wandelaar

https://www.google.nl/books/edition/Zhuangzi/sotIEAAAQBAJ?hl=nl&gbpv=1&dq=Zhuangzi++++A+New+Translation+of+the+Sayings+of+Master+Zhuang+as+Interpreted+by+Guo+Xiang&printsec=frontcover

Results: Only the article Acute Physiological and Psychological Effects of Qigong Exercise in Older Practitioners is relevant to the subject of internal electrical chi. However as noted in the article itself: The conclusion of the article is: So what do we learn about the possibility or impossibility of externalized chi phenomena? Nothing. I tend to agree with the idea that internal chi is just another way of describing phenomena that are known under other names in western medicine. That is as long as no extraordinary phenomena of externalized chi are shown to exist that defy explanation in terms of western science. The links to quantum mechanical findings in experiments with photons and electrons show how weird things become when you operate with very small particles of matter and light. Quantum entanglements and the like. So indeed one should be careful with definitely ruling things out as impossible. But do they supply a way to understand electric chi phenomena? Maybe or maybe not. A lot of dots need to be filled in to connect the quantum world to chi. And filling in those dots is exactly what solid scientific theory construction is all about. Asking your readers to fill in the dots for themselves won't do it. The article Breath-Hold Diving – The Physiology of Diving Deep and Returning proves that training will help one achieve things that are impossible for untrained persons. But this is no surprise. The crucial thing here is how far one can go in this way. And again nothing about electrical chi.

Will take some time for me to read all the links...

That's what western medicine will have to consider once electrical chi phenomena are shown to exist, and in case the physical condition of the body (as known to western medicine) alone doesn't explain what's happening. Which could be a very interesting development. Is this variability enough to explain the generation of sparks emitted from the body? OK.

Being able to store up energy isn't controversial. Also the human body is capable of generating electricity. And some animals can generate huge voltages. So the latter isn't biologically impossible. I'm not sure that the typical electrical chi phenomena should be called paranormal. Perhaps people can train themselves to use certain parts of their body to generate high voltages. You should ask a medical specialist about that. It would certainly be very interesting to measure from which parts of the body the voltages are coming from. And perhaps those parts of the body can then be shown to have developed an altered function as voltage generators. This would be revolutionary from a western medical perspective but not necessarily involve a need to change the currently known laws of physics. Quite another thing would be if you could emit energy to some far away place to achieve a physically measurable effect there (telekinesis). Maybe it would not so much constitute breaking a known law of physics as proving the need of adding some extra (not yet scientifically recognized) form of interaction or force. I should remark beforehand that nothing is ever accepted in science as the result one isolated experiment, but if the experiment is well thought out and the invited skeptic is unable to detect any fraud then it will likely generate interest in the parapsychology community and among the more adventurist skeptics.

Very good! Will it be something paranormal, that is something that according to the currently known laws of physics should be impossible? Telekinesis perhaps? Or rather some electrical chi phenomenon?

If you don't add a critical stage magician to the team you will get a demonstration that will prove nothing at all. The internet abounds of that kind of stuff. No need to add more. The old guy with the beard is dead, so don't worry. But whatever stage magician you will choose, as soon as he starts detecting fraud he will make enemies among the true believers including the supposed "master" himself. People seldom like to see their idol dethroned.

That's why I always point at the necessity of having a capable stage magician present. I fear the lesson will never be learned...

@Neirong Thank you! In case some readers might be wondering what I meant in a former post of mine by the logical fallacies and debating tricks occurring in this topic, your post above is a perfect example. The logical fallacies and debating tricks were notable on both sides.

Yes - most arguments about this subject from either side are well known. Asking people to invest many years of training to see for themselves is not going to help much as understandably only few will be prepared to do so. And again understandably not many people claiming special powers are prepared to demonstrate those powers under controlled conditions. So it looks like there is no way out of the quandary. But I haven't given up hope completely. What could change everything is when a way were found to objectively demonstrate paranormal chi phenomena in a simple foolproof way that anybody willing to do so could replicate with the appropriate equipment. It's scientifically possible to measure extremely small effect. So in the right experimental set up even a minute paranormal chi phenomenon should be objectively measurable. That's why I suggested moving the ball on top of Norton's dome as an example. In case such an apparatus were invented with which all or most people could see for themselves that paranormal chi phenomena are real than I have no doubt that over time the existence of chi (or something like it) would become common knowledge. But of course it could be that chi is somehow "unwilling" to be demonstrated in such a way, and than I see no other "solution" than to stay undecided or the agree to disagree.

Yes - there are those who will never believe, no matter what happens or what arguments are brought forward. Furthermore there are also those who will continue to believe, no matter what happens or what arguments are brought forward. I've seen examples of both in this topic. Logical fallacies and debating tricks abound. One could easily forget that there are also those (few and far between) who are still undecided because they permit themselves to see the value and weaknesses of both extreme positions...

OK - I made my point. Enough for now.

So I asked: And your answer was: no. So you are in no position to claim what you are trying to assure us of. But perhaps you made a study of hypnosis without undergoing it yourself, but than you would have known that involuntarily contraction of one’s relaxed limbs is perfectly possible as a result of hypnosis. Furthermore there are also lots of claims of positive medical results of hypnotic treatment. But instead of reevaluating your claim in light of this new information you simply ignore it, and change the subject.

What do you mean by "mere suggestion"? Did you try hypnosis before so as to be able to compare the effects of the two procedures?

Most important here is civilized interaction. If you stick with that much is possible. I'm interested to hear what you have to say about the integration of spiritual and scientific perspectives.

"There are less things in Heaven and Earth, Eduardo, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy" Wandelaar (Sorry couldn't resist the temptation... )

@Pak_Satrio Another over the top reaction. One would think that after the ban for Partez the civility in discussion would quickly return, but not so. Those remaining in the race are now celebrating their victory by painting the non-believers as lazy, stupid, dogmatic, racist, etc. It's only slightly less pathetic than what Partez did. Yes the guy in the video talked about two groups of rats. But how many rats were there? That's why I asked. Showing just two rats doesn't prove anything. After that I visited this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_air_ionization_therapy So my current opinion is that it might work or it might not work, and that it's not clear yet. Besides large concentrations of ozone are considered unhealthy. After that I found this on YouTube. Not about the sort of thing the professor talked about, but also about negative ions so I might as well post it here as a warning for those who want to go a step further: That's why I personally prefer simple well known "practices" like taking a walk, healthy food, etc. But I'm leaving the party. Please have ball!

Yes - that looks spectacular. But how many rats were tested that way? If it were only two rats than nothing substantial has been proven. And that's the problem with many topics here. There are lots of non-controversial ways to improve your health and well-being. Regularly taking a walk, a good nights rest, healthy food, etc. Why focus on the seemingly miraculous? Even if the world was completely devoid of miracles, than it would still be a fascinatingly spectacular place. But in the daily hassle we tend to lose sight of it.

@Trunk For how long has he been banned?

Apparently it depends on the country if a lie detector may be used as part of court proceedings. But it's not a trustworthy method and there are ways to lie without the lie detector registering anything special. See Wikipedia.

@Pak_Satrio Nobody won this discussion. It was the usual back and forth you always see regarding this topic. But at least it was a civil back and forth until civility was thrown overboard and it quickly turned into a battle of egos. That's the stage we are in now. And that's what I was referring to when I wrote that I was sad to see this happening.

Sad to see this happening.

I have the book, but haven't read it yet. Too busy with other things...

There's no need to make a show of faqi. To me ostensible cases of faqi are simply interesting phenomena deserving of investigation. As a young man I liked the idea of acquiring special powers, but in the end we're all fragile mortals however spiritually advanced we may be. The real challenge to me at least lies in the realization of our own relative insignificance. We're just straw dogs. Perhaps I should grow a long white beard...

This is what happens when civility in discussion is thrown to the winds...