wandelaar

Well - I don't promote my way of life as the best thing one could do, but it's the way that best fits my character.

@ Marblehead I just don't like jumping into the unknown. But I do like to understand how things work. So my preferred way is to first theoretically investigate things and depending on the results move on to getting involved or not.

Sometimes it's fun, and sometimes it isn't.

Depends on the person. I am the sort of guy that wants to know what he is getting into before he takes the next step.

No - we will not! Wu wei is a human phenomenon, and no ethnic, religious or esoteric group has the right to monopolise its study, investigation and cultivation. Besides, Taoism itself contains widely divergent practices, and wu wei isn't even an exclusively Taoist concept and phenomenon. So your suggestion is widely off the mark. Sectarian claims on offering a superior foolproof method to achieve wu wei don't prove anything.

In that case I know enough. You are not here to learn something, or to explore who did what, or even to explain to us what you think to be the case. It's no use continuing. Goodbye!

@ moment You systematically refuse to answer our criticism, but nevertheless you write: If you really liked to explore you would look up what exactly Bhaskarachārya had to say about the force of gravity and how that compares to Newton's laws. I looked at Wikipedia but didn't find anything that would place Bhaskarachārya on the same level as Newton as far as gravity is concerned. But you may have other sources that prove your case, and I like to know what they are.

I am very interested in books and articles comparing ancient Chinese and classical Greek/Roman philosophy. If you could post some book- and/or article-titles on wu wei that would be great.

One thing I can already say: according to Slingerland there is no superior foolproof method to achieve wu wei. It depends on personality, age, activity, etc. So he advices a sort of mixed art. But even then there remains something irreducibly paradoxical about trying not to try.

Yes - allowing people to be themselves makes it easier to deal with them.

Bought this many years ago: https://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Newtons-Alchemy-Cambridge-Paperback/dp/0521273811/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 As I now see the book's cover has curled along the edges and bookworms have started eating the front page. I am getting old...

@ OldDog In the second half of the book Slingerland gives us an evolutionary and social-psychological explanation of wu wei and te. It's a surprising vision and I have to let it sink in before further commenting on it.

Is this about a kind of tax collector?

The crucial question is: did Bhaskaracharya have something like Newton's law of universal gravitation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_law_of_universal_gravitation It's this formula plus Newton's second law of motion that really started things going.

If things deteriorate much further indeed eventually that is what will happen. Those who came here to learn about Taoism and spirituality will leave, and this place will be taken over by those who like to spent most of their time talking and debating politics. Or maybe the forum itself will be shut down, or some new forum will be set up for the more serious Bums who don't want to be involved in the upheaval around Trump? Can't predict the future. We will see what happens. But I have already said what I wanted to say in this topic, and there are much more interesting things to do on this Sunday (like reading a book on wu wei) than getting sucked into one more of those silly quibbles about politics. Goodbye!

Need not say more than thelerner and Taoist Texts did above.

Don't see why choosing not to participate in political debates and why expressing concern about the current big investments in politics should be tabooed or branded as not honest. Imagine you join a forum devoted to the study of birds and then the main focus of the forum drifts off in the direction of heated debates about the best type of airplanes that should be used in the US. It would be normal and understandable when some of the members of the forum would regret such a change of focus and would wish to express their feelings about it.

Maybe in the second half of the book, it looks like he is taking a more broad view from there on. I will keep you informed.

Did Bhaskaracharya think that the planets, constellations, moon, and sun are held in orbit due to the attraction of the earth?

I am now halfway reading the above book. It is very good, and discusses the ideas on wu wei of Confucius, Lao tzu, Mencius, and Chuang tzu and compares them to modern psychological findings and insights.

These questions cannot be answered without exact descriptions of what you consider to be "the theory of gravitational force", "the atomic theory", and a "truly comprehensive economist and political scientist".

@ liminal_luke I share your concerns, and I think you made an excellent argument. But I hate the idea of this forum banishing politics altogether. After all much of the Tao Te Ching is about politics. So it should have its place. But you are right that the political discussions as they are now had on this forum are not particularly informed by Taoist or spiritual understandings. I hope that with the measures taken The Dao Bums will not deteriorate much further.

Yes - but that only happens when people are talking with each other instead of against each other. I live in the Netherlands so I don't know all the ins and outs, but this seems to be a good start: https://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fnos.nl%2Fartikel%2F2257455-politieke-tegenstanders-leren-met-elkaar-praten-in-de-vs.html&edit-text=

Politics and religion are in the same boat as regards the (often extreme) emotions involved. So where some of the participants consider their particular spiritual path as the ultimate truth one can expect the same kind of trouble in Buddhist and Taoist discussions as in the political threads. I didn't like the endlessly repeating MoPai threads either but considered it the responsibility of the moderators to handle it, and eventually a decision was taken that stopped them. I don't remember other Buddhist or Taoist threads that turned nasty, but maybe that was before I became a member. Doubtlessly there have been such threads. As regards the political discussions I am happy with the solutions that have now been implemented. Political discussions are still possible - as they should - but they have become less prominent in the presentation of the forum.

I'm laughing because of the irony that the choice of the section this topic is placed in aggravates the problem that the topic itself notices. You are right in that. So you scored a point. On the other hand placing this topic in a section that is ignored by those who don't want to talk politics would also be senseless. And so this little discussion itself becomes an example of the silly disputes that abound in political discussions where scoring points and winning debates are considered most important and serious argumentation is hardly found at all. So there really is a lot to laugh about this on multiple levels, when you view this little quibble from a distance.