Zen Pig

Hmmmmmm. sounds interesting, but if offered to me, I would say, "No Thanks". It's not that I don't find this sort of thing intriguing, But like the old saying goes, "Man's got to know his limitations" And I do not do well with to much power. Like life of just hiking in the hills and spending time with family.

The only kinds of "deeper meditation" I have seen, and played with just a bit was Tumo, simple Neigung, reverse breathing, what some call Buddha breathing, and breath of fire, and so on. I still do most of these kinds of meditation, but am not focused on any outcome, and always start with over an hour of simple sitting From my limited experience I have seen a couple of things. First of all, in most mystical/spiritual traditions, the very first lesson, even the very simple ones , hold all the "secrets" of the path. Second, and this relates to "dangerous" practices, that could harm people, this is mostly because we are seeking power or control rather than seeing our complete inseparable connection to everything. (or as the old saying goes, "be careful for what you pray for), from what I have seen this wanting power or control or the changing of our lives, comes from deep seated fear, which can lead to all kinds of shitty outcomes. And yes, a good teacher should be able to see someone's intent in getting into this kind of practice. Saw this all the time in martial arts and this is one of the reasons a good school will work with a new student for years in order to see the kind of person he/she is, and also see how there ability develops before they teach the real hard core stuff. Years ago, I made the mistake of telling a couple of young men that there was a spot that one can strike and make them piss and shit themselves at the same time. They bugged me for years to show them this spot, but I knew that they were way too young and immature to be given this technique. I even told them that this was a very dangerous technique because you are striking a chakra spot, and it could cause all kinds of damage. The same can be said about some of the meditation techniques.

yes, this is precisely why I try to shy away from words like "awakened or enlightened". In my limited experience, it so far seems that our journey is on going and infinite. without a destination or a final goal. I have also seen many folks who have had some kind of experience, or experiences, and once they claim, "I am there, I made it, I am done", there ego starts to re-emerge taking control of what might have been a deep experience, and they end up being douchebags. IMO Lastly, I personalty don't try to judge some else's idea of an "awaking experience" and I try not to comment on my personal experiences. this way leads to useless argument. Kind of like arguing on what chicken taste like. we all agree on the word "chicken" for the most part, but we all can never know exactly how someone else experiences the taste of chicken. that's probably why some folks like it and some don't.

The breaking up of short term meditation has been of interest to me. From my experience, for the first few years of sitting, it is difficult to really get into an open state in 20 minutes, and I had to start with around 40 or 45 min's if I remember correctly, and work to an hour, at first. this longer time helped me drop into what ever I needed to drop into. But maybe folks who do 20 min's do just fine. I suppose it is different for different folks, but if one is having trouble letting go, or getting into the so called zone, then I would suggest trying to connect the two 20 min sitting times into a 40 min to start. got to be able to play with it.

Well, maybe if we think that, then ok........ I do not define meditation. I just sit. I also walk the hills in our valley. hell, I sometimes get lost in looking at a puddle of rain water. (seen some freaky shit that way) I have seen so many people who rationalize why they "don't need to meditate" or why "meditation is not important", and that is fine. As the late great Shunryu Suzuki use to say, "Do or Do Not, there is no Try" (sorry to disappoint star wars fans, Yoda was not the one to coin this saying), So if one does not think meditation or sitting or this kind of path is important, then that is also fine. Hell, dance, play a sport, go for a long run. Have a good old fashion roll in the hay with the one you love. that is living in the moment! its all the same after a while. IMO.

yes, we have been hooking up Tibetan meditators to bio feed back machines since the 70's. I use to work in a biofeedback lab as a tech back in the day. interesting stuff. thanks. My old organic chemistry professor told his new students that if they gave Wikipedia as a reference in there papers, they would get an automatic F. same with YouTube. But thanks for your input.

I have heard of this technique before, but having done tai chi for over 10 years, (modified yang form, full yang form, chen form,) etc. it is about physical connection, of aligning and relaxing your body structure, dropping your center, and letting you body move as one unit, starting from the soles of the feet, up the legs to the lower spine, and transferred through the waist, into the shoulders, (the most difficult transition) and into the hands,/finger tips. it sounds simple, but we are conditioned to move like a robot, one segment at a time. so transferring energy is both very physical, and also comes from a kind of connecting our body in a mindful way through practice. Of course, there are more esoteric forms of energy transfer, but i would not worry about that, as just learning to connect the body, energy in a physical manner takes decades of daily work. My suggestion for anyone taking any kind of Martial art, is to not get in a hurry. the best , deepest lessons are in the basic forms. relax, take your time and focus, and above all Have Fun! . good luck.

If meditation works as a way to relax, then that is wonderful. If meditation becomes deeper for others, that is also wonderful. half an hour is also wonderful. hell, 5 min's a day is wonderful. From my experience, and I might be kind of dense, I had to start out with an hour a day, until I worked up to 3 hours a day, every day, but I get that this is not everyone's cup of tea. I always try to relate to what folks feel right doing in the moment. some people like to take a half hour walk several times a week , and they feel better, and have some good health experiences. Others like to hit the gym, run, walk lift weights, do MA for much more time. one is not better than the other. we must find our own balance. simple stuff. Our human tendency is to believe that if we do not have the same experiences as someone else, then by definition, they are delusional, and we are on the right track. We are just walking each other home. good luck

Having worked for several branches of government, including research, I don't think there is some kind of organised conspiratorial program going on, for the simple reason that most government agency's could not find there ass's with both hands. LOL. I do however see how firm our western rational mechanistic belief is. If the researchers did not use accepted verbiage, this study would not get published. But I do tend to agree with your comment that most spiritual things that come to the western world do get corrupted, turned into a profit scam, changed to agree with our preexisting belief system, and so on, until one could not recognize the original teachings, this has happened to Zen, Advaita, shamanism, and other ancient systems.

I was looking into esoteric literature on the web, and came across this study published in NIH / Frontiers of Psychology peer reviewed journal about experiences of seeing images in meditation. While they had to keep what little explanation for this phenomena in the realm of the western rational reductionist religious world view, I am amazed that the western world is actually taking meditation seriously to the point of studying it, validating it and publishing findings. Will wonders never cease. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3879457/

Having come from a zen background, I had to at some point drop all the technical descriptions of walking meditation. With that said, I walk in our mountains about 12 miles a week. I don't try to do anything, simply observe life as it unfolds as I travel. as far as foot placement, I enjoy walking on ice and snow in the winter, as I become completely aware of my feet, where and how they are placed. walking on ice will keep one in the moment or they will end up on there ass! As far as I have come to understand walking meditation, it is a transition off the cushion. one learns to carry the practice through out the day, which seems to be the goal of sitting or walking meditation. good luck

Indeed.

yes. I worked in health care and research for years. back in the day, I had to crawl up into the ceiling vents to bring out a necked young woman who crawled up into the interstitial space and talk to her/ help her out. she was covered with shit........... so yes, but then again who was really crazy? her or the guy crawling up to pull her out because I got money for it. after all, she was not hurting or harmed, she just wanted out, and covered herself with shit so we would stay away, I would have done the same thing on reflection.

Indeed, but working with "normal" people takes a surgeons hand.

wow. interesting. how do you know that she had delusional thoughts? walk me through this. I mean in a real scientific way. to make an analogy, if one ask me how a computer works, I can go from boolen logic, to hexadecimal to basic language, then to the hardware such as tethrahedalicly bound amophous semi conductors, to TLL (Transistor Transistor logic), or now days, PLC (Program logic control), to something folks jack off to on their display. so in that vein, walk me through how you map the brain, to determine that this woman is sick or crazy, or delusional. Or maybe this is something you learned in a book, and have never had direct experience with. have you ever seen something that most people would say, "It is an illusion" or not there"? have you ever heard voices that no one else ever heard? or is this just a belief that you learned? not saying this is good or bad. just rhetorical question for both you and me, to sit with. It is always good for me to challenge my beliefs.