Zork

Many theologies utilize conscious breathing for instructive purposes, as for example the hatha yoga system, without knowing the right process. Several people have suffered severe damage to their health, a fact only to blame in the extreme breathing exercises asked for by this system, especially when such practices have been realized without the guidance of an experienced leader (guru). In most cases, the inexperienced reader has been persuaded to do these exercises because they were promised a quick acquisition of occult powers. The above text is copied verbatim from a 70 year old text. Caveat emptor!

I apologize for triggering this sh**storm. Had I known better I wouldn't have asked publicly. I thank everyone for the answers but please leave me out of it. There are things in the book that I remember and that I can use to support my opinion but I do not want to make it public. There is no point arguing on the Internet.

Excuse me for interfering but why the disdain for Mo pai? Honest question. I have read the Magus of Java years ago and from what i remember it is obvious that there are exaggerations in the text.

Well in that case it's the secular one! Human lives at least on a local level are interconnected in strange ways. Let's see what happens: So he is engaging in a smear campaign=> one of his competitors has access to terrific lawyers and turns the campaign around suing for massive sums so the initiator of the campaign ends up bankrupt. He is engaging is unethical practices=> he is snitched by a disgruntled employee who knows a lot and is paid little. He ends up in jail or fined to oblivion. He ends up closing businesses so many people lose their jobs=> suddenly he is one of the few rich in a poor environment. He becomes a target for robberies and kidnappings. Also his children face danger from increased presence of drugs in school. He has avoided all the above and lives in luxury=> he is bored. Drugs are used for recreation purposes but quickly turn to addiction. His marriage is falling apart because he spends so much time with hookers that his wife feels neglected. He has a lot of money but it isn't enough, so he must try to expand. He has his firm hostile takeovered and he ends up unemployed with a good check. He spends his money carelessly and half of it is his divorce settlement. Do you envy this guy? I don't. The more evil you do the more you increase the chances of some of the above happening. There is nothing metaphysical about that, just simple logic. What wandelaar mentions is what many biologists repeatedly see nowadays: organisms that cooperate (like symbionts) have increased their chances of survival. Fierce competition ensures the fittest genes pass on but it doesn't guarantee survival.

Hello. Non english native speaker reaching his forties here. Used to train in martial arts a long time ago. I have a taken an interest in Hermetics and the works of Franz Bardon and in recent years Buddhism. I don't believe i can contribute somehow in your conversations but i am curious about the similarities between hermeticism and the eastern internal/energy arts.

Not only ethics is a human trait, it is diverse between human society as well. In Aztec society human sacrifice was a moral and acceptable standard way of appeasing the gods. In pre medieval turkish tribes a woman who was offered sex by anyone should accept or she was considered immoral. What you are confusing is morality with goodness. In the first case rape is considered evil by human society but it may benefit an animal society by passing genes. In the second case an interspecies war and enslavement of the losers (it happens like that in bees) is evil by human standards and also temporarily benefits the victor but in the long run is to the detriment of both. This answers the following "Evil generally refers to the actions of those animals (including humans) that completely (or almost completely) ignore the interests of the society they are part of. There is nothing exclusively human about that. ". In both these examples there is psychological and physical damage to the animals that ignores the interests of their society but none of it can be defined as evil. Sorry no. We agree that evil is a vague concept but evil is not seen in social animals. Animals can't understand the evil/good division. They only understand what satisfies their instincts and act accordingly. Furthermore animals don't have the feeling of hate and don't exhibit sadism. Edit Let's agree to disagree on the last one. I don't see me changing my mind on that one nor should you. Also it is beside the point. Humans aren't animals entirely so what stands for animals isn't the same for humans.

Unfortunately you are wrong. Sexual abuse/rape of minors/adults is a fact in hominids and dolphins. Mostly done to pass the genes when conventional means to mate have failed. What makes it evil in this context? Seen in a vacuum that's good because it ensures genetic diversity and promotes the survival of the species as a whole. Disclaimer I am not claiming that rape and abuse are natural and acceptable processes, i am just pointing out the flaws behind the reasoning. And if you are talking about superorganisms in general, the clash between two hives of bees of the same species is detrimental to the survival of the species but is commonplace. What makes this evil?

Just pointing out some facts. the first has been mentioned before in the thread. Good/Evil are human-centric terms. They have no context outside human societies. There is no way to define them besides human beings without referring to an outside source/law/superior entity or whatever anyone believes. IMHO you must mention whether you are talking about evil in a secular frame or evil in theological frame. The answer is different in each case. Evil as we commonly define it in the western world can arise from ignorance besides intention. For example if a drunk driver hits a pedestrian and kills him/her, he has just committed an evil act though he had no intention to do so.

Thank you. I do have questions. The timing isn't right yet. I have only played the first one. I like the sound of it. Makes no sense, i know.

thank you for the warm welcome. The reasoning behind "I don't believe i can contribute somehow in your conversations" is that i am a novice and there is no point in me debating with more advanced practitioners. Unfortunately i have no teacher due to location (the nearest one should be around 3000 miles away) and family (wife+2 kids) so i have to make compromises. I use the works of Franz Bardon as a way of learning due to the fact that he wrote the books for people like me that cannot have teachers due to physical limitations. The reason i stuck with these works is that i found out in the description of the magnetic and electric fluids the elements are reversed in left handed people. My former martial arts teacher told me that years ago so i knew that i found something. There are too many scammers around so it's better to be wary.