf you hear them. But not for an instant is your mind captured by these impressions. When you thoroughly practice shikantaza you will sweat—even in the winter… Sit with such intensely heightened concentration, patience, and alertness that is someone were to touch you while you are sitting, there would be an electric spark! Sitting thus, you return naturally to the original Buddha, the very nature of your being. Hakuun Ryoko Yasutani The style of meditation called “silent illumination” [Ch. mozhao, Jap. mokusho; the early Caodong/Soto meditation practice that Rujing and Dogen came to call shikantaza] is one of the great practices of the Chan tradition… This practice originated in India, where it was called shamtatha- vipashyana, or serenity-insight. The aim of this practice is a mind unburdened with thoughts. This leads the mind to profound awareness about its own state… Silent illumination is a very peaceful style of meditation in which there is not one thought, yet your mind is extremely clear. I use three phases to describe this state: first, “bright and open”; second, “no scattered thoughts”; and third, “not one thought.” When the mind drops all use of words, it becomes bright and open; this is the first characteristic. Next, “no scattered thoughts” refers to single-mindedness—total concentration on the method. But when you finally forget the method itself, and no one thought remains, that is genuine serenity. Ultimately, Silent Illumination is the method of no method… Silent illumination is just dropping all thoughts and words and going directly to the state of Chan. I do not recommend this method to people too often… You can be just idling, having very subtle thought, and believe you are practicing Silent Illumination. You can be silent without illuminating anything. Sheng Yen Suzuki Roshi always talked about shikantaza as one’s day-to-day, moment-to-moment life of selflessness… Suzuki Roshi’s simple day-to-day activities—the way he would sit down and stand up, eat his dinner, walk, put on his sandals—this was his expression of shikantaza. Everyday activity with no selfishness—just doing the thing for the thing—this was his shikantaza. We usually say that shikantaza means “just sitting.” And that’s true. Just putting on your shoes, too. But this “just” has a special meaning. It means “without going any further” or “without adding anything extra.” … But the shikantaza, or the “just doing,” is the selfless activity of just doing within the dream… I think about shikantaza as a state in which our thought and our activity have no gap… Sojun Mel Weitsman Neuroscientists use these words to describe what we call shikantaza: panoramic receptive non- judgmental attention. This is different than focused attention, which includes such practices as breath meditation, where the attentional field is narrowed and "pointed" toward an object. Different parts of the brain are activated during these two types of meditation. Roshi Joan Halifax Katagiri used to say shikantaza isn't anything in particular and that also fits for the Soto school's lack of single view on the issue. Katagiri also called following the breath shikantaza but once I could follow the breath, told me to not attach to anything. At least several of his successors, though, just teach following the breath as shikantaza. Dogen's brilliant reframe on this practice and reconstruction of the tradition was based on adding “wholeheartedness” which changed silent illumination into “earnest vivid sitting” (literal trans. of shikantaza). RE: “wholeheartedness,” what I encourage is full devotion to no particular thing. That's a little different from seeing wholeheartedness as a state. For one thing, I emphasize the “whole” and “heart” parts of wholehearted – nothing left out, including the flowing emotions. Nothing left out includes samadhi states, dhyanic states, and insight/realization as well. But like a falling maple leaf, showing front, showing back. Dosho Port I would say shikantaza is natural awareness as is (so that the just sitting is indeed “just” “sitting”). Awareness is being human, so there is not a need to “stay aware” (or a particular state that we need to add). Likewise, it is not a matter of making “effort at awareness.” Elihu Genmyo Smith When we sit facing the wall, there is nothing in front of us as object. There is only the wall. We have no object in our mind because we don’t visualize anything, don’t concentrate on a mantra, and don’t pay any special attention to the breath. We just sit. Still many different kinds of thought come and go naturally. It is very clear that thoughts, emotions, and daydreams are illusions like bubbles rising in water. We let go of them. No clinging to them, chasing after them, or pushing them away. We really do nothing but sit. This is what Dogen Zenji meant when he says, “thinking of not-thinking.” We cannot say that there is no thinking. And we cannot say that we are thinking. “Thinking of not-thinking is the precise expression of the reality of mind in zazen. It is like a car engine idling. When the transmission is in neutral, even though the engine is moving, the car does not move. Even though thoughts are coming and going, we take no action based on those thoughts. Thoughts are simply idling. We don’t create karma. This is what Dogen Zenji meant in Zuimonki when he said zazen is the true form of the self and non- doing or not action… In Shobogenzo Zazenshin, Dogen Zenji said, “In order to think (shiryo) of not-thinking (fu-shiryo), we use beyond-thinking (hi-shiryo). This means that what is happening in our zazen is not a matter of thinking or not-thinking. We “do” nothing; neither “to think” nor “not to think.” We put our entire self on the ground of beyond-thinking. On that ground, sometimes many thoughts come up, sometimes, no thoughts arise… In our daily lives, we try to study from teachers and books to correct the distortions of self- centeredness. But in zazen we let go of all thoughts, even thoughts of making corrections… Our practice of just sitting is the practice of the bodhisattva vows and repentance. Buddhas and ancestors’ zazen is the vow to save all living beings… Shohaku Okumura Do not concentrate on any particular object or control your thought. When you maintain a proper posture and your breathing settles down, your mind will naturally become tranquil. When various thoughts arise in your mind, do not become caught up by them or struggle with them; neither pursue nor try to escape from them. Just leave thoughts alone, allowing them to come up and go away freely. The essential thing in doing zazen is to awaken (kakusoku) from distraction and dullness, and return to the right posture moment by moment… Dogen called his meditation practice shikantaza, which literally means “just sitting.” In shikantaza we sit without the koans used in Rinzai Zen. In our zazen, body and mind sit without any techniques—koans, mantras, visualizations, and so on. we find an upright posture, breathe through our nose quietly and deeply from our abdomen, and keep our eyes open. We let go of whatever thoughts arise within our mind. It is simply sitting upright without any expectation or gaining idea. Dogen’s essential teaching is that practice and enlightenment are one. Practice is not a method to make a deluded person into an enlightened being. Practice without self-centeredness is itself enlightenment. This kind of zazen practice teaches us to sit upright wherever we are. Sometimes our mind is calm and sometimes our mind is busy. Sometimes we feel peaceful, and sometimes we are in the midst of a storm. We neither cling to nor avoid any condition, but keep sitting in an upright posture. We try to live in this upright manner, not only in zazen but in our daily lives. When we deviate from uprightness, we are aware of it and return to it. Soto Zen Buddhism International Center (Sotoshu Shumucho) Once you realize that you are thinking when you are supposed to be doing nothing, and return to zazen, the thoughts which appeared as clearly before as if they were pictures on a TV. screen, disappear as suddenly as if you had switched off the TV. Only the wall is left in from of you. For an instant… this is it. This is zazen. Yet again thoughts arise by themselves. Again you return to zazen and they disappear. We simply repeat this; this is called kakusoku (awareness of Reality). The most important point is to repeat this kakusoku billions of times. This is how we should practice zazen. If we practice in this way we cannot help but realize that our thoughts are really nothing but secretions of the brain. Just as our salivary glands secrete saliva, or as our stomachs secrete gastric juices, so our thoughts are nothing but secretions of the brain. Uchiyama Kosho We say our practice should be without gaining ideas, without any expectations, even of enlightenment. This does not mean, however, just to sit without any purpose. This practice free from gaining ideas is based on the Prajnaparamita Sutra. However, if you are not careful, the sutra itself will give you a gaining idea. It says, “form is emptiness and emptiness is form.” But if you attach to that statement, you are liable to be involved in dualistic ideas: here is you, form, and here is emptiness, which you are trying to realize through your form. So “form is emptiness, and emptiness is form” is still dualistic. But fortunately our teaching goes on to say, “Form is form and emptiness is emptiness.” Here there is no dualism. When you find it difficult to stop your mind while you are sitting and when you are still trying to stop your mind, this is the stage of “form is emptiness and emptiness is form.” But while you are practicing in the dualistic way, more and more you will have oneness with your goal. And when your practice becomes effortless, you can stop your mind. This is the stage of “form is form and emptiness is emptiness.” To stop your mind does not mean to stop the activities of mind. It means your mind pervades your whole body. Your mind follows your breathing. With your full mind you form the mudra in your hands. With your whole mind you sit with painful legs without being disturbed by them. This is to sit without any idea of gain… Practice does not mean that whatever you do, even lying down, is zazen. When the restrictions you have do not limit you, this is what we mean by practice. When you say, “Whatever I do is Buddha nature, so it doesn’t matter what I do, and there is no need to practice zazen,” that is already dualistic understanding of our everyday life. If it really does not matter, there is no need for you even to say so. As long as you are concerned about what you do, that is dualistic. If you are not concerned about what you do, you will not say so. When you sit, you will sit. When you eat, you will eat. That is all. If you say, “It doesn’t matter,” it means that you are making some excuse to do something in your own way with your small mind. It means you are attached to some particular thing or way. That is not what we mean when we say, “Just to sit is enough,” or “Whatever you do is zazen.” Of course whatever we do is zazen, but if so, there is no need to say it. Strictly speaking, any effort we make is not good for our practice because it creates waves in our mind. It is impossible, however, to attain absolute calmness of our mind without any effort. We must make some effort, but we must forget ourselves in the effort we make. In this realm there is no subjectivity or objectivity. Our mind is just calm, without even any awareness. In this unawareness, every effort and every idea and thought will vanish. So it is necessary for us to encourage ourselves and to make an effort up to the last moment, when all effort disappears. You should keep you mind on your breathing until you are not aware of your breathing. Shunryu Suzuki … These sages universally maintain that absolute reality and the relative world are “not-two” (which is the meaning of “nondual”), much as a mirror and its reflections are not separate, or an ocean is one with its many waves. So the “other world” of Spirit and “this world” of separate phenomena are deeply and profoundly “not-two,” and this nonduality is a direct and immediate realization which occurs in certain meditative states—in other words, seen with the eye of contemplation—although it then becomes a very simple, very ordinary perception, whether you are meditating or not. Every single thing you perceive is the radiance of Spirit itself, so much so, that Spirit is not seen apart from that thing: the robin sings, and just that is it, nothing else. This becomes your constant realization, through all changes of state, very naturally, just so. And this releases you from the basic insanity of hiding from the Real. But why is it, then, that we ordinarily don’t have that perception? All the great Nondual wisdom traditions have given a fairly similar answer to that question. We don’t see that Spirit is fully and completely present right here, right now, because our awareness is clouded with some sort of avoidance. We do not want to be choicelessly aware of the present; rather, we want to run away from it, or run after it, or we want to change it, alter it, hate it, love it, loathe it, or in some way agitate to get ourselves into, or out of, it. We will do anything except come to rest in the pure Presence of the present. We will not rest with pure Presence; we want to be elsewhere, quickly. The Great Search is the game, in its endless forms… ... it becomes obvious that you are not entering this state, but rather, it is a state that, in some profound and mysterious way, has been your primordial condition from time immemorial. You have, in fact, never left this state for a second… But if that is so, then why even do spiritual practice? Isn’t that just another form of the Great Search? Yes, actually, spiritual practice is a form of the Great Search, and as such, it is destined to fail. But that is exactly the point. You and I are already convinced that there are things that we need to do in order to realize Spirit. We feel that there are places that Spirit is not (namely, in me), and we are going to correct this state of affairs. Thus, we are already committed to the Great Search, and so nondual meditation makes use of the fact and engages us in the Great Search in a particular and somewhat sneaky fashion… The essence of Dzogchen… in a nutshell: If Spirit has any meaning, it must be omnipresent, or all-pervading and all-encompassing. There can’t be a place Spirit is not, or it wouldn’t be infinite. Therefore, Spirit has to be completely present, right here, right now, in your own awareness. That is, your own present awareness, precisely as it is, without changing it or altering it in any way, is perfectly and completely permeated by Spirit. Furthermore, it is not that Spirit is present but you need to be enlightened in order to see it. It is not that you are one with Spirit but just don’t know it yet. Because that would also imply that there is some place Spirit is not. No, according to Dzogchen, you are always already one with Spirit, and that awareness is always already fully present, right now. You are looking directly at Spirit, with Spirit, in every act of awareness. There is nowhere Spirit is not. Further, if Spirit has any meaning at all, then it must be eternal, or without beginning and end. If Spirit had a beginning in time, then it would be strictly temporal, it would not be timeless and eternal. And this means, as regards your own awareness, that you cannot become enlightened. You cannot attain enlightenment. If you could attain enlightenment, then that state would have a beginning in time, and so it would not be true enlightenment. Rather, Spirit, and enlightenment, has to be something that you are fully aware of right now. Something you are already looking at right now… Meditation rearranges the puzzle; Dzogchen doesn’t touch a thing. Thus the pointing-out instructions usually begin, “Without correcting or modifying your present awareness in any way…”… Ken Wilber Please train yourself thus: In the seen, there will be just the seen. In the heard, there will be just the heard. In the sensed, there will be just the sensed. In the cognized, there will be just the cognized. When for you, in the seen there is just the seen, in the heard just the heard, in the sensed just the sensed, in the cognized just the cognized, then you will not identify with the seen, and so on. And if you do not identify with them, you will not be located in them; if you are not located in them, there will be no here, no there, or in-between. And this will be the end of suffering. … In this way he abides contemplating the body as body [feelings as feeling, mind as mind, mind- objects as mind-objects] internally, or he abides contemplating the body as body externally, or he abides contemplating the body as a body both internally and externally. Or else he abides contemplating in the body its arising factors, or he abides contemplating in the body its vanishing factors, or he abides contemplating in the body both its arising and vanishing factors. Or else mindfulness that “there is body” is simply established in him to the extent necessary for bare knowledge and mindfulness…. Shakyamuni Buddha

Hello, This is a summary of "How to" notes that I have compiled from various books/sources on meditation. Most specifically the "Natural State" or "Ordinary Mind" form the Tibetan Mahamudra practice. While it is based on the Kagyu School of Tibetan Buddhism it is also identical to the Japanese Zen tradition of Soto where the state of Shikantaza is practiced. Shikantaza is also known as "Serene Reflection" or "Silent Illumination" from the Caodong (Chinese version of soto zen) School. Essentially Mahamudra and Shikantaza are paths of enlightenment in and of themselves. Enlightened states of non-attaining, and non-thought, uncontrived states of mind. Sometimes they are known as the culmination of Shamatha and Vispashyana, but from the Buddhist world they are their own entity and beast. As Tibetans refer to this state as the The true nature of the mind, original face, natural state, etc. These act as mindfulness guides that can be implemented in sitting, walking, or activity through out the day to help stabilize one in the natural state of Mahamudra or Shikantaza: Attention Revolution (Alan Wallace) Let your mind be like the sky The sky never reacts It doesn't stop anything from moving through it It doesn't hold onto anything that's present nor does it control anything Whatever thoughts or mental images arise, you simply observe them Without distraction and without grasping Without being either attracted or repulsed by them Just let them be Instead of letting thoughts go, you let them be Don't prefer one kind of thought to another Don't even prefer the absence of thoughts to the presence of thoughts They are not the problem Being distracted by and grasping onto thoughts is the problem Let the space of awareness remain as expansive as possible When thoughts arise, let them play out their course Regardless of their nature or duration It is crucial to observe the movement of thoughts without intervention Mahamudra Teaching (Garchen Rinpoche) Stay just with your thought as it rises, so as to not give it form, or side with the thought as good, bad, or any reference. When mindful of giving form to thought or mental happening, just let your mind relax. Don't investigate further (This is to not attach to it). We establish this view of "nothing to see, nothing to objectify, nothing to project. We imbue this view with certainty Don't get discouraged Simply do not follow after the thoughts Don't make any commentary on the thought, let it rise then dissolve As any thought arises, you just see it Any conceptual thought that arises has no any essence No essence at all There is nothing to follow Not rejecting the suffering, not attaching to the happiness Whatever comes let it come, just sustain the Mahamudra Clarifying the Natural State: Dakpo Tashi Namgyal Undistractedly maintain the natural state of your mind with a naturally aware presence, no matter how it is or what is perceived or felt. Continue the practice with unbound ease without pinpointing whatever is experienced Take care not to stray into intellectual analysis, thoughtless calm, savoring a meditative experience or hankering after the ensuing certainty. Do not entertain any ambitions about what should or should not be cultivated by meditating. Do not be happy when calm or unhappy when thoughts move; rather, relax your attention loosely. Do not inhibit one thing while promoting another. Leave your attention as it naturally is – relaxed and free. Zazen Instructions (Global soto-zen.net) Do not concentrate on any particular object or control your thought. When various thoughts arise in your mind, do not become caught up by them or struggle with them; Neither pursue nor try to escape from them. Just leave your thoughts alone, allowing them to come up and go away freely. The essential thing in doing zazen is to awaken from distraction and dullness and return to the right posture moment by moment. Rules for Meditation from Dogen (FUKANZAZENGI) Cut all ties, give up everything Think of neither good nor evil, consider neither right nor wrong Control mind function, will, consciousness, memory, perception and understanding You must not strive thus to become Buddha

These are also guidelines I use as I do walking meditations within nature. Given from Clarifying the Natural State in Mahamudra Tradition. Elevate your experience and remain wide-open like the sky. Expand your mindfulness and remain pervasive like the earth. Steady your attention and remain unshakable like a mountain Brighten your awareness and remain shining like a flame. (Or visualize the light within - or something more powerful such as the sun) Clear your thought free wakefulness and remain lucid like a crystal.

Love this part too.

Hello bums, Given that there are no short cuts, some paths tend to be a little less vague, covered in scripture, history, dogma, etc. Quite a vague question to ask, but as most may agree, all paths lead towards the same realization. I was hoping to get sum Bum perspectives on what some of you may think (or believe) by your own knowledge and experience, to be the most straight forward path. A lot of room for interpretation, but given your answer perhaps you could fill that interpretation with your own 2 cents as to why. Feel free to comment.

I believe Ramana Maharshi's method of self inquiry is the most direct practice to acheive this. https://hridaya-yoga.com/hridaya-yoga-articles/the-self-inquiry-method-of-ramana-maharshi/

Haha i tried for a couple hours straight. It got to the point where I was noticing some usually "un-recognizable" habits of ego clinging. I can see how it would work given it 100% for a month, but also enjoy life a lot less by constantly noting in the present moment.

Seems pretty boring. Even the buddha said they arise, its just that you dont cling to them. Maybe this was misinterpreted?

Since were on the subject of view shattering techniques. Has anyone implemented extreme noting in their life? Or know of others with their success or failed experiences with it? http://www.tathagata.org/DhammaTalks/Instructions/Mahasi_Instruction.html Likes? Dislikes? Modifications?

Seems to be some frustration in your response, I was just asking what were YOUR results because you seem to be very wise. I looked into the method, its known as tratak. https://zerotoinfinitude.com/tratak-meditation-method Thank you for sharing your experience.

Is there a reason from your own experience or tradition that this suggestion of yours derives from? What type of results have you experienced from this?

Sounds fun, but also seems like a tremendous amount of your every day: Meditation Fighting Resistance training Qigong/neigong Lets say you spend an hour on each, thats 4 hours in a given typical day. Not to mention other time that would consist of: Learning Transportation/commuting Eating And most importantly the means for your survival (job, offgrid self provider, etc.) This typically for a given person in modern society is around 10 hours (1 hr lunch, 1hr commute, and bare minum standard of 8 hours on the clock) Also when you get serious in spiritual development, 1 hour is not enough to meditate, or practice internal alchemy. Some people are doing horse stance for hours before they even sit down. But also what about time for: Family & Community Professional or business developement Buying/growing food Shelter maintenance Im not saying it isnt possible. Prioritizing time helps you structure your day. This is very important so you can be in flow state and move from one thing to the next without thinking, anxiety, etc. Just consider that a lot of society, family, and community influence affect your actions, time, and decisions. All the more important to allocate time for each endeavor and stick to it so you can evolve. I mention all this because I have gone through physical phases of warrior training and as certain aspects in my life gain more importance and precendence I shift the majority of my energy towards those engagements.

The buddha taught that nothing whatsoever should be clung to. "Nothing is worth adhering to" Contemplating this wisdom... given such path(s) as daoist internal alchemy, a strict energy cultivation sequence of work. Is then clinging to such path actually a hindrance to liberation? Or is there a natural unfolding and letting go of details after a certain point as "intuition/source/true self " guides a person to their own unique path of liberation of dissolved ego, breaking the tethers of karma, and acheiving immortality? If so, at which point(s)? Or can the only true path of enlightenment be unfolded through ones own silence? As Ramana Maharsi's staple of "self inquiry" is the only necessity for enlightenment.

Samatha meditation. Single pointed awareness on breath until absorption. The point being the tip of the nostrils (as in not following the breath, one point). I also like switching from the object focus of breath to the object focus being my mind in between thoughts. That stillness becomes the object itself. Meditate on that stillness I will.

I'm not sure if the Kundalini is absolutely necessary for realization, awakening, enlightenment. Or is it? What are your thoughts bums? If it is a prerequisite, should one worry about attaining it (prioritize)? Or will it unfold naturally as one progresses among a humble path to samadhi/realization through Samatha and Vipassana? Meaning no direct intention on energy work required as the natural unfolding of ego and dualism fades (disclaimer: I know it may be hard to distinguish because energy is interconnected to all thoughts, emotions, state of being, etc. but you get the idea) Also - Bonus question(s): Does the connection between the third eye and crown energy centers need to be opened before hand, or will the kundalini just blow through it all? Is there a difference in effect of a partially open and fully awakened third eye?

Hi Steve, With obtaining Rigpa, the most paramount moment is the direct realization of ultimate emptiness. Which then the state should be meditated on as much as conceivably possible. In regards to that initial shock, or astonishment of ultimate reality (innermost awareness). I was wondering what are yours or other thoughts on taking substances to supplement a Llama's role. Most specifically DMT. But also Ayachuaska? - If all one really needs is the first exposure to Rigpa, why not?

Just finished watching this. To summarize: AUM.... pronounced OM... Spelled: 1. A waking state (the waker and this waking world) 2. U dream (dreaming in the dream world) 3. M Deep sleep 4. (silence afterwards) Practice: 1. A Bring to mind this is my life, this is where I am, this is the earth, this is all encompassing, this is A.... 2. U... Realize I fall asleep and completely forget this world, a dream world that I am in, objects, places, people to see, U... 3. I do not experience an external world, dream world, I do not even experience myself as sleeping, the subject and object are emerged in undifferentiated blankness and yet it is an experience (The experience of absence). M.... Going through those states in AUM one feels that they are not trapped in those states. Those states appear, disappear, and play around with you the witnessing awareness. 4. As AUM fades into silence, you are the witness of that silence. (The consciousness whom "you" experiences the silence)

Your combined input. Absolutely beautiful

Hi Rene, I was just about to comment on this too! I love the simplicity and effectiveness Dzogchen entails. It is known as the doctrine free from exertion, the great completeness. I'm a little distraught however, because from what I have picked up on about it is that the realization of rigpa cannot be first be introduced without a qualified lama. However, I am skeptical of this claim because we all inherently have buddhahood within us "so they all say" Steve, Care to bite again?

Hi Aetherous, Good question. I left this open to interpretation to see what kind of responses I would get. But anything close to or similar to the enlightenment of buddhahood. That is to end the cycle of karma, realizing the emptiness of inherent existence, achieving the diamond body empowered with the 10 powers and 4 fearlessnesses. For my sake, I'm interested in attaining selflessness and maintaining innermost awareness as described in dzogchen. It gets messy when trying to relate different realizations of different paths, but you could also say comparatively becoming one with all that is, the source, tao, do I dare say god?

Silent Thunder thank you for taking the time to explain your recollections. If you don't mind me asking what particular (meditative) practices do you commit to?

Thank you for clarifying. Forgive my pesky curiosity but I have a few more questions haha. Also, I don't mind that this post sways a little off-topic but if others would like I could keep this conversation to a PM or another thread. I'm glad you mentioned it closely relates to Rigpa as I find that achieving "Innermost Awareness" closely (from my understanding) relates to "Being one with god" or "Becoming Christ consciousness" in some of the more heart based paths. I was hoping if you could clear up this comparison? My understanding of heart based paths is pretty limited, especially to mystical Christianity, but when playing with a form of heart opening from reading Michael Beckwith's book "Spiritual Liberation" I noticed great insight and results. Any familiarity with this person? Also, I haven't dived into the information of Mystical Christianity because I like to stay away from Dogma and possibly any overreaching Archons. Have you encountered any Archons or other deity forms in your path? Also is it inevitable in a Christian mystic path? Are there any loosely dogma woven paths similar to Christian Mysticism?

Wow Just checking back on this from the weekend. I'm very grateful for all of your thoughtful inputs. LimA, your perspective unfiltered through religious and path dogma is greatly appreciated (Not to mention injecting of each point). Both Jeff and you hit on the point of the Kundalini unfolding naturally, and I liked reference on the journey over the destination, Jeff, thank you for your point of different Kundalini experience perspective shines light on the vast testimonials of Kundalini experiences and what some may interpret as authentic or not. Kar3n, I believe that can not be said and encouraged enough. Jeff - What path would you say you primarily focus regarding methods for understanding the knowledge I quoted below? Would you say this is similar to the journey of realizing emptiness? As in the dependency of all phenomena? Somewhere above the realization of emptiness or entirely different from it? Below you say some can perceive this "expanding" as a "self" so I'm not sure if emptiness is a good comparison. Can you elaborate? What would you describe this "being and knowing" state as compared with other spiritual traditions? I believe this describes "selfless" in Buddhism.

Hi Dbums, The website is full of insight, experience, and recommendations. I became a member as I am interested in learning more about Taoist alchemy and similar ancient practices. Swallowing the pill, inner peace, and awakening latent abilities is the goal. Not so much as they are the end goal, but desired means to bring into my everyday. Currently my practice and path mostly consists of Qi Gong/Nei Gong/Nei Dan. However, I am open to all forms of energy and esoteric work. Cheers (Tea mug)

The good life... how would you define it? I think anything good or beautiful to such a level of awe can't be defined because by the very definition of labeling muddies the experience. As a generalization of the good life, perhaps the realization of self. What's needed to get it? I think among many states of minds, one that would lead to a good life is a sense of being fearless. Fearless in not giving a hoot to what people think of you or how society judges Fearless in embracing every challenge as an opportunity to grow Fearless to be yourself and go with your "gut" or "inner charm, voice" Fearless in trying new things whether its travel, hobbies, work, relationships Fearless in surrendering the ego, the thought and life forms you built for yourself Fearless in letting go of your comfort zones and restrictions towards realization Fearless in your path towards awakening