interpaul

Thanks I took a look at this and it makes sense. It does suggest using an online I Ching approach is likely a bad idea for the reason it doesn't take it very seriously. I've bought a handbook and one of the original texts to study and do l like the idea noted about opening up different perspectives.

I've recently been exploring the use of the I Ching to see the relevance of this ancient text in modern times. I have found some answers very interesting and others off topic. As I step back from this I wonder if the books primary success comes from creating an alternative reading experience. It's like reading the bible in random bits over a year. The exposure to the text, even out of sequence, still communicates the messages. Although a part of me wants to be open to the divining power of the text, it is hard as a modern person to completely shut off the scientific mind. Curious how many folks on this forum have used this text and how you use this ancient text. Do you ignore messages that don't seem in alignment with what you were hoping to read?

Fa Xin, Thanks. I know what you are pointing to. I do feel the most energy when it isn't forced. I also do sense the energy within when I am calm and in the moment. I do find this practice gives me great hope when I am struggling with stress in my life. Unfortunately those are the times it is more forced and probably not the best energy. There are a lot of good lessons I am learning in these practices. I will be meeting with a respected taoist teacher in a few weeks and hope to get some additional guidance. I do feel I am searching more for healing than intense experiences but find it hard to resist pleasurable experiences when they happen spontaneously.

Fa Xin, I can definitely see the trap of chasing this energy. Last night I was wanting to see where this was going and as I stayed in that place it built up to almost orgasmic type of feelings. It then resulted in a couple hours of insomnia. Curious how long it was a crutch for you and how you let go and where it took you.

Ok Everything, I am going to push back just a little. Last night I did the microcosmic orbit for about a half hour while I was falling asleep. I focused the energy to see where it might go and it took on a feeling very similar to orgasmic energy but it just circulated in my body. Not complaining but it resulted in a couple hours of insomnia with surges of intense energy. It does make me wonder about the neurochemistry of this activation of pleasure centers. Other intense pleasurable experiences often lead to a surge in dopamine with resultant down regulation of the dopamine receptors in the brain with the long term effect of causing reduced pleasure in other areas of life. This has been reported in overuse of drugs, alcohol and pornography. Have you experienced this type of pleasure from meditation and have you found it is sustainable without causing long term emotional problems?

This gives me energy to do all the other stuff in my life and is part of a transmutation practice I am exploring. My only concern is I've found most pleasurable things in life tend to have an addictive risk if done in excess. Many of the Taoist enthusiasts online seem to promote these practices and encourage going deep into them, sort of along the lines of the comments above from Cheshire cat. This seems so safe as it is just breathing and visualization (e.g. no abuse of any senses). I've been reading the Tao te Ching lately and it seems to point more to a middle path, not one of excess, But I find the Tao very mysterious and open to interpretation. I still live in the world of duality and strive to avoid missteps on this spiritual path.

Not sure what you mean by spontaneous and not contrived. This type of meditation is intentional but the energy generated is spontaneous and wasn't expected. If that is what you are referring to I appreciate that insight.

Thanks for these encouraging words. Have you been practicing this for a long time? I found out about this stuff from reading Mantak Chia's books on Taoist sexual practices. He kept warning about the risks of doing the other practices without a foundation of the MCO. I finally decided to take that seriously and found the MCO even more powerful for focus and generating energy than the sexual practices. It seems almost too good to be true to breath and circulate energy like this without a downside.

I have been practicing the microcosmic orbit meditation for a few months and find it generates a lot of positive energy within my body. I hear again and again the value of meditation. Given the pleasurable sensations this particular meditation generates I wonder if this practice could ultimately be just another form of attachment, one that is best to release. Curious the groups take on this.

An interesting point. I don't know that my wife would like the sentiment of"casting off of excess into another being." I'd be interested in hearing how this practice plays out for you. Are you a vegetarian? Do you have a specific diet that you feel creates balance for you?

I am trying to explore that as an option. Since I came to trying this practice after someone recommended this Taoist practice it's only recently that I've come to question if it is truly in alignment with the Tao.

I only became aware of the semen retention practices after discovering these practices as a recommendation from a Taoist.

True. The question is does this fit with a practice, after the procreative years, that is balanced. It seems semen retention at its core is about pushing against the momentum of the expression of sexual energy. So far I haven't found the ability to truly channel those energies in a way that feels balanced and sustainable.