Zen Pig

Having done MA for many years, (both Kenpo, muay thai in Thailand, Jujitsu, (not the MMA kind but traditional) , Pencak Silat, american boxing, Tai Chi, etc, I can tell you that every martial art, especially tai chi needs to be taught in person by someone who really knows the art. The problem with tai chi in the west, is that it is more of a meditative health focused art, and many fake teachers take it up in order to make money, because no one will ever ask them to meet them on the mat and show them what they got. so western tai chi is mostly crap. but i have met a few real tai chi teachers who could toss me around the room and into walls without me feeling there push, but just being accelerated when they touch. if you are trying to learn from books and videos, this is not good or bad, you might get something out of it, but the connection, body structure, movement, centering, grounding through earth paths, is not easily explained, and one needs a good teacher to correct your form. same thing for just about any other martial art, but tai chi is so subtle, and a lot of the movement is hidden. My best experience is with Chen tai chi, which I did after learning short yang form, and 108 movement long yang or traditional yang forms.

yes, I agree with this, did not know it came from any formal tradition. I had dumped traditional zen years ago, and just made up my mind to sit and see for myself without any preconditioned "teachings", (not trying to hammer zen, as i still believe that it has some great qualities and fits my personality) With that said, I have experienced the breath, energy moving up by itself from the lower hara/danden, naturally to the second danden, to heart, up through neck to top of head and back down. If I tried to make this happen it would stop. got to let go and just watch it happen naturally. and yes, it does seem that especially opening up the heart area is very helpful. This kind of thing makes me feel better about this path, as being a skeptic by nature, I tend to question if a process is natural or something I learned and am just imagining it due to being pre conditioned. but having felt it happen, (and this is both a physical and energetic experience), and then reading of others experience tells me that this is very profound. thanks for the comments.

This is a good point. don't know how well water fasting opens up chi channels because i have not looked into this, but I just got off a 3-1/2 day (84 hour)- water only fast, which I do about 5 to 6 times a year. and IMO the benefits for the body are amazing. Lots of research out there that shows that about three days is the best length to go without food, and get rid of all the toxins, including damaged cells that cause inflammation, damaged white blood cells and replace them with new ones, (In some research up to 30 percent of white blood cells replaced, improving immunity. and lastly the brain is detoxified from the same process called autophagy, which means "self eating" where the body eats the damaged cells and plaque that cause everything from cancer to Alzheimer's, and then the stem cells are turned on to make new cells in everything from the gut lining, to the myelin in the brains nerve cells which is great. highly recommend it, but as i have said in other post don't just look at youtube videos for information on this, as the great majority of these videos are shit, and make it way to complicated in order to either sell your something, join something, or just being crazy humans. go to the peer reviewed research papers.

well said

This is an issue i have with some schools of meditation who suggest 20 to 30 min's twice a day. Of course if that works, then fine, but just getting up early in the morning, and even sitting for an hour, instead of dividing it up seems deeper. good point

Yes, I think this is spot on as far as my experience goes. I have also had some Kundalini movement experiences, but never had a negative problem with them. Probably because at the time, I was doing zen, and had no clue about these Kundalini crea's . so by not trying to do anything from a "thinking/will" standpoint. much like having a spontaneous opening, (kensho in zen), happens when usually when just doing something else, not really thinking, but engaged in the world.

On the third day of my new years three day water only fast.Good to blow out the old pipes once in a while and reset the body.Second day is always the worst as the body is changing over from trying to burn glucose to burning fat. The third day one feels like they did a couple lines of coke. (not that I would have ever known what that feels like) Does wonders for the immunity system, brain, lungs, digestion, and all sorts of cool stuff. I highly recommend it, but beware of going to YouTube looking for info. YouTube has become a cesspool of shit information. better to download peer reviewed papers in medical journals and research from sites like nih or reliable sites on three day water fast. I found it good to do about 5-6 times a year. As far as meditation goes, It seems like fasting effects the subtle body connection, which is part of the energy flowing in the body, which kind of makes sense as the body, along with the brain is being kind of flushed out, and new connections established. From the research I have read about doing a fast, 3 days seems to be optimal as far as resetting the detoxifying the body without loosing muscle mass, or having issues with electrolytes. Interested to hear of anyone else's experiences in fasting. cheers

Have had this about three times in the over 10 years of long term daily sitting. Mostly , for me it feels like a kind of 'roid rage" where I am not angry but very anxious, areas on the body feeling like electric sparks are hitting it. disconnected. The last time this happened was doing to much neigung reverse breathing. It usually happens when I forget to just have fun in meditation. just sit to sit. while i still do some other forms of dantian/hara breathing , I just watch the breath, and don't try to get anything out of it. that seems to let the energy calm down. Also going out side sitting on the ground, touching trees, etc, helps a lot, have no idea why. don't know what works for others.

Well...... 1.2 Billion people on this earth have no access to electrical power at all.....the population of the U.S, France, and Brazil mentioned in previous comments is a little over 1/2 a Billion Total.. So a good part of humanity have no electricity, so no electrical power to pump water, phones, cell phones, computers, lights, only simple living off the land. Wonder what there concerns are? Additionally 2.8 Billion people live on less than 2 dollars a day........... Not to make light of 1st world problems, but the big picture is that we represent a rather modest part of the worlds population and use the greatest percent of earth's resources, and yet most of us, (me included) whine about our 1st world problems as if the whole world is waiting with bated breath to hear or read the next tweet that comes from one of these ruling fuck tard's....... interesting times.

Welcome to DB. sorry to hear about what is happening to you. First of all, what you are going through is not rare. I have known several people who got the kundalini energy going, and had everything from massive migraine headaches to all kinds of negative experiences. Not an expert in kundalini but have had some kundalini crea experiences, and was fortunate to have non harmful ones. It almost sounds like what in zen we call "meditation sickness" which is a form of this kind of energy. I found that going outside, working in a garden. walking in the wilderness, touching the earth, the trees, helps center oneself, and kind of helps ground out the energy. If this does not help, maybe a very good acupuncturist can help balancing your energy. Our family has a good acupuncturist who has done wonders for our kids and my wife on many issues. and they know how to feel where energy is blocked, and help restore the circulation. hope you feel better soon.

Well, that sounds like a mess. sorry to hear that you are going through this. My original post was not intended to say that I didn't believe you, but until your last post, I had no idea what your experience was. don't know to much about today's qi gung, but I have heard that there is a way that older people who are trained can steal chi or energy from other beings, like water buffalo, in order to have more vitality. I have ran into at least two other people in my life that sound like your teacher. and they are controlling and manipulative, and have no soul. I suspect that they are damaged beings trying to gain power and control out of there own fear of death, of life, of being alone, or simply being seen as less than they are. wish I had a better answer for you.... When I was young and doing kenpo, I met a "master" who creeped me out right away. I later learned that he had a secret room in his dojo where he had sex with younger boys that he was teaching. This was a very strong Hispanic neighborhood, and the boys dad found out what he was doing to his son and came into the dojo with an ax and almost killed this so called "master". the teacher later served time in jail. Sometimes in order to break this kind of energy, you got to get pissed, and take action. not saying you should go after this shit hole with an ax, but your own energy is stronger than you think it is. he sounds like a bully, and bully's are insecure, and the ones i have had dealings with back down when you let them know that you are not to be messed with, but you got to really mean it. that's all I got. let us know how it works out.

well, it has been well over a week since your post. how you doing? Just my take, but doing a practice, meditation for even a year is very new. don't make it over complicated. just start by sitting and watching your breath, even when, (and especially when) the breath changes directions, from inhale to exhale and exhale to inhale. meditation moves slowly, don't get in a hurry, don't over think it. just sit every day, as if it is your job to just sit. just watch very closely, nothing special. don't worry about getting anywhere. all that shit in our brains that wants something, or wants to accomplish , or wants power, is part of what is holding us back. Just sit. You sound young, it is hard to be patient when young. (I was a complete ass hole when I way young, but that is another story), just do a little every day, sooner or later, it will all work out. cheers.

Yes, it definitely does spring cleaning. part of the fast renews damages large bowl tissue and also flushes out damaged white blood cells and lots of other junk. for me, (and this is kind of real, so hope no one is eating a meal at this point), it starts about end of day two to day three. don't go too far from a bathroom. Kind of like changing the oil in your car. LOL

Great story, and no, one cannot prove any of these "ah-ha" experiences. I relate to the energy you experienced. years ago, I was walking out of our shop on campus, just thinking of nothing, and had an experience, which cannot be described. All I can say that part of it, felt like I had been carrying 500 pounds around with me all my life, and suddenly it was gone. I was amazed how much energy we waste trying to keep up our ideas and beliefs about what we think "is". The one thing I have learned with these experiences, that for me, as amazing as that was, there is no end. no finial goal. for me, it is a never ending seeing and unfolding, and the more it happens, the more human we become, owning our humanity, not pushing away things because of fear or sadness. Happy for you.

In my experience one cannot separate energetic and physical. Had a very good tai chi teacher for about 10 years, the only person I have met that could express internal power. But sometimes people would come into the school, and be in such a poor physical condition that he made them do physical exercise to strengthen there physical bodies, because physical and energy are all one thing. Just my two cents from over 40 years of martial arts, and sitting meditation. but you are much more likely to encounter someone who can harm you physically than someone with "evil chi" doing something to you. So maybe not worry about what could happen, but focus on what is going on right now. combine some physical development like yoga, swimming. weight lifting, running, or even dance with your internal work. from my experience it all flows together. good luck

Welcome Victor. i practice weightlifting also. twice a week, and combine it with running sprints. I found that it is easy to make your muscles stronger very quickly, but in doing that, especially at your age, we sometimes harm our connective tissue, our joints. my only suggestion is to pay attention to your structure and go slow, that way your bone density will increase and your connective tissue will thicken. Also, doing yoga a couple times a week is also a great balance to weight lifting. Yoga will also help your energy move in meditation. Simple breathing into the Hara/Tanden, and just sitting and watching it come and go is also a good start to reclaim physical health. of course this kind of breathing deepens after time, and it would be good to fine a good teacher at some point. Lastly be very careful of YouTube or online videos. Some of these videos are good, but many are shit, so do your research. good luck my friend.

good to do this once in a while. i can relate.

What? no daughters of reflected light? haaaaaaaa! just say'in...........

We humans are very funny. We try to pick out ideas, or methods of thought, or even types of spirituality, label them, pigeon hole them, and point and say, "This is the only correct way to live". Most of the ideas, definitions, I have looked at in life has some good points, some not so good, but never found one method that is the tits. Most beliefs, definitions, ideas i have encountered, (and I have not even come close to reviewing all of them), are build on shaky foundations, or foundations that have gone back for thousands of years, yet we pronounce, in our hubris that "our modern human method is the best" LOL knee slapping funny. I like the idea of a tool box representing methods of thought, looking into the mystery of life. Rational thought for me, is like a hammer, it breaks stuff apart and analyses the parts. But sometimes we need sandpaper, screwdrivers, mirrors, wenches for other kinds of investigation. Finding the right tool, is part of what I call being creative.

Good to have you and your experiences. welcome. I am not an Acupuncturist, but have been doing sitting meditation for many years. starting out in Soto Zen tradition. I have had what they call in Zen, "meditation sickness" about three times during this time, and it is very unpleasantness. everything from ringing ears, to electric like saps in the body, which I found out later were acupuncture points, and also a 'roid rage kind of feeling where I was not angry, but very agitated. For me it comes from trying to hard or taking meditation to serious. I had forgotten to play with sitting. My cure, is to sit on the ground, or stand bare footed on the earth, and touching trees is also very powerful for this. I suppose it could be some kind of energy blockage due to mind disturbance, but that is just a guess. Very interesting topic, hope you find the support/help with this. good luck

I know that I am going to regret asking this, but what is "rational and logical thinking"? got lots of modern takes on this. One said, "rational is the ability to think rationally" or another that says, that "rational thinking is the ability to create good quality thoughts" what??? And of course the best for last.... "Scientific explanations are based on evidence and subject to change when new facts come to ..." Facts? like written in stone? unmovable? unchangeable? Well, hope that works out for folks.

My personal take on this, (and of course I can be full of shit), goes back to the old idea that our "self" is like the wave in the ocean. I am the wave, riding into the shore, folks surf on me and I make life more exciting, whether for good or bad. But i am also, at the very same time the ocean. Not separate, but at the same time unique. no other wave is like me in that instant. To become nihilistic and say that "you are only the ocean, your wave-ness is only an illusion ", while being true, is also not true at the same time. we humans have a tough time wrapping our heads around paradox. we were raised to believe in the Boolean Logic of our culture. Yes or No. True or False. as far as I have seen nature doesn't give a fuck about our kind of logic. LOL

I have learned that for me, having or not having goals, or just letting life flow is not a mutually exclusive thing. For me, like most humans, i have some goals, but the flip side of that, is that my goals are fluid, not written in stone. The Analogy I like to use is the river of life we all have to raft down. Sooner or later, no matter how hard we try to swim upstream, we will end up down the river of life. So i have a goal of getting down the river without hitting any rocks, so I choose a route. But my route is fluid. I am not stuck to my path, but remain flexible, because sometimes the current changes, and I don't let it get my panties in a knot. I just let the river help me down, all the while keeping my goal.

Lets start with meditation. Most folks who meditate agree universally that getting up at around 4 am and sitting is one of the best times to meditate. one of the reasons for this, is because in men, this is where our sexual energy hits a kind of peak, (morning wood). so getting up early and sitting moves this energy. As far as "lust" goes, this is just normal energy, feeling bad about natural energy is kind of a western religious puritanical idea. As far as getting horny, and then trying to force this energy somewhere else, I personally would not do that. Once the energy is there, then may as well find someone you enjoy being with and respect and have wild monkey sex. nothing wrong with any of it. Lastly, my own take on the whole " demon" thing, is that negative things are attracted to fear, insecurity, loneliness, and any number of negative aspects of our ego mind. accepting life in a non-grasping way, seems to work for me. good luck and pound away. LOL

How can thoughts be separate from pure awareness? if thoughts change, then where do thoughts come from, ? from outside awareness? then how do they arise? From my experience, I had to see that it all merge's. thoughts , awareness, everything. thoughts are awareness, not good, not bad, my body is awareness, my stubbed toe in the middle of the night, and cussing out the dog is awareness. to be inclusive of all that is. takes the so-called good and the bad as being this kind of dance. my favorite quote form someone I don't know goes like this. "when skating on thin ice, you may as well dance" Happy New Year!