wandelaar

The video doesn't play on my computer. Could you place it on YouTube?

Similarities: The fundamental acceptance of change as a property of physical reality, following a middle way in daily life, meditation to train the mind in seeing the world and our self as there are.

I also think that that is an essential aspect of wu wei, except that there is no divine grace involved. It is rather like dancing to the kind of music you like, you just have to give yourself over to the music and let your body move with it. I did that a lot when I was young.

Indeed! I'm not dogmatic about it, but in general I only give up trying after I have done my very best to rationally understand some thing and failed. At this point I consider it very likely that wu wei can be rationally understood, and as you can see in the above discussion we have already made some progress.

Very good question. The modern research on flow and attention will probably be relevant here. I have read some great articles about this, and I still have some books to read on the subject. Working on it!

Exactly! The thing that sets Chuang tzu's craftsmen apart from the ordinary craftsmen is their ability to accomplish their task without them seeing the task as directed by some (important) goal. They have to let go of all thoughts of success or failure that only hinder the free expression of their technical mastery. As soon as they frame the work as some kind of test, then egocentric concerns will begin to obstruct the work. It has to be done wu wei.

As I said before I think that the term "perfection" is misleading. Perfection is a form of extremism, and Lao tzu's Taoism is against all extremes. Lao tzu rather promotes knowing and being content with enough. A good modern book against perfectionism is this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0996435409/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i2

For my answer read the part of the quote that follows upon "I am sick and tired of". It's already there.

And happily so! Lao tzu had no problems with advising us to simplify our life, so I am in good company. I am sick and tired of this talk about enlightenment that may or may not happen and can even result in meditation sickness and/or spiritual arrogance. I don't need the first prize and would be quite happy with the second or third prize that are much easier to get.

Most posts in this topic are attempt to not consider the possibility of simplifying your life by slowing down and refusing some of the "blessings" of modern society. But whether anyone would want to simplify his/her life and to what extent, is anyone's own choice. It's a completely voluntary movement. People living in poverty because of external circumstances is a different subject. The term "perfection" in the title of this topic isn't quite happy, but the video is clear enough. Living such a life will not be to everyone's liking but such a life will definitely have an impact on one's psychological state of being. Removing much of the hustle of modern life will make (more) space in one's mind to notice and appreciate the small things (such as watching and listening to the birds, or taking time to taste one's meal or cup of tea) that actually make life worth living. One doesn't have to be as radical of the people in the video to experience the difference, even taking a daily walk in the evening without your mobile phone or walkman can make a big difference. Or throwing out your television. The essential news can also be viewed on the internet. I personally am living without a television for many years now, and I never for a moment regretted this decision. On the contrary: when I accidentally happen to see some television program because of visiting somebody else's home I can hardly believe that this junk is watched by millions of people. But as I already said: let each choose his own way of life. It's enough when the option of simple (or simpler) living is widely known.

Until they start to wonder what it's all about...

Wikipedia is generally a good place to start, and one can find more scholarly information by following the notes and references.

It is always wise to study a thing before forming an opinion about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation The scientific study of meditation is nothing new. But only lately has it become possible to get a clearer picture of what is happening in the human brain when one meditates. There is no rational reason to depreciate scientific research on meditation.

Living a simple life definitely doesn't mean meditating all day but getting nothing done, one will still have a lot of daily work to do in and around the house, and maybe have a part-time job besides. It's not the rich man's paradise.

http://www.wussu.com/laotzu/laotzu12.html http://www.wussu.com/laotzu/laotzu20.html Lao tzu appreciated a simple life far away from the madding crowd, and he took his resulting social awkwardness for granted.

I think that the enlightenment experience can be psychologically explained, and that the basic insight of the experience can also be reached by rational thinking. In my opinion evolution has equipped us with the basic perspective that our own survival (or that of our "clan") is all important. The contrary perspective that our own survival (or that of our "clan") is no more important than that of anybody else's, may be objectively more correct but that didn't have enough value for survival to become a mainstream thing. So our natural perspective on the relation of ourselves to the rest of the world has become heavily biased (in an egocentric way) because of our evolution. Now there are several means (such as drugs, sensory deprivation, etc.) to derange our sense of self to such an extend that our natural perspective of our own importance in opposition to the rest of the world (temporarily) looses its grip. This shift then leads to a truer (in the sense of more objective) perception of our place in the world (as just being part of the world and not really separate from the rest). How this unity-experience is interpreted afterwards and whether the experience leads to joy or fear depends on the person having the experiencing. Just my two cents.

That is a nice and funny interpretation, but what I meant was that the refrigerator doesn't consciously try to do anything, it's just a mechanism without the build in ability to reflect on what it is doing. Lots of things in our daily life are done in the same unthinking manner.

Changing the world can exist without (consciously) trying to change the world. Technical control systems like a refrigerator don't try to change the world, but they do so nevertheless. And in the state of flow or wu wei the scheming mind takes a step back, so in a sense acts that are accomplished in such a condition are not (consciously) directed to changing the world. So I think that it is rather a matter of degree how much (conscious) trying is involved in particular acts.

Perhaps - but I am getting tired of the subject of enlightenment and the supposed superior knowledge and power that is associated with it. For a few Bums enlightenment experiences appear to have worked out fine. But for others their enlightenment experiences appear to have led to inordinate bragging and dogmatic preaching (spiritual arrogance) and/or serious psychological troubles (meditation sickness). So I prefer more down to earth methods now, with some simple and moderate forms of meditation added.

If that is enlightenment, than please let me stay a mere mortal.

Everyone will grow old and die anyhow. But sages would be quite happy with living out their natural span of life (= to grow old) and die, without wishing and/or looking for some supernatural escape from the natural course of things.

It is! I never said that simple life on the inside is unimportant. But the posted video promotes simple living on the outside as a way to make simple life on the inside somewhat easier. And this is in line with Lao tzu's chapter 80, whatever his later followers may say.

Do you know of a translation of chapter 80 that doesn't promote the simple life?

It's not all or nothing...

Yes - ultimately it's all a matter of taste.