wandelaar

Not much text, but no text at all?

Is there a purely linguistic way to recognize those parts of the Chuang tzu that are not meant to be taken literally? This is relevant because the danger of considering anything as a flight of fantasy that doesn't immediately make sense, is that one misses part of the lessons contained in the Chuang tzu.

See pages 1 & 2 of this book: https://books.google.nl/books?id=cJfm_FO_TEAC

Thank you - I guess I have to study the Kabbala to fully understand those concepts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Déjà_vu

Yes - the ambiguity could be deliberate. I keep forgetting that precise formulations aren't universally appreciated.

Interesting free articles on the Chuang tzu can be found here: http://cjfraser.net/publications/#articles

@ zerostao You have a right to live in your own fantasy world were facts don't matter, and factual criticism is best ignored. Happily we have an ignore button for those cases. Goodbye.

I don't put science on a pedestal; I don't put the old masters on a pedestal; and I don't put myself on a pedestal. But freeform puts the old masters on a pedestal, that's where we disagree.

Yes - I just now found them. Just started reading myself.

Strangely the posts that disputed the possibility that enlightened people could abuse their disciples have now disappeared, so now my reactions appear to be unrelated to anything else.

That would only make matters worse. Many particularly young people have become the play things of their own digital devices.

A huge simplification and simply not true! Socrates, Plato and Aristotle had their own perspectives to add. And for instance Archimedes lived well after Aristotle. And further Hellenistic philosophers had some interesting and relatively novel things (nothing is absolutely novel) to say about the art of living well.

What in view of the Kabbala is the difference between knowledge and understanding?

I think retiring to the mountains may be a good thing for some people, but not for most. Humans are social animals whether they like it or not. The prize of retiring to the mountains in terms of extreme loneliness would be to high. A middle road is probably the best for most of us.

I don't share your postmodern depreciation of western science and philosophy. There is no pure, original and uncontaminated doctrine anywhere on earth. It is all the product of fallible mortals wrestling with with their understanding of human existence. So I learn from whatever source that helps my understanding. The great thing about science is that it learns from its mistakes. What do you know about the depth of Slingerland's understanding? See: https://www.edx.org/bio/edward-slingerland

Playing the devil's advocate: Who wants to walk on water, and make a show of it besides. Isn't that just another way to get sidetracked?

The prize seems too high. One can indeed ward off calamity by no longer desiring to be without calamity (because then a calamity will no longer be seen as a calamity) and by avoiding contact with all other creatures, but isn't that saying goodby to ones humanity also? Maybe the point of all this is to prove that in actual practice calamity cannot be avoided.

To remove the illusion that nowadays we are (much) smarter than the people of long ago just study the philosophy, science and technology of old civilizations such as Greece, India and China. You will see that they were very smart people indeed. The only difference is that in terms of technology and science we today are more advanced. But that isn't because we are any smarter than them, but only because we have access to the accumulative experience, research and knowledge of the smart people of the past.

Same problem with me. I can appreciate a viewpoint that transcends ones limited individual perspective (such as in mystical experiences), but I fail to see how one could act from such a viewpoint. There is no objective reason why one should care more about ones own well being than about the well being of anybody else, or why one should care more about the situation today than about the situation tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, or whether you live or die. Or whatever. As you say, it could easily lead to fatalism, nihilism, and the like. One somehow has to return to normal day to day living while at the same time keeping to the experience of unity with the Tao. Looks like a delicate psychological feat to accomplish.

Thank you! I have looked at the previews on Amazon and Google, but I read nothing surprising. I don't know what to think about it. I have to be very selective on buying new books as I am running out of space in my apartment as well as in my own head. So I have to think about whether I will buy it...

How about Trump? But no - we are not going into that here. There is already a topic about that.

I hope you are right.

Those are nice pictures. Looks like creating "sound art" is your thing.

That's the place alright. But as to the time, that's a more complicated issue. It has been mentioned before that the time and energy that is here invested in political discussions can no longer be invested in spiritual topics. And that's why The Dao Bums is in danger of loosing its main Taoist or spiritual focus.