senseless virtue

What motivates your hobby? Are you still trying to discover what type of practice actually interests you?

Who cares about being politically correct when you can be technically correct!

What you refer to seems to be more in line with growing in tolerance and adapting to conformity. I don't see these necessarily leading to genuine respect, kindness, or compassion. I have to make such maneuvers because the benefit of doubt given to users on this forum varies quite a lot, and I'm not only referring to moderation. The variance sometimes feels rather unsettling actually, which brings us back on this current controversy about how people feel about the user "awaken". Whatever.

Sometimes I really just wonder how hard it is to develop rapport and have caring human discussions even though dissidence is present. I don't mind it though. I suppose that being curious about what others do only leads to side tracks.

Ooh, where do you find these places? Maybe I'm overly pessimistic in my observation, but I find it unreasonably hopeful thinking that a sprawling spiritual discussion forum would be an actual place of respect, kindness, and compassion. People rarely join any Internet discussions in order to have their non-virtues uprooted, but to receive grooming or have verbal wrangling with others. Nothing wrong with the ideals of peace and respect though. It just doesn't reflect our actual human condition very much. EDIT: After re-reading the above, I think I should have been more careful with the words because they can give an impression as if manners or benevolent oversight are entirely lacking in forums such as TDB. This is not the case, so I would like to apologize for my unskillful wording.

The body is an illusion, energy and its storing are illusions, and the act of "compression" doesn't mean anything else except giving apparent solidity for the mind's desire to have some squishy and graspable sensations. Energy "compression" almost certainly is a deviant way to practice because you are only playing with sensations. The authentic goal of internal skills is to access a level of inner peace where your conceptual or thinking mind stops messing with the body-mind's natural capacity to retain a stable view of non-action: You simply stop playing around with your mind. This might sound a bit technical, so I would ask that you please read it a few times with the Daoist and Buddhist philosophy of non-action in your mind. It's an important lesson. Any anxiety would be the surfacing of your own pre-existing condition(s). My advice would be to stop forcing yourself and seek a knowing teacher to help you process your existing issues first. By the way, do you even have a (good) teacher already? Self-initiation can be a painful road with its trials and errors process, and asking the Internet for advice is another unwise thing to do. But to each his or her own! Maybe I'm already giving plenty of ignorant advice here. If you receive more responses that give contradictory advice, then it could increase your anxiety and confusion. That's what self-initiation and practicing without good and knowledgeable teachers gives: you truly remain on your own. What you are experiencing and fearing would be the results of continued forcing and grasping, not correct mind training. If you overstimulate the mind or agitate the heart, then it easily leads to sensations rushing up to head.

A beautiful prayer. Full text available at Lotsawa House website: https://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/pema-lingpa/yeshe-tsogyals-prayer

When do the spiritual teachers act like dodgy salespeople? Is this behavior ever necessary for teachers in order to benefit the student? I consider dodgy salespeople as great spiritual advisors. Not because they offer good value for money or that I'm buying anything, but because their clever rationalizations and plain encouragement of greed makes it easier to see how the world is built on illusions and managing perceptions of comfort. Do we have a deal yet? Here's a bit longer TV documentary:

I think we could have more discussion about referencing, quotations, and establishing credible and trustworthy sources. Branching into a separate thread perhaps? This is the academic view chiefly if you appeal to the respect for the author. There is no need to classify plagiarism if there is no competition or anything to lose or gain. The best use of referencing simply acknowledges the reader and sets the threshold low. As an interested reader, I would rather prefer good meta information if something sounds especially appealing and worth discovering more. True enough for a casual discussion such as this.

What is this more value you refer to?

Since the love of the Buddhas has been likened to that of parents' love for their children: Could you see yourself installing enshrined images of your very own mother and father in the outhouse toilet? What type of mindfulness would such pictures result then? Personally, I wouldn't offer any type of (questionable) honor to the Buddha if the same respect wouldn't be fit for my parents, good friends, or significant other either. I think there is important merit in showing our loved ones (and with enough bodhicitta even including our enemies) that we really mean well and want to offer only the best.

Bringing up Mopai is a wonderful way to lead any discussion to men's prostates.

Thank you @centertime. Sifu Korahais seems like an agreeable and likeable person. Everything up to here seemed like it could work alright for casual practitioners, but bringing up a term like "consolidated qi" seems very excessive and way too theoretical to me. My personal experience has been that people who promote and practice energetic stimulation first of all instead of seeking calmness and mind qualities that support it will miss out the real depth of internal skills even if they seem to talk much which sounds sensible. I could be wrong here and therefore I don't wish to jump into conclusions regarding to Sifu Korahais' teachings, so I will just say that people who seek teachers could benefit from paying extra special attention to how the teacher approaches mind training and if it's truly what you are wishing to learn: How you habitually train your mind will affect you for years to come.

Sealing means that you give hugs to cuuuuuute seal pups. Proper sealing boosts oxytocin aka the cuddle hormone and makes you feel happy. There is an alternative theory in qigong practices, but it's not so adorable. It says that you should have some wise routine that ends your stillness meditation gracefully. It brings you back to full wakeful state without disturbing the precious energy you have accumulated in your lower dantian or some other relevant part of your energy-body. Some teachers argue that a proper energetic closing includes smoothing meridians of any stuck energy and cleansing the aura, but I guess it depends on the practice itself if it has any type of potential hazards or warrants extra safety measures.

Uh oh, this doesn't sound good at all. I don't think it's good for your health to continue with any Zhan Zhuang unless you receive supervised instructions and corrections from a qualified master directly.

I know two teachers with clinical training in the traditional Chinese medicine. Rudi teaches top-notch Neigong: Sifu John Dolic teaches a lot of great medical styles. https://www.qigongchinesehealth.com/ Hi there @centertime. Your terse reply leaves me curious. Have you trained with Sifu Korahais? What makes this teacher stand out favorably in your opinion?

It's true that silver has some very good properties as far as medicinal value goes, but as far as I understand these effects are for harming life to the effect of purification and expelling pathogens. Why should anyone continue to consume substantial amounts of powerful medicine that is not characteristically life supporting in order to keep their general vitality good? It doesn't seem to make much sense in my opinion.

҉ Cultivating to such a level is not easy. And yet, despite being difficult, it still simply starts from the thought occupying the present moment. We must grasp ahold of thought in the present moment, inspect it, and become its master. When our skill has evolved, we will arrive at the realm of self-fulfilling wisdom rooted in absolute reality and perfect, self-aware clarity. This is the stage of being spiritually connected to the universe, what Huang calls “integrity equaling heaven and earth.” “Wisdom rooted in absolute reality,” called bhutathata in Sanskrit, is a Buddhist term. There are ten appellations for buddhas, one of which, Tathagata, refers to this wisdom. In Chinese, bhutathata is written as “ru ru.” The first ru refers to the fundamental reality of all phenomena; two ru’s together implies manifesting in accord with this fundamental reality, without any of the striving and clinging that grow out of an individuated, distinction-making mind. It from this wisdom that all supernormal, marvelous capabilities can appear of their own spontaneous accord. Unfortunately, due to lack of alertness and awakeness that characterizes us as ordinary people, when the mysterious pass stirs and the prior heaven state reveals itself to us, we invariably miss the opportunity to make use of it. In actuality, even without any cultivation whatsoever, there are many points in a human life when the mysterious pass appears. But since we do not know what it for what it is, we do not fully experience it. For instance, when a flash of inspiration comes to a poet whose writers block had prevented him or her from finishing a poem, that moment of inspiration represents an opening of the mysterious pass. Similarly, imagine a scientist who has hit a solid brick wall in his or her research that no amount of scouring the mind can overcome. If he or she finally gives up puts everything down, prior heaven original nature might suddenly reveal itself with a bright flash of insight, making everything about the conundrum crystal clear. “Ah-hah” moments, too, indicate the activity of the mysterious pass. However, the scientist uses the activity of his or her mysterious pass to make breakthroughs in research, and the poet uses it to write poetry—they do not put the mysterious pass to use to cultivate the Dao. When artists and others use their inspiration to undertake creative efforts, they forego the opportunity to cultivate the Dao. Their inner light only flashes momentarily, and thus it does not become a source of nourishment for their minds. It is not only poets, artists, and scientists who have such experiences from time to time—all people do. Imagine one morning you awaken and the weather is perfect, like it is in Hong Kong in January, or springtime in northern China, when the warmth of the season coaxes the flowers into bloom. A gentle wind lightly brushes past you as you get out of bed, and your mind is totally free of any errant thoughts or fantasies. Your mood is already good, and you suddenly feel a sort of deep joy well up from within. At this moment, your later heaven self temporarily subsides and the prior heaven state appears to you. Yet, in a flash it is gone without you even realizing what it was. Before you know it, you are already thinking about what you need to do today, and soon enough all of the rest of your worldly affairs enter your mind. Just like this, you miss out on the mysterious pass. Because the mysterious pass is incredibly subtle, we must be always alert to the states of our own minds, constantly observing our thoughts’ vacillations between delusion and awakening. We cannot slack off. We have to be persistent, always mindfully nurturing our marvelous, empty-yet-sentient essence. It is this which is the essence of our minds; it is this which is our true nature. If we persevere, we will gradually make progress. With progress, the mysterious pass will appear more and more frequently, and our opportunities to enter it will become more and more numerous. ҉ Huang Yuanji goes on to explain that the mysterious pass is the primer for practicing Daoist internal alchemy. As though it were an electric outlet that gives electricity the moment one plugs into it, its appearance presents an extremely crucial opportunity. But Huang stresses that we must not limit ourselves to searching for the mysterious pass within very advanced stages of samadhi and tranquility. Rather, we should try and experience it in our daily lives. Doing so is a bit like the Confucian saying that Huang Yuanji borrows, “I wish for benevolence, and here benevolence is.” When Confucius said this, he meant that the state of being a person who acts benevolently is never far away from any of us. Rather, as soon as we contemplate being benevolent, then within the span of time it takes to have that thought, benevolence comes to us. Confucianism has another saying, “without leaving everyday human relations, I travel directly to the time before prior heaven was drawn.” Because the Dao is not distinct from daily life, within mundane living we can directly arrive at the prior heaven state that is like an untouched canvass. If we conclude that the Dao can only be found by cultivating in a deep state of tranquility or samadhi, then there will be no way for the Dao to be expressed in and merge into oneness with our daily lives. Moreover, even if we can reach highly advanced states when we sit in meditation, so long as we are still susceptible to plunging back into mental chaos during the rest of our daily activities, then our cultivation is unreliable. The time we can spend meditating is, after all, limited. Far more of our time must be spent experiencing life. After Huang Yuanji quotes Confucius, he describes “heavenly primordial oneness qi’s original face.” The original face of heavenly primordial oneness qi can be experienced in our daily lives, as well as in states of tranquility and concentration, when we are unknowing and unperceptive, not thinking of what is to come nor what has passed, our minds simply quiescent in the here and now. Although, at such times, our minds are empty of thoughts, within this tranquility there remains...

Introduction Daoism’s classic texts are extremely numerous. With so many other ancient writings to choose from, why base a book on discussions of ten chapters from Huang Yuanji’s Oral Record from the Hall of Joyous Teaching? I chose to do so because, both in terms of its contents and its manner of presentation, Huang Yuanji’s book is highly unique. The reasons I believe this deserve a brief explanation. The classic writings of Daoism can be divided into numerous categories. One of those categories is books created through planchette writing—these are books that were received through communication with the spiritual realm. Many internal alchemy writings dating to the Ming and Qing dynasties were transmitted from Ancestor Lü Dongbin in this way. Books of this sort were not penned by specific individuals, and rather came about through communication between people of this world and beings existing in formlessness. Sometimes their contents are not especially clear, and have a “stream of consciousness” quality to them. Another category of books was written by ancient scholars who researched deeply into Daoism. Reading huge numbers of books, they became profoundly versed in the Daoist thought. Their knowledge allowed them to write “classics” of their own, as well as to write commentaries on various important texts. The books they wrote were strong on theory and presented ideas quite systematically. However, these writers did not necessarily go deeply into Daoist practice. Often, they were members of the literati whose intellectual cultivation allowed them to write eloquently about things they had not in fact directly experienced. These scholastic commentators on the Dao are sometimes likened to people who write books on military strategy without having experienced combat. A third category of Daoist books contain the words of highly accomplished Daoist adepts—some were written by these masters themselves, and others by people who collected their sayings. The knowledge presented in these books comes from people who personally experienced Daoist practice, instead of those who thought about or imagined it. Moreover, compared with the aforementioned books that came about by using planchette writing to communicate with the heavenly realms, these books come across as more down to earth. They can serve as guides for actual practice. In my opinion, their ability to assist readers with their cultivation makes them incredibly valuable. Yet another category of Daoist books consists of books of poetry and verses written by earlier masters. Titles in this category include voluminous works of poetry by the ancestral founders of the Complete Reality school of Daoism, as well as Zhang Boduan’s Awakening to Reality. These writings are so full of coded symbols that one can study them for a very long time without gaining a clear idea of what they are meant to express. So much skill is required for one to be able to decipher these collections of verse that they sometimes feel aloof and vague. The Oral Record from the Hall of Joyous Teaching happens to be a book with none of the shortcomings of the categories listed above. Its greatest merit lies in the fact that this book consists of transcripts of Huang Yuanji’s discourses, taken down by his disciples. From what they recorded, it is clear to see that Huang was not just an authentic Daoist cultivator, but one who had reached quite a high level of realization. Many of the most important classics from different religions were also records of oral teachings given by great masters. Because the words such books contain came from the mouths of accomplished adepts, their very existence is capable of lending power to those who encounter them. Moreover, because these teachers were actual practitioners, the words they spoke were based in real experience, not imagination or academic knowledge. The Oral Record presents extremely profound information in a simple manner. Although its time period means that it was written in classical Chinese, Huang Yuanji was clearly teaching in the colloquial language of the day, yielding a text that is quite accessible and easy to understand. However, even though the book is written in a plain manner, there is nothing shallow about its contents. It contains teachings on the entire process of Daoist inner alchemy cultivation, ranging from building a foundation to the highest levels of practice. It also includes authentic explanations of fundamental theories as well as methods needed to actually start walking the path. In other words, this is a text that equally emphasizes both theory and practice. Some books are heavily pitched towards theory, but they give little insight into how one should actually practice. Other books place a lot of emphasis on the particulars of practice, to the point that they are essentially step-by-step training manuals. Such manuals do not take the reader deeply into the principles upon which practice is based. It is crucial for those of us with an interest in internal alchemy to keep in mind that Daoism’s principles and its practices must be learned side by side in order for there to be any hope of success. If one only has an idea of cultivation as a defined system of practices, but does not thoroughly understand the principles that inform cultivation, then one will practice as though blind, because one will have no idea where one is supposed to be going. Practice without a clear sense of destination becomes mechanical, and it will not allow one to enter into the higher stages. This is because is Daoist cultivation cannot be brought to fruition through mechanistic processes. What is required for real accomplishment is an elevated level of consciousness and self-awareness. Of course, if one merely nods along knowingly with the above warning, without engaging in any actual practice, then one will be just like the ancient literati who did nothing but probe into all kinds of theories. Filling one’s head with new things to think about will not bring one any closer to the path. In terms of both theory and practical instructions, the teachings in the Oral Record are very comprehensive. The book reveals a wealth of critical cultivation instructions in an open, unguarded manner. These instructions were revealed in the context of the needs of the disciples Huang Yuanji was addressing when he taught, making them highly applicable in real situations.

_______ The Green Pine Temple here in Hong Kong belongs to the Complete Reality school of Daoism. The original spirit of this tradition was embodied by its founder, Wang Chongyang. Wang Chongyang taught that to cultivate the Dao is to seek “complete reality.” This work is not accomplished through any sort of external rituals, but through making jing, qi, and shen whole, which makes whole both one’s life as well as the brightness of one’s fundamental essence. Wang taught his students to transcend all external concerns such as success, fame, wealth, and rank, and instead to return to the home of the heart. In Daoism, this process is described by the term that serves as the title for this chapter: “Going back to the root, returning to the source.” To go back to the root and return to the source is to trace backwards to where our lives originally came from—the Dao—in order to obtain harmony and liberation therein. Once our later heaven lives take shape, the tendency of our jing, qi, and shen to dissipate outwards takes us further and further away from the source. Going back to it liberates us. There is a well-known phrase that expresses the underlying principles of internal alchemy: “Go with the current and remain mortal; counter the current and transcend.” This phrase alludes to the two directions that the universe’s evolution unfolds in, as well as the two directions in which the skill we develop in cultivation can take us. Daoist cultivation’s worldview, life outlook, and basic theory of how to practice are all included in this phrase’s two main ideas, going with the current, and going against the current. It is important to be aware that the notion of going with and against the current apply to specific contexts. If one is not clear about what these contexts are, there is a risk of developing a warped understanding of the teachings. For instance, Laozi, one of Daoism’s ancestral teachers, stated “the Dao follows its intrinsic nature.” Given that the Dao was originally said to “follow its intrinsic nature,” some scholars hold that internal alchemy amounts to a revolution in Daoist thought, in which the old teaching of following intrinsic nature was replaced with one of “going against the current.” However, scholars who think this way are operating on the basis of a major misunderstanding, which stems from the fact that they are unclear as to the frames of reference in which following the current and going against the current apply. There is, in fact, no contradiction between ideas such as “go backwards against the current to become an immortal” and “the Dao follows its intrinsic nature.” Quite the opposite, the two teachings share the exact same essential meaning. The concept of “intrinsic nature” has two layers of meaning. One of these layers points to the realm of intrinsic nature realized by sages. This is the realm of wuwei, where one’s essential nature is integrated with that of the Dao itself. But there is another context in which the term “intrinsic nature” is used, in this case to describe ordinary people doing whatever comes naturally to them. When used in this way, “intrinsic nature” refers to people’s habituated characters; in this sense, “to follow nature” means to float along with the force of karma. If I was prone to getting drunk or taking drugs, I could very well ask, “aren’t I just following my nature? Aren’t I just going with the flow?” While that may be the case from a certain standpoint, this is not the type of “following intrinsic nature” that pertains to Daoist cultivation. Just memorizing the lexicon of Daoist practice is not enough—one needs to directly experience its real meaning. Some people latch onto superficial meanings, thinking until the end of their days that “the Dao follows its own nature” means having carte blanche to live a life of debauchery, because that’s “just being natural.” The truth is that one must have reached a very high stage in cultivation to be able to follow intrinsic nature. At this stage, all the pretense, scheming, and divisiveness of the later heaven mind are gone. This is not a stage where one just goes along with spontaneously-arising human desires; rather, it is the stage of flowing with the self-arising suchness of the Dao. _________ The prior heaven realm must be awakened to; the qi of habit in the later heaven realm must be refined; these two tasks must be accomplished in an integrated manner. Gradual practice is a process of cleansing the heart, which is sometimes described in Daoist literature as “letting the human heart die so that the heart of Dao can come to life.” It was in reference to this process that Wang Chongyang called himself a “living dead man” and even named one of the places where he meditated “the Tomb of the Living Dead Man.” “Living” meant that he was, of course, still alive, but what had “died” was his “human heart.” This was another way of saying that he was no longer a captive of later heaven, self-centered thinking. In Daoist circles one sometimes hears the phrase, “If you don’t want to die, then you’ll have to perish.” This meaning of this phrase is, “So you want not to die? You want to become a Daoist immortal? Well fine, that’s simple—the only thing you have to do is get your later heaven human mind to die!” Once the so-called human mind is gone, prior heaven original nature comes to life; the “heart of Dao” is then active, and because it is eternal, one can be said not to die. This teaching is another place where the concepts of going with or against the current apply. To go with the current is to follow the “human heart,” which means having a mind that is prone to scattering itself outwards as it attempts to clutch onto this or that object or phenomenon. To go against the current requires dismissing the human heart, so that one can return to one’s prior heaven nature. However, it needs to be clearly stated that what “letting the human heart die so that the heart of Dao can come to life” really describes is a result of practice, but not a way to practice. In terms of actual practice, the “human heart” and the “heart of Dao” are not two separate things that can be set against each other. One should not actually try to reject one’s human mind while chasing after the “Dao mind.” What these Daoist teachings describe is the awakening of wisdom, not an internal war waged against the ego. One has to realize what the human mind is at its base, not stubbornly struggle against it. The only correct way to “let the human mind perish” is to recognize that it is, by its very nature, empty. Suppressing, rejecting, or struggling with any aspect of one’s mind is mistaken practice.

One article about Shuigong: http://www.qigongchinesehealth.com/sleeping_qigong Sifu John Dolic is the best person to answer your questions about the Shuigong system: http://www.qigongchinesehealth.com/contact

It's silly. The kriya purifications can be found likewise silly if you mentioned them to the average uninitiated and spiritually disinterested Westerners that these were parts of spiritual practice, or do you disagree? Humor is often made from contrasts. Anyway, I don't want to argue, stir anyone's sensibilities any more on this, or continue with loose footing where I'm not granted any benefit of doubt. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, dwai. I appreciate them despite your distrust for me.

Look, it was a light hearted response. I could have brought up the Aghori and mention the left-hand path practices that are more wilder for sure, but I don't see why it's necessary to view the apparently puerile emphasis I presented as anything else than honest admiration. Seriously, I think it's really great that this type of protocols exist because they actually make sense unlike the the copper wire cultivation.

And I had thought that copper wire into the rectum or into the male member were the coolest methods ever. Support your local kriya yogis and yoginis!