Piyadasi

I don't think you are correct dwai, but I don't know the truth Hopefully we will both see it eventually!

I agree with all of your points, which is why it's absurd/goofy to me to say you're enlightened of course, expect wait you're not, but we're not going to say you're not, we are going to use other words... how does that make any sense? - Sorry dwai to me it's just not the right way of thinking/speaking of things The Pali Canon is stark in it's differentiation between enlightened and not. Normal people are 'puthujjana' - translated along the lines of 'run-off-the-mill worldling' while awakened ones and up are 'Ariya' Noble Ones. Pretty stark contrast imo. In fact the contrast is so stark that every living entity is referred to as 'beings' - from humans, to animals, spirit, demons, literal gods - but the Ariya are not considered as 'beings'. The Buddha denies being either a human or a deity... Just an example I was familiar with. To get a sense of what they mean by these words the Dhammacakkapavattana Sutta goes about 'sensuality' (ie. your average householder's life) as: "Yo cāyaṁ kāmesu kāma-sukhallikānuyogo, Hīno gammo pothujjaniko anariyo anattha-sañhito..." = "That which is devoted to sensual pleasure in sensuality: base, vulgar, common, ignoble, unprofitable; " I'm sure nobody cares about the continuation of the Sutta at this point, but just to drive this point home it ends with literally all the heavenly realms and beings "crying out" and more as the first disciple of the Buddha gains awakening: "Ayañ-ca dasa-sahassī loka-dhātu, Saṅkampi sampakampi sampavedhi, And this ten-thousandfold cosmos shivered & quivered & quaked, Appamāṇo ca oḷāro obhāso loke pāturahosi, Atikkammeva devānaṁ devānubhāvaṁ. while a great, measureless radiance appeared in the cosmos, surpassing the effulgence of the devas." Listening to the ending was so cathartic to me once or twice in the past that I had a little Zifagong happen But that's probably just me.. Just to drive home that I think they thought about enlightenment along different lines in the past... - I think this misunderstanding(or it's popularization) certainly has it's roots in the first Western encounters with Buddhism and probably Hinduism. In Buddhism I'd guess it's a misunderstanding of the Mahayana idea of Tatagathagarbha or Buddha-nature... Theravadins might cynically say that that idea is a misunderstanding already The early Canon never talks about true nature in any great detail, possibly because of it being prone to misunderstanding. I don't know much more about it though... Probably has it's roots in Western Romanticism too. Actually it's such a big sore thumb for one Western Thai Forest teacher I know, that he wrote a whole book solely dedicated to tearing down the blend of Western Romanticism and Buddhism

I'm sorry but this is so goofy to me "Everyone is already fully enlightened, only we are not enlightened yet."

Mantak Chia Possibly the biggest fraud in the Daoist scene. I hope people here with more knowledge and eloquence can convince you to immediately stop all 'practices' coming from him... Before you seriously harm yourself. What you're experiencing currently is just the normal result of following his fraudulent, modernized, 'sex-sells' bullshit. People come to this forum and to genuine teachers all the time for help, because of how harmful his garbage is. Best of luck in regaining your health and well-being! Edit: PS: I was bamboozled just like you in the beginning btw., no real shame in it I'd say. Discernment is at the same time one of the most important and most difficult qualities to develop and you need it right off the bat already, when choosing what tradition to practice in.

lngbookings as in Lotus Nei Gong

Did not read the whole thread, don't care to. All I can add is that some people who I think know what they are talking about quite a bit would recommend Henry Lu's Chinese System of Natural Cures instead, as a better, still accessible book on Chinese Medicine. Everyone can take that as they wish of course.

Cold is to Heat like, -1 is to 1, if that makes any sense... You can also explain it like this: digestion needs warmth, happens in warmth, if you eat cold food, it's inevitable that it has to be warmed up by the body and that warmth is sucked from the body into the food, now you need more fuel to produce that warmth back up again. What if instead you eat warm food full of Qi (food gets more Qi from the cooking process, if I recall correctly too)? You get added warmth and added Qi, you don't have to produce that yourself just to be able to digest that food. Arguably cooking is also something like a semi-digestion, so less effort needed again, the whole process is more efficient. Being warm is 'life' being cold is 'death' - sort of... Think also of cold blooded animals, how much activity and 'life' they are able to produce as opposed to warm blooded animals. Might not be putting it perfectly, just my 2 cents. I agree.

I can feel the negative effects way before it hits the intestines. Basically an unpleasant contraction and a sting of cold in the stomach. You don't really want that obviously. Cold is contractile in quality and yes it sort of slows Qi movement/healthy functioning etc., as far as I understand, but someone with more knowledge could give you more details. Basically, why would you want food that almost just gives you negative amounts of energy(in the case of extremely cold, like ice cream)? This actually becomes less important later on I think, but in the early stages especially the LDT area is fragile and you want to support it with every little gimmick possible. Drink warm water if possible after practice, that will promote circulation and relaxation in areas that might have been a bit roughed up by the work you did. I would imagine frozen food, even if warming in quality before, gets a bit 'coldified' - if you reheat it, maybe almost re-cook it? I wouldn't worry about it too much, you want to eat fresh if possible, otherwise just heat the life out of it.

Cold water && Ice cream? = yes; Effect = bad; How much = quite a bit; Ignore = unwise; popsicle -> warm? = no; In human speech: don't ignore it if you want to get anywhere, it's just general health advice too, if you get sensitive enough, it's perfectly obvious why.

The Academy is rather incredible. As far as I know, there is nothing quite like it in the Daoist world... Constantly getting updated as well. 140ish hours of footage, on a wide variety of topics. Plus a structured training for Neigong and Taiji, +Bagua upcoming.

Cool, thanks, makes things a little clearer. Based on my reading of the conversation, it seemed to me that no-one was saying "Indian Gurus are bad" - more like "Unfortunately quite a few Indian (and otherwise) Gurus are bad (more than is comfortable to believe)". How does that sound to both parties?

To be honest, I haven't followed this conversation too closely. For my sake would you mind telling us what point are you even defending? I feel like you guys might not even be disagreeing, could be good to re-iterate what one is on about exactly this deep into the conversation. Just that you need a teacher to progress? Or what? Guru = good? If yes, do you honestly think all guru also = good?

I'm reminded of the prototypical Asuras of Buddhist cosmology, and how they often 'do good' or were reborn 'there' as a result of 'doing good' (ie. merit) but they do it with the wrong motivation, for example giving large donations to gain wealth from it or power in the future or supporting spiritual practitioners in the hope of gaining their supra-normal power for protection or to help impose their wills; or just simply mixing a lot of bad with whatever good they do... They could be associated with what we'd consider 'demonic' quality. It also seems that this 'demonic' quality (or similar terminology) is often associated with all sorts of errors in spiritual practice as described in Daoism (other Indian traditions?) as well. It's also worth noting that even though they have greater power and majesty than humans, they are often ranked below the 'human quality' / realm, because of this tainting/mixing, they are thought, overall, to be in a more miserable state. These 'Asuras in the flesh' would then have little trouble with dazzling others, be it with their power or some genuine goodness they might have, but looking at the larger picture, they might be headed in a worse direction than even the basic human state (although what the ancient texts mean by the human state doesn't exactly match how 99% of humanity is nowadays)...

It is genuinely unfathomable to me why people have any respect for him or pay him any attention (other than to see the dangers and what not to do). I imagine it's people who scoff at virtue themselves and are looking forward to experiencing the very same pitfalls as well...

Check out Damo Mitchell and Lotus Nei Gong. Lots of senior instructors and branches all over the place, might be a good fit for you (or might not!). A Comprehensive Guide to Daoist Nei Gong might be an interesting read for you too.

I wonder.. do I count as a Rat just because my Year sign is a Rat? Is 'befriending the Ox' actually just wearing an ox pendant and that's it? Are there any more specifics around the pendant? Where can one get appropriate pendants or is there nothing specific one has to look for beyond 'it should be an ox'? I'm interested in Chinese Astrology somewhat, but so far I haven't really found a book that had a decent amount of *practical* advice for someone who doesn't want to dive into it too deeply. Could you perhaps direct me to one or some other alternative? Or maybe I'm being too picky and I'll have to dive in if I want something I can apply in life. Thank you.

Why don't you enlighten us a bit more? Or point us in the right direction for further information? So far you've only said how unbelievably wrong and misinformed freeform is, but not the why or the how or what the alternative perspective is. What is "Spiritual Qi Kung"?

How about Baguazhang? I've heard it's supposed to be 'even more spiritual' than Taiji. I've heard the opposite about Xin(g?) Yi. Is there any validity to that? Or are they just different?

Recently there was much discussion about Damo, his school and his teaching. I was wondering is anyone from here going to his new program? Is anyone here an actual member of his school?

Your analogy would be true if the body was an inert object. Except it's not and is held up in all sorts of ways by muscular or whatever tension. I can tell you for sure that it was a big discovery for me to find how I held my shoulders up, as in unconsciously all the time, not very natural or 'rigid body' -like at all. Because people tense themselves up and don't stand or walk from the kwa they have their center of gravity too high. That at least is my very basic, I'm-not-a-master-at-all understanding.

Amitabha (alternate name Amitayus, meaning infinite life) is a word to refer to a specific Buddha. Supposedly. Many believe this practice is not actually Buddhist in origin, that's true. Mindfulness of a/the Buddha is not sun worship though. Also the word ābhā(Sanskrit)/obhā(Pali) means radiance or splendor in general and is used to refer to the appearance and aura of any type of lesser or greater deva(deity/spirit), who does have that type of splendor, at least in the Pali Canon, multiple times, I assume the Sanskrit Agamas are the same way. Not just the appearance of the Sun deva. That said I'm not exactly a fan of Amitabha practice.

How about the Shang and Zhou dynasties? Or the Mongols, Khitans, Xiongnu? Or the Vikings/Norsemen? Or Japan (Shinto)? Or the Jurchen Jin (and Later Jin/Qing), where the word apparently originates from? I also recall the Turkic/Iranian/Other peoples coming into Europe in waves and waves being quite oppressive to the 'natives'. See: Bulgars, Magyars, Huns, Beceneks, Avars.. Or was that occultism? Where does occultism begin and shamanism end? Please share what you think is important to read! Interesting topic, I also have my suspicions..

To some extent it's 1. yes, I think, metaphors, images enrich understanding very much at times. To another extent it is 2., but not how you think, in fact it's the reverse. It's associated with these things that are powerful in people's minds (one's parents, kings, tigers, a whole kingdom), all especially alive in people's minds in ancient India (tigers were potentially an everyday encounter at some places) because you want these, maybe abstract sounding ideas, to have real meaning and weight since they are an even more powerful and fundamental aspect of your experience. So you take the outside world/experience you live in your everyday life and translate the structure of that to your inner world and fundamental activities. You use the outer as a reference guide to the inner, I suppose. Parents are also extremely important in Buddhism, for lay people (and even monastics), they are to be revered and respected, in fact respect towards one's parents and the desire to pay back the kindness they did to one is one of the fundamental basic recommended attitudes/outlooks. Killing of one's parents if like one of the worst acts with the most grievous outcomes. So I don't think it's manipulation. Also back in that day I feel like this sort of manipulation would have been much more ineffective, since people weren't as much 'in their brains' dancing around with concepts and abstract ideas as we are today so I feel like this would have hardly had that effect on them. Also for any sort of manipulation like this to have a noticeable effect on the community you'd have to have many more of these style of teachings, mainly in the Suttas and Commentaries, and while there may be other 'shock value' verses in the Dhammapada, I can't recall any other teaching of this sort that's not just a short verse. That's just my guess. Another factor is pure shock value. This shock would then be put to use when the meanings are explained in the context of a live tradition. That's just my take on it.

An explanation by an Ajahn (https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/Dhp/endnotes.html#dhp-note294): "294: This verse and the one following it use terms with ambiguous meanings to shock the listener. According to DhpA, mother = craving; father = conceit; two warrior kings = views of eternalism (that one has an identity remaining constant through all time) and of annihilationism (that one is totally annihilated at death); kingdom = the twelve sense spheres (the senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste, feeling, and ideation, together with their respective objects); dependency = passions for the sense spheres. 295: DhpA: two learned kings = views of eternalism and annihilationism; a tiger = the path where the tiger goes for food, i.e., the hindrance of uncertainty, or else all five hindrances (sensual desire, ill will, torpor & lethargy, restlessness & anxiety, and uncertainty). However, in Sanskrit literature, “tiger” is a term for a powerful and eminent man; if that is what is meant here, the term may stand for anger." Not quite literal

I myself fortunately was turned away from Chia quite early on, but I'm very interested, what would you recommend someone who has developed the connection and the exact problem you described?