MegaMind

We are not claiming the video of John is scientific proof, replicated, peer reviewed and published in journals. By definition video is objective not subjective. A team of scientists and medical doctors were present to do their best to rule out fraud. John was stripped to his under shirt and underwear and searched with a metal detector. John was taken to a random location chosen by the researchers to give a demo. This all was captured on video.

Our other members were banned by dawei and Kar3n for their own personal issues with us. We have done our best to remain respectful here while defending ourselves, our teachers and our practice. I have not lied in this thread.

That is correct we are only here to defend ourselves, our teachers and our practice. If the attacks stop so do our responses to them. If we had the money we would buy this forum and place a moratorium on all mo Pai discussion.

Proof is evidence that compels a mind to accept it as true. As such not all evidence will convince all people, and so long as they refuse to accept something as true nothing is proven to them. The best we can do is present the evidence we do have, and hope some will come and see for themselves.

Information is transmitted from teacher to student. Jim was the top western student, and was tested to his level by John himself. Many in our group were students of Jim. In addition to this, we preserve the teachings from John that he brought back unaltered.

No this definitely is not fun for us at all.

2+2=4, this is the same in Indonesia, China, and the USA. The teachings are the same. There is only Mo Pai, and Not Mo Pai. There is no such thing as "Western Mo Pai".

If you don't like the dictionary definition of objective, take that up with the dictionary, not me.

The problem is you are making us out to be something we aren't. We aren't claiming we represent the Indonesian school, or that we have access to all 72 levels. We merely preserve what we do have, for people who are serious and want to see for themselves.

Jim was the top western student, going further than many Indonesian students even. Many in our group were students of Jim, and others of Kosta. We merely preserve what John taught them, without alteration. Nothing more and nothing less.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective 2a : of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind 2b : involving or deriving from sense perception or experience with actual objects, conditions, or phenomena

Words mean things. If you don't like the dictionary definition of a word you should take that up with the dictionary.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective 2a : of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind 2b : involving or deriving from sense perception or experience with actual objects, conditions, or phenomena

Video is by definition objective, and not subjective. John providing instruction on camera is not Jim's personal testimony.

I created a thread for us to continue our discussion because others were complaining of the thread being derailed. In the future I will not do this because of how it seems to bother you. You asked why it was so important to me and I explained this is something that has been used to attack our group with and was something we needed to defend against. It has been 4 months now, I hope sometime in the future you can move on from this.

Other individuals were claiming TaoMeow's thread was being derailed, so I created a new thread where you and I could continue our discussion. You seemed to be the core individual with this claim that you cannot learn from video. It was my hope we could finish our discussion without others interrupting however that did not come to pass, if I had a PPD it would have been different as I could have moderated the thread. I did not attack you, I merely pointed out your claim that you cannot learn from video was divorced from reality. People can and do get PhDs (in our most challenging subjects) purely from watching video instruction. It seems to me you are just upset your viewpoint was proven wrong.

Jim recorded John's instruction, and we preserve that unaltered. This is not Jim's personal testimony, but rather objectively documented on video.

Neither I nor any other member in our group are here to troll. We are here merely to defend ourselves, our practice and our teachers. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective 2a : of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind 2b : involving or deriving from sense perception or experience with actual objects, conditions, or phenomena https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/evidence_1?q=evidence the facts, signs or objects that make you believe that something is true https://www.nyclu.org/en/publications/testimony-nypds-body-worn-camera-program-new-york-city-council-committee-public-safety we have offered cautious support for the use of police body-worn cameras as a means of producing objective video evidence of officers’ actions during police encounters. https://info.verkada.com/government/ Assist in Incident Resolution: Rather than depend solely on witness testimonies, police equipped with public video surveillance footage are able to base investigations on objective video evidence of incidents. https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2019/10/09/live-updates-laquan-mcdonald-inspector-general-reports-jason-van-dyke-coverup/ As a result of the failure to properly operate dashcams, the officers forced investigators to rely on “subjective, unrecorded” oral accounts of the shooting, rather than objective video evidence. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/61ff/dd6dc7344b095f7006e9c8b689f83e7464c0.pdf objective video evidence, as opposed to subjective evidence such as eyewitness testimony, is desirable to establish what actually happened https://loevy.com/blog/breaking-journalist-attorney-respond-to-mayor-emanuels-comments-on-release-of-police-shooting-video/ when it comes to releasing the objective video evidence that could substantiate a witness’s reported description of the shooting as ‘an execution,’ the City applies a double standard.” https://www.npr.org/2017/07/21/538648337/minneapolis-police-chief-resigns-after-fatal-officer-involved-shooting They were wearing body cameras but were not recording, so we don't have that objective video evidence that a lot of people would like. https://apnews.com/285801e1387c42d1b857d6bdf5fbb968 Supporters say that recording encounters between citizens and officers reduces police violence and protects officers by providing objective video evidence.

"addon> You don't need to provide no stinkin proof. You've got old John Chang videos. yeah yeah." Anyone is free to examine the evidence we present for themselves. The proof though comes from direct first hand observation in training, and the individual has to be willing to log the hours and put in the effort to see that for themselves.

We are not a fraud, we merely provide what John taught to Jim and Kosta without alteration. We do not charge anyone anything, nor accept donations. Out of millions of practices only a small handful do anything more than placebo. If people want to see for themselves they can.

We have an art that anyone can examine the objective video evidence gathered with scientists and medical doctors present to do their best to rule out fraud. After examining that evidence they can undertake training and see the reality of the practice for themselves, no faith in anyone or anything is required. The results are such that they would change currently held paradigms about everything we believe is (and is not) true. This is a practice which could change our world.

Just FYI I and several others have purchased this product. It does not work as advertised.

Every student that seriously put effort into this training has realized the same results and experiences. It is not something we discuss here in public, for obvious reasons. In this thread I have been called a balding, homosexual pot-head that charges people for this information and lots more, of course none of this is true but it keeps being repeated. Anything we say in here in public is used as ammunition to try and discredit us.

Our interest in the practice is merely to practice something more than placebo, that we can see for ourselves the reality of.